The tasks you mention are heavy in their labor requirements. If his time is
worth anything, he's unlikely to be able to quit his day job.

This is from personal experience, at least with the wiring side. I've been
bitten several times by the immense number of hours needed to wire a control
panel or run a cable.

Roger (Every five minute task takes three hours.)

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

wrote in message
ups.com...
I suppose what I'm asking is my cousin, (an electrical engineer for a
major auto company), is getting tired of the "lunch bucket" job, and is
really addicted to boats. Sounds good so far, andyhow, he's wanting not
necessarily to quit his job but look into a paying hobby. He looks on
ebay and the like, and sees damages, or neglected cruisers going for
what sems to be a song. and is thinking of setting up a business for
not necessarily restoring but totally rebuilding boats. This is done
with about anything on the market today, from computers to major
aircraft. He saw a charity auction sell a 36 foot Chris Craft
(fiberglass) Cruiser for about $400.00 which was rather neglected, but
seemed to have a sound hull. He's thought of totally disasembling the
boat, putting in new, modern refinements re wiring, re-gelling,
re-painting, re brightening or replacing the hardware, overhaulling the
twin GM's etc, and he thinks he can do this..resell... put into show
room condition....... and make a profit.

I told him I thought it was pretty risky, because auto customizers
usually can't sell a car for more than they have in it. Well, I
suppose some can but I'm sure many can't.

Does anybody do this as a professional company?


Tim

Rodger, I was thinking the same thing, but I think he's planning on
taking it down to the bare hull and starting over!

But I deffinately agree with what you are saying. Plus a building rent
for where he is located would cost an arm and a leg. he lives in a
residential area and doesn't have enough enclosed space for the boats
he's been looking at.

I really don't see how he can come out ahead, but.....

BTW, sorry about the "double post, I tried to correct some spelling
after I hit the send key and thried to catch it on the run...LOL!

I think that another thing he's really not looking at is that the OE
MFJ's get all their stuff at contract "bargian basement" pricing.

And replacing a complete final drive could require a major sized check.

wrote:

I think that another thing he's really not looking at is that the OE
MFJ's get all their stuff at contract "bargian basement" pricing.

Weeelll...that still doesn't necessarily make it unprofitable. My last
boat was a project boat (1980 Trojan F32 flybridge sedan)...sound, but
in non-running and uninhabitable condition. I didn't gut it to the hull,
but I did replace everything on it, completely rewired it and replumbed
it, and added/upgraded a BUNCH of things...by the time I was done, the
only things I hadn't replaced were two C-318 long blocks, the Onan 6.5kw
longblock and the Raritan waterheater. I'd budgeted replacing those, but
didn't have to. I bought almost everything at retail discount--(only
the sanitation equipment at OEM price)...and paid "retail" labor rates
for almost all the work. And still came out ahead. I paid $25k for the
boat...put about $18k into her ($3500 went into a new bottom and having
everything above the waterline wetsanded and teflon coated)...sold her
for $48k. Had I been able to get her at a price that some of the
hurricane salvage boats are going for, I'd prob'ly have only had to put
$2-3k more into hull repair, which would have made it very profitable,
especially for someone who can do a lot more of the work than I was able
to do. And there will be a lot of people who will buy and restore those
boats very profitably.

The key is: find out what a particular make/model year is going for in
your neck of the woods (NADA and BUC are good starting places, but local
factors can make a big difference)...cost out EVERYTHING, worse case
scenario...put some value on your labor...then do the math to find out
whether you can do it profitably or not.

Oh...one more thing: everything has to be done to ABYC, USCG, NFPA, UL
and any other standards, or a buyer won't be able to finance it or
insure it (they'll all require a survey for a restored salvage, or even
just an older boat). So there is a major learning curve to climb.

As for a "shed" to work in...a friend in RI who's rebuilding a 38'
sailboat (he gutted it) bought and erected a huge "industrial tent"
structure on his property...ran power to it, built scaffolding, etc...I
don't know what that kind of thing costs, but it's gotta be a LOT less
than renting space.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Thanks Peggy!

those are some things to be considered.

I'm valueing all the opinions I have gotten so far.

Sounds like you did "ok"

Tim

wrote:

Thanks Peggy!

those are some things to be considered.

I'm valueing all the opinions I have gotten so far.

Sounds like you did "ok"

Yep...and I had the use of the boat for 4 years too.

There will always be old or storm damaged "project boats" available,
some which only need cosmetic work, others which need a lot more. If
you want to do this, I suggest you start by finding one you'd like to
own. Then you can take all the time you need to learn how to do it
right, have the use of the boat once you get it past a certain
point...and then decide whether to keep it or sell it and look for
another one to restore.

Fwiw, I'd do it again in heartbeat...not with the idea of making a
profit, but to have everything on a 32-38' boat for $50k that would run
$175-250k for comparable new...and with class and style too, instead
of something that looks like the inside of a refrigerator or a
fiberglass showerstall with upholstered seats.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

If you want to do this, I suggest you start by finding one you'd like to
own. Then you can take all the time you need to learn how to do it
right, have the use of the boat once you get it past a certain
point...and then decide whether to keep it or sell it and look for
another one to restore.


Thanks Peggy. I'm going to pass this thread to my cousin. It sounds
like it would be a fun venture, but I myself don't have the finances,
nor the location to pursue this notion.

