Hi folks,

I am selling my boat plans on eBay. I have the Complete CAD cutting files
and plans for the Bruce Roberts trawler yacht 55 for sale!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4568444230

Rick B.

I trust that you willl respect the designer's intellectual property and will
convey these only to someone who has bought licence from Bruce Roberts for
the design.

"RB" wrote in message
...
Hi folks,

I am selling my boat plans on eBay. I have the Complete CAD cutting files
and plans for the Bruce Roberts trawler yacht 55 for sale!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4568444230

Rick B.

Jim:

Can you expand on this? If I buy a used book or CD from Alibris, or
e-bay (for example), am I obligated to send the author or composer a
fee?

Since RB is in possession of the BR plans, can't we assume that he has
acquired them by purchasing them from BR, and that he has therefor been
granted a license for this set of plans?

I am assuming that RB is selling the plans because he has decided that
he won't or can't build the design, i.e. that no vessel has been
constructed from this particular set of plans, or 'license'.

But even if he had built the design, how is BR any different than say,
James Michner or J.K. Rowling when it comes to the re-sale of their
'intellectual property'?

MW

On 14 Aug 2005 07:14:26 -0700, wrote:

Jim:

Can you expand on this? If I buy a used book or CD from Alibris, or
e-bay (for example), am I obligated to send the author or composer a
fee?

Since RB is in possession of the BR plans, can't we assume that he has
acquired them by purchasing them from BR, and that he has therefor been
granted a license for this set of plans?

I am assuming that RB is selling the plans because he has decided that
he won't or can't build the design, i.e. that no vessel has been
constructed from this particular set of plans, or 'license'.

But even if he had built the design, how is BR any different than say,
James Michner or J.K. Rowling when it comes to the re-sale of their
'intellectual property'?

MW

These are fair questions, reasonably put.
This is my reading. A boat designer is faced with a very limited
market. He might expect a lifetime sale of a given design at say 100
units - over perhaps 20 years. That's 5 per year. He sells a license
to make one unit - and in turn often welcomes builder questions, and
provides support - it's to some extent, a labor of love for his
'baby'. If a buyer decides not to proceed, it seems reasonable
that the designer should allow the plan to be sold on - supposing that
he has not already expended appreciable supprt time on that set of
plans. (But even that is not always permited by the terms of the
agreement - which is a contract)
But a built boat normally retires the license to build - so the plans
are sometimes then sold on, with the understanding they are 'for
reference only" but even this is questionable - a contract is a
contract.

By contrast, a book is sold as a retail commodity unit, lock, stock
and barrel - which barrel does not include the license to copy text
into a new book.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

At http://www.bruceroberts.com/ , I find the following:
WARNING - STOLEN BOAT PLANS
Beware of the outfit in Australia calling itself 'Bruce Roberts International' - they are selling outdated, incomplete, pirated & stolen boat plans ...DETAILS
NONE of my plans or cutting files or other materials may be resold ( including EBay ) without my written permission ... Bruce




"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ...
On 14 Aug 2005 07:14:26 -0700, wrote:

Jim:

Can you expand on this? If I buy a used book or CD from Alibris, or
e-bay (for example), am I obligated to send the author or composer a
fee?

Since RB is in possession of the BR plans, can't we assume that he has
acquired them by purchasing them from BR, and that he has therefor been
granted a license for this set of plans?

I am assuming that RB is selling the plans because he has decided that
he won't or can't build the design, i.e. that no vessel has been
constructed from this particular set of plans, or 'license'.

But even if he had built the design, how is BR any different than say,
James Michner or J.K. Rowling when it comes to the re-sale of their
'intellectual property'?

MW

These are fair questions, reasonably put.
This is my reading. A boat designer is faced with a very limited
market. He might expect a lifetime sale of a given design at say 100
units - over perhaps 20 years. That's 5 per year. He sells a license
to make one unit - and in turn often welcomes builder questions, and
provides support - it's to some extent, a labor of love for his
'baby'. If a buyer decides not to proceed, it seems reasonable
that the designer should allow the plan to be sold on - supposing that
he has not already expended appreciable supprt time on that set of
plans. (But even that is not always permited by the terms of the
agreement - which is a contract)
But a built boat normally retires the license to build - so the plans
are sometimes then sold on, with the understanding they are 'for
reference only" but even this is questionable - a contract is a
contract.

By contrast, a book is sold as a retail commodity unit, lock, stock
and barrel - which barrel does not include the license to copy text
into a new book.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

Because he says that , doesnt necessarily make it so !

