Jim Conlin wrote:

At a dime each, it's cost over $100/ft^3. How about plastic beverage
bottles?


I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much better. I
thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed to install
them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They are
certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.


Tailgunner wrote:

Bear with me for a second.

I have been hearing about people using ping pong balls for floatation.
However, I can't find anyone who has actually done it.

It makes sense in that it will allow water to flow and not trap water in
the bilge. They should last a while and certainly easy to install.

Anyone have any first hand knowledge of doing this?

--
Tailgunner
BS#232

--
Tailgunner
BS#232

Tailgunner wrote:



: I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much better. I
: thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed to install
: them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They are
: certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.


One has to wonder what happens to the bottles if you put them in
during a chilly spring day, and then the seasons change and it's a 95
degree Summer day.

Or vice versa....if you put them in on a hot day, what happens in
September or October. Do the bottles crush some? Does that imact
flotation?


--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

Gregg Germain wrote:

Tailgunner wrote:

: I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much better. I
: thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed to install
: them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They are
: certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.

One has to wonder what happens to the bottles if you put them in
during a chilly spring day, and then the seasons change and it's a 95
degree Summer day.

Or vice versa....if you put them in on a hot day, what happens in
September or October. Do the bottles crush some? Does that imact
flotation?

Gregg, you're just paying too much attention. 8-)

I honestly don't think it would be that much of a change. Maybe if they were in
direct sunlight they "might" expand. Tell you what, I'll ask one of our scientists
here at work (WHOI) and see what they think and report back.




--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558


--
Tailgunner

Tailgunner wrote:


: Gregg Germain wrote:

: Tailgunner wrote:
:
: : I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much better. I
: : thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed to install
: : them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They are
: : certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.
:
: One has to wonder what happens to the bottles if you put them in
: during a chilly spring day, and then the seasons change and it's a 95
: degree Summer day.
:
: Or vice versa....if you put them in on a hot day, what happens in
: September or October. Do the bottles crush some? Does that imact
: flotation?

: Gregg, you're just paying too much attention. 8-)

Well you might be right about that ;^)


: I honestly don't think it would be that much of a change. Maybe if they were in
: direct sunlight they "might" expand. Tell you what, I'll ask one of our scientists
: here at work (WHOI) and see what they think and report back.

I only ask because I've seen closed, empty plastic bottles puff up in the
sunlight.



:
:
: --- Gregg
: "Improvise, adapt, overcome."
:
: Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
: Phone: (617) 496-1558
:

: --
: Tailgunner




--


--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

Try taking a plastic down to 100' under water then filling it with air
from your regulator and closing the cap. It certainly does 'puff up'
when you return it to the surface. BTW - So does a diver if they forget
to exhale on the way up 8-(

If I have an empty bottle in the back seat over a winter's night I can
hear it cracking as the car heats up and the air inside expands.

Pirate_Dave
--
In article , Gregg Germain wrote:
Tailgunner wrote:


: Gregg Germain wrote:

: Tailgunner wrote:
:
: : I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much better. I
: : thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed to install
: : them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They are
: : certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.
:
: One has to wonder what happens to the bottles if you put them in
: during a chilly spring day, and then the seasons change and it's a 95
: degree Summer day.
:
: Or vice versa....if you put them in on a hot day, what happens in
: September or October. Do the bottles crush some? Does that imact
: flotation?

: Gregg, you're just paying too much attention. 8-)

Well you might be right about that ;^)


: I honestly don't think it would be that much of a change. Maybe if they were in
: direct sunlight they "might" expand. Tell you what, I'll ask one of our scientists
: here at work (WHOI) and see what they think and report back.

I only ask because I've seen closed, empty plastic bottles puff up in the
sunlight.



:
:
: --- Gregg
: "Improvise, adapt, overcome."
:
: Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
: Phone: (617) 496-1558
:

: --
: Tailgunner

I have a friend that designs plastic bottles for a living. He says the
bottles are proof tested to three atmospheres pressure. I don't think
you could develop anywhere near that with a temp change.

Using my old thermodynamics formulas, and it's been a
while since I did so I could be wrong, but I seem to remember:
PV=nRT, and for these purposes let's throw out V, R, and n
since they don't vary a lot if at all.

So P is proportional to T, and when measuring T you have to use
absolute temp (-273 Celsius IIRC). So assume a start temp
of 32 F or 0 C (273 absolute) and a max temp of 100 F or38 C
(311 absolute), and thus a pressure differential of 311/273
or 1.14. So sorry, it's not enough to make a loud noise, just
the small crackly ones.

Matt

In article , Gregg Germain wrote:
Tailgunner wrote:


: Gregg Germain wrote:

: Tailgunner wrote:
:
: : I found a place that sells a gross at $20 ($0.07 each). Not much
better. I
: : thought about bottles (free). But the deck would have to be removed
to install
: : them. Next year I am thinking of replacing the deck so maybe. They
are
: : certainly not flammable even with the caps epoxied on.
:
: One has to wonder what happens to the bottles if you put them in
: during a chilly spring day, and then the seasons change and it's a 95
: degree Summer day.
:
: Or vice versa....if you put them in on a hot day, what happens in
: September or October. Do the bottles crush some? Does that imact
: flotation?

"Matt/Meribeth Pedersen" ) writes:

... So sorry, it's not enough to make a loud noise, just
the small crackly ones.

any idea how many freeze-thaw cycles those pop bottles can go through
before the plastic creases and splits open? do they get brittle at low
temperatures? just wondering as I don't drink soda pop and boats go
through several freeze-thaw cycles over the winter and spring in this area.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:20:55 +0000, Dave Cannell
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Isn't that just the kinks popping out from when it contracted in the
first place?

If I have an empty bottle in the back seat over a winter's night I can
hear it cracking as the car heats up and the air inside expands.

Pirate_Dave

************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I was frightened by the idea of a conspiracy that was
causing it all.
But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan,
really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?

Yup...

In article , Old Nick wrote:
On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:20:55 +0000, Dave Cannell
wrote something
......and in reply I say!:

Isn't that just the kinks popping out from when it contracted in the
first place?

If I have an empty bottle in the back seat over a winter's night I can
hear it cracking as the car heats up and the air inside expands.

Pirate_Dave

************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I was frightened by the idea of a conspiracy that was
causing it all.
But then I was terrified that maybe there was no plan,
really. Is this unpleasant mess all a mistake?

Dave Cannell wrote:

Try taking a plastic down to 100' under water then filling it with air
from your regulator and closing the cap. It certainly does 'puff up'
when you return it to the surface. BTW - So does a diver if they forget
to exhale on the way up 8-(


On our deep sumbmersible they frequently take items down and shrink them. 16oz Styrofoam
cups become doll sized. Of course we're talking DEEP submersible.

--
Tailgunner