I'm in S. IL. which the only good piece of water for a big cruiser is
Carlyle Lake and thats pretty small for these types of boats. I've got
an 18 ft Chris Craft runabout, and that pretty well does it for me. I
used to have a 27 ft, Chris Craft Cavalier but the old wood hull was
too much for me to keep up with. I found out that the bigger the boat,
takes the bigger the pocket! LOL!

Jerry is down on the Mississippi though, and he's been asking some
questions, and I thought I'd post here to get a mild summary.

You made some excellent points!

Tim

instead of something that looks like the inside of a refrigerator or a fiberglass showerstall with upholstered seats.

Or having an interior that looks like a cheap fishing camper...

Peggie, wasn't it a couple of years ago that you sold your boat? Things
might have changed just a little.


wrote:
Thanks Peggy!

those are some things to be considered.

I'm valueing all the opinions I have gotten so far.

Sounds like you did "ok"


Peggie Hall wrote:
Yep...and I had the use of the boat for 4 years too.


Which is a great value in itself, but not one that puts bread 7 peanut
butter on the table.


There will always be old or storm damaged "project boats" available,

Yep. Far more than the market can absorb. Most of these boats are landfill.


some which only need cosmetic work, others which need a lot more. If
you want to do this, I suggest you start by finding one you'd like to
own. Then you can take all the time you need to learn how to do it
right, have the use of the boat once you get it past a certain
point...and then decide whether to keep it or sell it and look for
another one to restore.


The problem is that a storm damaged boat will always have the insurance
claim on it's record, and will not ever be as marketable as a sistership
that was not storm damaged... plus the 2nd-hand boat market is in the
dumper right now. Everybody says "Pristine boats always sell" and that's
pretty close to true, but they don't always sell for their asking price.


Fwiw, I'd do it again in heartbeat...not with the idea of making a
profit, but to have everything on a 32-38' boat for $50k that would run
$175-250k for comparable new...and with class and style too, instead of
something that looks like the inside of a refrigerator or a fiberglass
showerstall with upholstered seats.


I enjoy having the confidence that major equipment on my boat was
properly selected & properly installed, and also knowing how it works
and where all the key hidden bits & pieces are.

But as for fixing up trashed boats & selling for a profit, I'd suggest
what you really need is the kind of salemanship that will allow you to
sell boats for a profit... period... and you should become a broker, not
a fixer-upper.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Peggie, wasn't it a couple of years ago that you sold your boat?
Things might have changed just a little.

The new AND used boat market has always been, and will always be,
cyclic...or have you forgotten that you couldn't give a boat away in the
late '80s-early '90s? By '95, the market had recovered, but there will
always be a glut of used boats 'cuz fiberglass, unlike wood, can last
forever...by 1999, 67% of all boat sales had become used boats. The
market is depressed again, but that's the boat biz. There's an old joke
among boat builders: How do you make a million $$ in the boat building
biz? Start with 2 million and get out quick.
Which is a great value in itself, but not one that puts bread 7
peanut butter on the table.

That's not why I restored it.

There will always be old or storm damaged "project boats"
available,


Yep. Far more than the market can absorb. Most of these boats are
landfill.

More of 'em than should may end up there because there are so many...
but not nearly as many as you might think belong there.


The problem is that a storm damaged boat will always have the
insurance claim on it's record, and will not ever be as marketable as
a sistership that was not storm damaged...

What "record?" Vehicles have that kind of paper trail, but boats don't.
The only thing that matters for a boat is its survey value...and if it's
properly repaired, even structural damage is immaterial.


plus the 2nd-hand boat
market is in the dumper right now.

That much is true. But it's been there before and it's recovered...it
will again. And there's a much better market for used boats in pristine
condition than for new ones...by '99, 67% of all boat sales were used
boats...that number is only gonna get higher.

Everybody says "Pristine boats
always sell" and that's pretty close to true, but they don't always
sell for their asking price.

They do if the asking price is realistic for current market conditions.
When my husband died in '92, I'd have been lucky to get more than $45k
for my 34 Sea Ray...by the time I sold her in '96, the market had
recovered...I had no trouble getting $60k.

I enjoy having the confidence that major equipment on my boat was
properly selected & properly installed, and also knowing how it works
and where all the key hidden bits & pieces are.

Except for very high end boat builders, OEM equipment selection is more
often based on price, not quality...and as for OEM installation, it's
not always done right, it's done the least expensive way. I could have
achieved the same result for about $5k less had I opted for lower
quality materials and equipment...even less than than if I could have
done more of the work myself...but I restored the boat for MY use. I
also had one of the best surveyors in the country (a close friend)
bird-dogging my every move to make sure everything was done right
according to all the standards...she wouldn't let me short-cut ANYthing!
I've said many times that I learned more about systems other than
plumbing in the 2 years I spent restoring that boat than I'd learned in
the previous 25 years.

But as for fixing up trashed boats & selling for a profit, I'd
suggest what you really need is the kind of salemanship that will
allow you to sell boats for a profit... period... and you should
become a broker, not a fixer-upper.

One really needs to be a bit of both to do it right. I could never be
a successful broker...I'm too straightforward...sellers don't want to
hear what I'd tell most of 'em they'd have to do to make their boats
worth what they THINK they're worth. And unless they did it, I couldn't
in good conscience represent 'em as anything but "project" boats.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304