I don't think it is quite ready for prime time yet but here is an
interesting idea. A small retractable Voith-Schneider drive like those
used on modern tugs. Retracts flat into the hull and when extended will
deliver thrust in any direction. http://www.spw-gmbh.de/en/hb/

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Interesting. It's amazing to watch a vessel equipped with a VS drive --
they really can go in any direction with full thrust.

I'd worry about efficiency -- the end plate is a larger problem in a small
one than in a large one, a VS is not as efficient as a propeller, and you'd
probably have to go diesel electric or diesel hydraulic in order to retract
it, and both are lossy.

Do you know what it costs?


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:JDPqb.10756$62.1728@lakeread04...
I don't think it is quite ready for prime time yet but here is an
interesting idea. A small retractable Voith-Schneider drive like those
used on modern tugs. Retracts flat into the hull and when extended will
deliver thrust in any direction. http://www.spw-gmbh.de/en/hb/

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Jim Woodward wrote:

Interesting. It's amazing to watch a vessel equipped with a VS drive --
they really can go in any direction with full thrust.

I'd worry about efficiency -- the end plate is a larger problem in a small
one than in a large one, a VS is not as efficient as a propeller, and you'd
probably have to go diesel electric or diesel hydraulic in order to retract
it, and both are lossy.

Do you know what it costs?

That's why I said it was not ready for prime time. It would be fun to
dock though. Especially with a retractable bow thruster. A pas de
bouree up to the end of the pier and with a quick piorette and a short
petit jete you are into your slip. (Tutus and leotards optional)

The web site said to contact about prices and if it were objectionable
they would let you know when the production gets above 10 in a batch.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:ghSqb.10765$62.10532@lakeread04...


Jim Woodward wrote:

Interesting. It's amazing to watch a vessel equipped with a VS drive --
they really can go in any direction with full thrust.

I'd worry about efficiency -- the end plate is a larger problem in a
small
one than in a large one, a VS is not as efficient as a propeller, and
you'd
probably have to go diesel electric or diesel hydraulic in order to
retract
it, and both are lossy.

Do you know what it costs?

That's why I said it was not ready for prime time. It would be fun to
dock though. Especially with a retractable bow thruster. A pas de
bouree up to the end of the pier and with a quick piorette and a short
petit jete you are into your slip. (Tutus and leotards optional)

The web site said to contact about prices and if it were objectionable
they would let you know when the production gets above 10 in a batch.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com


Changing the subject totally:
Raphael Semmes, in his account of the CSS Alabama, mentions on several
occasions of fitting the propeller (maybe he used the word screw, not sure)
before making steam.
Anyone have a clue what he meant.
Did they actually remove the screw and shaft when sailing. If so, how,
without stopping and sending divers down, which they obviously didn't do.
Or did they simply disengage the screw from the drive shaft so it free
wheeled, and then needed to reattach, perhaps lacking a clutching means?
Or did the shaft pivot on a u-joint near the packing gland and could be
pivoted so the screw was above the water line?
Anyone know or have other ideas?
Anyone else care?
Ray
(btw, I will definitely try Duke's in Ridgeway this Spring when in
Charleston, hope a good thing isn't being spoiled here. Can you say Wreck)

Don't sell us Southern good ol' boys or our BBQ short. The CSS Alabama
had a retractable propeller for better efficiency under sail. (Beats
the heck out of a feathering prop.) It was disconnected from the shaft
and hoisted under the fantail on a rail assembly. It could be lowered
and pinned to the shaft rather quickly.

The Alabama had several other inovations. It could change its rig at
will to disguise itself and had a retractable stack so that it could
look like a pure sailing vessel. The Alabama was built in England but I
think James Bulloch, the Confederate representative, got credit for the
ideas. At least he does around heah. :-)

BTW, Gov. Dean, I don't have a Confederate flag on my Japaneese pickup
but I do understand what you are trying to say. :-)

BF wrote:

Changing the subject totally:
Raphael Semmes, in his account of the CSS Alabama, mentions on several
occasions of fitting the propeller (maybe he used the word screw, not sure)
before making steam.
Anyone have a clue what he meant.
Did they actually remove the screw and shaft when sailing. If so, how,
without stopping and sending divers down, which they obviously didn't do.
Or did they simply disengage the screw from the drive shaft so it free
wheeled, and then needed to reattach, perhaps lacking a clutching means?
Or did the shaft pivot on a u-joint near the packing gland and could be
pivoted so the screw was above the water line?
Anyone know or have other ideas?
Anyone else care?
Ray
(btw, I will definitely try Duke's in Ridgeway this Spring when in
Charleston, hope a good thing isn't being spoiled here. Can you say Wreck)