I fail to see an issue, if the original buyer has not built the boat, in his reselling them... He paid , presumably, the price that the designer set and offered the product for sale. The seller isnt representing himself as BR, and seems to have been clear about who he is, and how he acquired them...

If he HAS used the plans, then, legalities aside, its not very ethical to then sell the plans, and probably not legal either.
"Jim Conlin" wrote in message ...
At http://www.bruceroberts.com/ , I find the following:
WARNING - STOLEN BOAT PLANS
Beware of the outfit in Australia calling itself 'Bruce Roberts International' - they are selling outdated, incomplete, pirated & stolen boat plans ...DETAILS
NONE of my plans or cutting files or other materials may be resold ( including EBay ) without my written permission ... Bruce




"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ...
On 14 Aug 2005 07:14:26 -0700, wrote:

Jim:

Can you expand on this? If I buy a used book or CD from Alibris, or
e-bay (for example), am I obligated to send the author or composer a
fee?

Since RB is in possession of the BR plans, can't we assume that he has
acquired them by purchasing them from BR, and that he has therefor been
granted a license for this set of plans?

I am assuming that RB is selling the plans because he has decided that
he won't or can't build the design, i.e. that no vessel has been
constructed from this particular set of plans, or 'license'.

But even if he had built the design, how is BR any different than say,
James Michner or J.K. Rowling when it comes to the re-sale of their
'intellectual property'?

MW

These are fair questions, reasonably put.
This is my reading. A boat designer is faced with a very limited
market. He might expect a lifetime sale of a given design at say 100
units - over perhaps 20 years. That's 5 per year. He sells a license
to make one unit - and in turn often welcomes builder questions, and
provides support - it's to some extent, a labor of love for his
'baby'. If a buyer decides not to proceed, it seems reasonable
that the designer should allow the plan to be sold on - supposing that
he has not already expended appreciable supprt time on that set of
plans. (But even that is not always permited by the terms of the
agreement - which is a contract)
But a built boat normally retires the license to build - so the plans
are sometimes then sold on, with the understanding they are 'for
reference only" but even this is questionable - a contract is a
contract.

By contrast, a book is sold as a retail commodity unit, lock, stock
and barrel - which barrel does not include the license to copy text
into a new book.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

The original post, and the EBay listing, did NOT state that a boat had not been built from the plans.
"Coz" wrote in message news:HcrNe.266986$s54.200329@pd7tw2no...
Because he says that , doesnt necessarily make it so !

I fail to see an issue, if the original buyer has not built the boat, in his reselling them... He paid , presumably, the price that the designer set and offered the product for sale. The seller isnt representing himself as BR, and seems to have been clear about who he is, and how he acquired them...

If he HAS used the plans, then, legalities aside, its not very ethical to then sell the plans, and probably not legal either.
"Jim Conlin" wrote in message ...
At http://www.bruceroberts.com/ , I find the following:
WARNING - STOLEN BOAT PLANS
Beware of the outfit in Australia calling itself 'Bruce Roberts International' - they are selling outdated, incomplete, pirated & stolen boat plans ...DETAILS
NONE of my plans or cutting files or other materials may be resold ( including EBay ) without my written permission ... Bruce




"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message ...
On 14 Aug 2005 07:14:26 -0700, wrote:

Jim:

Can you expand on this? If I buy a used book or CD from Alibris, or
e-bay (for example), am I obligated to send the author or composer a
fee?

Since RB is in possession of the BR plans, can't we assume that he has
acquired them by purchasing them from BR, and that he has therefor been
granted a license for this set of plans?

I am assuming that RB is selling the plans because he has decided that
he won't or can't build the design, i.e. that no vessel has been
constructed from this particular set of plans, or 'license'.

But even if he had built the design, how is BR any different than say,
James Michner or J.K. Rowling when it comes to the re-sale of their
'intellectual property'?

MW

These are fair questions, reasonably put.
This is my reading. A boat designer is faced with a very limited
market. He might expect a lifetime sale of a given design at say 100
units - over perhaps 20 years. That's 5 per year. He sells a license
to make one unit - and in turn often welcomes builder questions, and
provides support - it's to some extent, a labor of love for his
'baby'. If a buyer decides not to proceed, it seems reasonable
that the designer should allow the plan to be sold on - supposing that
he has not already expended appreciable supprt time on that set of
plans. (But even that is not always permited by the terms of the
agreement - which is a contract)
But a built boat normally retires the license to build - so the plans
are sometimes then sold on, with the understanding they are 'for
reference only" but even this is questionable - a contract is a
contract.

By contrast, a book is sold as a retail commodity unit, lock, stock
and barrel - which barrel does not include the license to copy text
into a new book.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK