Roger Derby wrote:
My reaction to belt sanders was the same as yours. I'd borrowed a
neighbor's contractor grade unit made it the 1960s and it was vicious.
Then, a few years ago, I bought a Ryobi BE-321 and it's one of my favorite
tools. Variable speed and a case that lets it be set down on the bench
upside down for use as a fixed sander.
http://www.ryobitools.com/index.php/.../tool/be321vs/

I prefer the electric block plane for making scarfs in plywood, primarily
because I think it leaves the pores open, but the belt sander is a must
have. Yes, by definition it is an abrasive stock removal tool, but the flat
sole and the variable speed allow quite small amounts to be removed.

I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for
making scarfs.

I was suggesting that the belt sander will do a good job and if your tool
budget is limited it's more generally useful than a power plane.
I've not been aware of belt sanders leaving grit in the victim and if used
with a fresh belt, they don't close pores badly.
If you worry about nasty stuff a block plane iron might encounter, you can't
build boats. You'll be planing the edge of a glass-sheathed panel soon
enough. Keep the stone handy.

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:lcpaf.3490$5F3.808@trndny03...
Roger Derby wrote:
My reaction to belt sanders was the same as yours. I'd borrowed a
neighbor's contractor grade unit made it the 1960s and it was vicious.
Then, a few years ago, I bought a Ryobi BE-321 and it's one of my
favorite
tools. Variable speed and a case that lets it be set down on the bench
upside down for use as a fixed sander.
http://www.ryobitools.com/index.php/.../tool/be321vs/

I prefer the electric block plane for making scarfs in plywood,
primarily
because I think it leaves the pores open, but the belt sander is a must
have. Yes, by definition it is an abrasive stock removal tool, but the
flat
sole and the variable speed allow quite small amounts to be removed.

I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for
making scarfs.

I've not been aware of belt sanders leaving grit in the victim and if used
with a fresh belt, they don't close pores badly.

I brush sanded wood. Seems to clean it up.
Also brush sand paper to clean it.

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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:32:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:

I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for
making scarfs.

Brian, you can't blow out the sanded area with a high pressure air
gun? I can't imagine ANY sand or grit being left in a sanded area
after a thorough blasting with an air gun using 100+ psi.

Corky Scott

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:32:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:


I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for
making scarfs.


Brian, you can't blow out the sanded area with a high pressure air
gun? I can't imagine ANY sand or grit being left in a sanded area
after a thorough blasting with an air gun using 100+ psi.

Actually, you're as likely to blow grit INTO the pores in the wood as
out of them.

I agree that both are equally likely. Both likelihoods are about zero.

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:%D2bf.233$SV1.39@trndny01...
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:32:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:


I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for
making scarfs.


Brian, you can't blow out the sanded area with a high pressure air
gun? I can't imagine ANY sand or grit being left in a sanded area
after a thorough blasting with an air gun using 100+ psi.

Actually, you're as likely to blow grit INTO the pores in the wood as
out of them.

Here's a free opinion (and I've made a lot of scarfs ...never a failure
either);

- I prefer cut pores, not pores sanded and smooshed flat. Use of a circular
saw attachment (followed by a low-angle block plane finish) or a power hand
plane is what I do in my shop. I want the epoxy to suck as deeply in the
wood as possible, and judging by how many coats it takes to keep the cut
edges looking wet (3 coats, sometimes a 4th), I'd say that the epoxy is
going SOMEWHERE where it's doing some good for the strength of the joint.
Right into the pores.

- I vacuum scarf joints with a ShopVac prior to gluing. Then I wipe down
with a damp hand towel and let it dry for 20 minutes. Then I pre-wet with 3
or 4 coats of clear epoxy, then glue it up with a mix appropriate to the
task ...straight silica thickener, or silica plus milled glass fiber.

Just my 2-bits. When it comes to scarfing, there are a lot of ways to skin
the cat. I've heard of others having scarfs pop open when bending wood
around a boat, and wonder how many scarfs 'barely held' on others. That's
why I'm careful.

Brian D



"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:%D2bf.233$SV1.39@trndny01...
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:32:49 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:


I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for making
scarfs.


Brian, you can't blow out the sanded area with a high pressure air
gun? I can't imagine ANY sand or grit being left in a sanded area
after a thorough blasting with an air gun using 100+ psi.

Actually, you're as likely to blow grit INTO the pores in the wood as out
of them.

Brian D wrote:
Here's a free opinion (and I've made a lot of scarfs ...never a failure
either);

- I prefer cut pores, not pores sanded and smooshed flat. Use of a circular
saw attachment (followed by a low-angle block plane finish) or a power hand
plane is what I do in my shop. I want the epoxy to suck as deeply in the
wood as possible, and judging by how many coats it takes to keep the cut
edges looking wet (3 coats, sometimes a 4th), I'd say that the epoxy is
going SOMEWHERE where it's doing some good for the strength of the joint.
Right into the pores.

- I vacuum scarf joints with a ShopVac prior to gluing. Then I wipe down
with a damp hand towel and let it dry for 20 minutes. Then I pre-wet with 3
or 4 coats of clear epoxy, then glue it up with a mix appropriate to the
task ...straight silica thickener, or silica plus milled glass fiber.

Just my 2-bits. When it comes to scarfing, there are a lot of ways to skin
the cat. I've heard of others having scarfs pop open when bending wood
around a boat, and wonder how many scarfs 'barely held' on others. That's
why I'm careful.

Brian D

That sounds like a very sensible approach to scarfing.

People always say that having a belt sander is a good idea, but I have a
good Bosch one that's been sitting on the shelf for years and years, just
collecting dust. I find that with my Bosch power hand plane, low-angle
block plane, 5" random orbital sander, and 7" random orbital angle sander,
that I just don't need anything else. It's very difficult to do a nice job
of anything with a belt sander ...very easy to get non-level in one
direction or the other and you can't see it happening. Maybe I haven't
found the right wood working project to match up with the belt sander?

Brian D



"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:lcpaf.3490$5F3.808@trndny03...
Roger Derby wrote:
My reaction to belt sanders was the same as yours. I'd borrowed a
neighbor's contractor grade unit made it the 1960s and it was vicious.
Then, a few years ago, I bought a Ryobi BE-321 and it's one of my
favorite tools. Variable speed and a case that lets it be set down on
the bench upside down for use as a fixed sander.
http://www.ryobitools.com/index.php/.../tool/be321vs/

I prefer the electric block plane for making scarfs in plywood, primarily
because I think it leaves the pores open, but the belt sander is a must
have. Yes, by definition it is an abrasive stock removal tool, but the
flat sole and the variable speed allow quite small amounts to be removed.

I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for making
scarfs.

Well, actually, I've demonstrated that one can get non-level quite as well
with the electric block plane and the RO sander. The plane got better after
I put a 36" steel dowel thru the hole where the edge guide would normally
mount. The eye ball detects tilt and parallel better with a long reference
line; e.g. roughing a stack of plywood edges down to an angle for scarfing.

The RO sanders tear up the edge of the disk and use up/dull the sandpaper
much faster than the belt sander in my limited experience.

The belt sander is best for curved surfaces, particularly free-form types
such as cleats, but it also does well on bevels (to epoxy glue tolerances).
As I mentioned, mine is quite happy lying on its back on the work bench with
a rubber pad to prevent too much walking around. Setting the speed low
enough for control and picking the proper grit also helps. The flat
pressure plate helps and the drum on the end is also useful for hollows.
One does have to remember that it cuts fastest where the sandpaper first
meets the wood. The trailing edge is cushioned by sawdust.

I guess I haven't used it where "level" was a goal.

Roger (Yes, I do scarfs with the plane.)

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Brian D" wrote in message
. ..
People always say that having a belt sander is a good idea, but I have a
good Bosch one that's been sitting on the shelf for years and years, just
collecting dust. I find that with my Bosch power hand plane, low-angle
block plane, 5" random orbital sander, and 7" random orbital angle sander,
that I just don't need anything else. It's very difficult to do a nice
job of anything with a belt sander ...very easy to get non-level in one
direction or the other and you can't see it happening. Maybe I haven't
found the right wood working project to match up with the belt sander?

Brian D



"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:lcpaf.3490$5F3.808@trndny03...
Roger Derby wrote:
My reaction to belt sanders was the same as yours. I'd borrowed a
neighbor's contractor grade unit made it the 1960s and it was vicious.
Then, a few years ago, I bought a Ryobi BE-321 and it's one of my
favorite tools. Variable speed and a case that lets it be set down on
the bench upside down for use as a fixed sander.
http://www.ryobitools.com/index.php/.../tool/be321vs/

I prefer the electric block plane for making scarfs in plywood,
primarily because I think it leaves the pores open, but the belt sander
is a must have. Yes, by definition it is an abrasive stock removal
tool, but the flat sole and the variable speed allow quite small amounts
to be removed.

I don't think anyone is disputing the utility of a belt sander and I
wouldn't be without one, but it's definitely not the best tool for making
scarfs.