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

You imply that I'm a yankee and I take offense.
Let it be known that my great grand daddy (several times back) was one of
Houston's heroes at San Jacinto and I do know good BBQ. Not sure which
should cause more offense.
Back to the Alabama:
HOW was it disconnected and reattached. The rail thing makes sense but the
attachment had to be under water, doesn't it? Rather quickly is somewhat
subjective, I think. Since Semmes mentions it several times, it implies that
it wasn't an easy task like shoveling several hundred pounds of coal to
raise steam. Granted it was new technology but that doesn't seem to be
Semmes focus. I don't recall him mentioning the "why" of the removable
propeller.
Ray

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:fvUqb.10776$62.3537@lakeread04...
Don't sell us Southern good ol' boys or our BBQ short. The CSS Alabama
had a retractable propeller for better efficiency under sail. (Beats
the heck out of a feathering prop.) It was disconnected from the shaft
and hoisted under the fantail on a rail assembly. It could be lowered
and pinned to the shaft rather quickly.

The Alabama had several other inovations. It could change its rig at
will to disguise itself and had a retractable stack so that it could
look like a pure sailing vessel. The Alabama was built in England but I
think James Bulloch, the Confederate representative, got credit for the
ideas. At least he does around heah. :-)

BTW, Gov. Dean, I don't have a Confederate flag on my Japaneese pickup
but I do understand what you are trying to say. :-)

BF wrote:

Changing the subject totally:
Raphael Semmes, in his account of the CSS Alabama, mentions on several
occasions of fitting the propeller (maybe he used the word screw, not
sure)
before making steam.
Anyone have a clue what he meant.
Did they actually remove the screw and shaft when sailing. If so, how,
without stopping and sending divers down, which they obviously didn't
do.
Or did they simply disengage the screw from the drive shaft so it free
wheeled, and then needed to reattach, perhaps lacking a clutching means?
Or did the shaft pivot on a u-joint near the packing gland and could be
pivoted so the screw was above the water line?
Anyone know or have other ideas?
Anyone else care?
Ray
(btw, I will definitely try Duke's in Ridgeway this Spring when in
Charleston, hope a good thing isn't being spoiled here. Can you say
Wreck)



--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:fvUqb.10776$62.3537@lakeread04...
Don't sell us Southern good ol' boys or our BBQ short. The CSS Alabama
had a retractable propeller for better efficiency under sail. (Beats
the heck out of a feathering prop.) It was disconnected from the shaft
and hoisted under the fantail on a rail assembly. It could be lowered
and pinned to the shaft rather quickly.
The HMS Warrior which is in Portsmouth had the same kind of system .When all
sail was called they would unpin the screw from the shaft and crank it up
out of the water on a special railway.
I have read someplace that it was a bit of a pain to do..

Neil Currey
Building a Dix design Pratique 35

I don't know Alabama at all, but perhaps I can shed some light:

Great Britain (first iron screw steamship, launched in Bristol, 1843, now
back in Bristol, see http://www.ss-great-britain.com/) was refitted in 1857
for the Australian trade, which required that she sail well. To accomplish
this she had a lifting screw. Perhaps Glenn should consider this for Rutu
instead of a MaxProp.

Take a propeller with a stub shaft, fore and aft. Put bearings on both
ends and a square on the forward end. Hang the bearings on a frame that can
be lifted straight up in channels.

In order to raise the propeller for sailing, you:
1) remove a short section of shaft inside the vessel.
2) slide the tailshaft forward
3) raise the frame with tackle.

To operate under power, it's the reverse, except that when sliding the
tailshaft aft, you have to engage the square on the stub shaft in a hollow
on the end of the tailshaft.

That's how it's described in the text of The Story of Brunel's SS Great
Britain, Ewan Corlett, Conway Maritime, 1990. However, a drawing by Basil
Greenhill in the same book shows a dog clutch rather than the square.

The Great Britain museum is a wonderful view into the first large ocean
going screw vessel -- it's a great story, as she was rescued from the
Falkland Islands where she rusted from 1886 until 1970.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"BF" wrote in message
...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:ghSqb.10765$62.10532@lakeread04...


Jim Woodward wrote:

Interesting. It's amazing to watch a vessel equipped with a VS
drive --
they really can go in any direction with full thrust.

I'd worry about efficiency -- the end plate is a larger problem in a
small
one than in a large one, a VS is not as efficient as a propeller, and
you'd
probably have to go diesel electric or diesel hydraulic in order to
retract
it, and both are lossy.

Do you know what it costs?

That's why I said it was not ready for prime time. It would be fun to
dock though. Especially with a retractable bow thruster. A pas de
bouree up to the end of the pier and with a quick piorette and a short
petit jete you are into your slip. (Tutus and leotards optional)

The web site said to contact about prices and if it were objectionable
they would let you know when the production gets above 10 in a batch.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com


Changing the subject totally:
Raphael Semmes, in his account of the CSS Alabama, mentions on several
occasions of fitting the propeller (maybe he used the word screw, not
sure)
before making steam.
Anyone have a clue what he meant.
Did they actually remove the screw and shaft when sailing. If so, how,
without stopping and sending divers down, which they obviously didn't do.
Or did they simply disengage the screw from the drive shaft so it free
wheeled, and then needed to reattach, perhaps lacking a clutching means?
Or did the shaft pivot on a u-joint near the packing gland and could be
pivoted so the screw was above the water line?
Anyone know or have other ideas?
Anyone else care?
Ray
(btw, I will definitely try Duke's in Ridgeway this Spring when in
Charleston, hope a good thing isn't being spoiled here. Can you say Wreck)

My sincere apologies to a fellow Southerner. :-)

All I really know about the CSS Alabama was from a Revell kit I built
back in the late '50s. Think I paid $.89 for it and saw one go for over
$600 on ebay recently. That particular model had a reputation for being
pretty accurate representation The prop had a sleeve that fit through
the stern and over the shaft. It was probably pinned from the inside
but I would guess that the real thing was a bit harder to fit.

OTOH, as you say "quickly" is a relative term. At the time 10 knots was
considered a high performance boat and 60º to the wind was close hauled
so they probably had some time before the pursuer got within cannon
range.

I would imagine that Semmes as captain of the Alabama was more concerend
with the tactics of naval warfare than the intricacies of technology.
The Alabama was not so much a hybred as a hermorphrodyte. It was both a
sailing and a steaming vessel. She was built as a commerce raider not a
ship of the line. Had she been intended for toe to toe battles she
would have been one or the other. Not both. Bringing the prop out of
the water greatly reduced drag under sail but was an additional hassle
for the skipper to deal with.

BF wrote:

You imply that I'm a yankee and I take offense.
Let it be known that my great grand daddy (several times back) was one of
Houston's heroes at San Jacinto and I do know good BBQ. Not sure which
should cause more offense.
Back to the Alabama:
HOW was it disconnected and reattached. The rail thing makes sense but the
attachment had to be under water, doesn't it? Rather quickly is somewhat
subjective, I think. Since Semmes mentions it several times, it implies that
it wasn't an easy task like shoveling several hundred pounds of coal to
raise steam. Granted it was new technology but that doesn't seem to be
Semmes focus. I don't recall him mentioning the "why" of the removable
propeller.
Ray

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:fvUqb.10776$62.3537@lakeread04...

Don't sell us Southern good ol' boys or our BBQ short. The CSS Alabama
had a retractable propeller for better efficiency under sail. (Beats
the heck out of a feathering prop.) It was disconnected from the shaft
and hoisted under the fantail on a rail assembly. It could be lowered
and pinned to the shaft rather quickly.

The Alabama had several other inovations. It could change its rig at
will to disguise itself and had a retractable stack so that it could
look like a pure sailing vessel. The Alabama was built in England but I
think James Bulloch, the Confederate representative, got credit for the
ideas. At least he does around heah. :-)

BTW, Gov. Dean, I don't have a Confederate flag on my Japaneese pickup
but I do understand what you are trying to say. :-)

BF wrote:


Changing the subject totally:
Raphael Semmes, in his account of the CSS Alabama, mentions on several
occasions of fitting the propeller (maybe he used the word screw, not

sure)

before making steam.
Anyone have a clue what he meant.
Did they actually remove the screw and shaft when sailing. If so, how,
without stopping and sending divers down, which they obviously didn't

do.

Or did they simply disengage the screw from the drive shaft so it free
wheeled, and then needed to reattach, perhaps lacking a clutching means?
Or did the shaft pivot on a u-joint near the packing gland and could be
pivoted so the screw was above the water line?
Anyone know or have other ideas?
Anyone else care?
Ray
(btw, I will definitely try Duke's in Ridgeway this Spring when in
Charleston, hope a good thing isn't being spoiled here. Can you say

Wreck)


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com





--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

I don't think it is quite ready for prime time yet but here is an
interesting idea. A small retractable Voith-Schneider drive like
those used on modern tugs. Retracts flat into the hull and when
extended will deliver thrust in any direction.
http://www.spw-gmbh.de/en/hb/

Boy, that thing takes up a BUNCH of height (27+")! (I think I have room
enough under the cockpit, though.)

And if it can only drive a 32' boat to 5 knots without overheating (if I
interpret correctly, English is not their first language), there's
something seriously wrong right now. We do 5 knots using only .2 gph,
which calculates to somewhat under 7 HP.

And 380v AC onboard isn't my favorite thing. In the power industry,
anything over 220 required pretty special precautions.

Still, when they get things smoothed out, it could be a very interesting
system.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/