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Sealant for Inside Hull???
Hi, We just finished putting a layer of fibreglass on our 1973 Carver
Mariner 28' (wood) below the waterline, but I am looking for a product or something (liquid) that i can pour or spray into the inside of the hull that will seal the hull from the inside, is CHEAPER than using epoxy, and will be very easy to apply. I am hoping it will settle into all of the gaps and spaces that may be present in the hull that i can't see or get too without removing the interior components of the cabin. Anyone have any suggestions? tar maybe? lol. Thanks for your help, -Jay. |
traditional treatment is 50% kerosene and 50% linseed oil. I use 50% paint thinner on my small boats instead of kerosene. The kerosenes is supposed to kill microbes as well as thin the oil so it soaks into wood, cracks, etc. You're supposed to wipe off any excess oil after 1/2 hour. No problem for me on small open plywood boats. I usually brush it on and work it into any seams, two coats on successve days. okey dokey ) writes: Hi, We just finished putting a layer of fibreglass on our 1973 Carver Mariner 28' (wood) below the waterline, but I am looking for a product or something (liquid) that i can pour or spray into the inside of the hull that will seal the hull from the inside, is CHEAPER than using epoxy, and will be very easy to apply. I am hoping it will settle into all of the gaps and spaces that may be present in the hull that i can't see or get too without removing the interior components of the cabin. Anyone have any suggestions? tar maybe? lol. Thanks for your help, -Jay. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
It should be pointed out that "encapsulation" of a wood hull should be done when first built, 3 applications of epoxy resin recommended, when the wood is clean and dry. Even then there is some disagreement on susequent absorbtion of water through abraisions, etc. But for an older boat any attempt to seal the inside of the hull also seals in dirt, microbes and moisture, all of which can cause problems and spread under the sealant. With the an older decked over wood sailboat I owned (monocoque mahogony strip) I applied a coat of thinned linseed oil with a stiff brush every second year on the advice of the builder who insisted wood needs to "breathe". It's a lot like trying to prevent rust on a car. Any aftermarket rust treatmenmt should be done at time of purchase. Otherwise annual underbody treatment with oil is effective, some think moreso. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned |
okey dokey wrote:
Hi, We just finished putting a layer of fibreglass on our 1973 Carver Mariner 28' (wood) below the waterline, but I am looking for a product or something (liquid) that i can pour or spray into the inside of the hull that will seal the hull from the inside, is CHEAPER than using epoxy, and will be very easy to apply. I am hoping it will settle into all of the gaps and spaces that may be present in the hull that i can't see or get too without removing the interior components of the cabin. Anyone have any suggestions? tar maybe? lol. Thanks for your help, -Jay. you can get a FLEXIBLE epoxy paint for about $65 per gallon. paul oman -- |
Thanks guys for all of your help. Ill keep thinking about it, maybe
flexible apoxy paint. How long do you think the hull will last if i encapsulate it from now? are we talking a year, 5 years, 10? -Jay On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:49:22 -0500, okey dokey wrote: Hi, We just finished putting a layer of fibreglass on our 1973 Carver Mariner 28' (wood) below the waterline, but I am looking for a product or something (liquid) that i can pour or spray into the inside of the hull that will seal the hull from the inside, is CHEAPER than using epoxy, and will be very easy to apply. I am hoping it will settle into all of the gaps and spaces that may be present in the hull that i can't see or get too without removing the interior components of the cabin. Anyone have any suggestions? tar maybe? lol. Thanks for your help, -Jay. |
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:59:35 -0500, okey dokey
wrote: Thanks guys for all of your help. Ill keep thinking about it, maybe flexible apoxy paint. How long do you think the hull will last if i encapsulate it from now? are we talking a year, 5 years, 10? Hi Probably best not to encapsulate on the inside, it may need to dry out from the inside to stop rot. Why was it encapsulated on the outside? Also is it lying in salt water or fresh, and does any rainwater leak into the bilges or are they dry? cheers, Pete. |
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:49:22 -0500, okey dokey
wrote: Hi, We just finished putting a layer of fibreglass on our 1973 Carver Mariner 28' (wood) below the waterline, but I am looking for a product or something (liquid) that i can pour or spray into the inside of the hull that will seal the hull from the inside, is CHEAPER than using epoxy, and will be very easy to apply. I am hoping it will settle into all of the gaps and spaces that may be present in the hull that i can't see or get too without removing the interior components of the cabin. Anyone have any suggestions? tar maybe? lol. Thanks for your help, -Jay. Why do you think that you could goober something on the inside of the boat to seal it? The best thing you could do with this boat is to give it to someone who has the time, money and knowledge to properly care for it. Poorly considered fiberglass jobs on wooden boats kill them. Your "repair" technique is almost certainly bound to fail. You don't solve a problem by covering it up. Your boat most likely will begin to have significant rot problems in a short time. (If it does not already.) In any case, you have certainly destroyed the value of the boat to anyone but the most ill-informed. |
Hi
I will back up the doubts --- my experience is that it is a huge trouble, the exact thing you shuld not do, an aproach no one with just a bit experience would show , one layer of glasfiber and only covering the bottom is not good you simply are asking for trouble and it don't make it better looking for CHEAP means. If you use polyester to save an old wooden hull you shuld not make it into a patchwork you shuld cover it all, you must make the glasfiber stronger than the old hull ,that's the only way, if you doubt try look around and find a boat where one layer just covering the bottom have worked , beside the attitude to make it CHEAP will only produce a CHEAP boat something you never will be pleased with, a cheap repair will bring nothing but vorry and I am sorry to say, I never seen covering just the bottom, ever had brought anything but vaste of money and time. |
Okay, how much do you think it would cost to replank the hull? all
planks? The reason we did the outside is for our peace of mind. you see, when we got the boat there were some holes in the hull about a foot to two feet long and about 1/2 foot wide. We figured that it would be easier to patch the holes instead of replanking the whole thing.. we cut around it untill we got to good wood (no rot) \, then made wood patches (1/2" planks cut to size) that fit there and used epoxy and woodflour putty to glue them in place. I know this is supposed to be strong enough but my father had his doubts so we put one layer on just incase there was some small hole we had overlooked, trying to "cover our asses" (no pun intended). I am against putting the sealant inside the hull because i feel that what we have done is enough but he is insisting so i posted the question. The boat is in fresh water, on dry dock now for a year and a half, and some water does get in the bilge via a leaky deck when it rains but the plug is out of the hull and the water drains as fast as it enters. fixing the deck is the next chore. Last time i was at the boat (last october) we had gotten rid of all of the rot damage and had patched where it had been via method above. As you can tell we are first time boatworkers learning as we are going and seeing as we picked the boat up for 2000 it seemed a pretty cheap boat to learn on. so... saying that, please..... ANY suggestions anyone has about the hull and also the upcoming fixing of the deck are welcome and appreciated. I will have pictures up on a website within the next month for anyone interested seeing just what i am talking about. Thank you very much. -Jason. On 2 Apr 2005 05:56:54 -0800, wrote: Hi I will back up the doubts --- my experience is that it is a huge trouble, the exact thing you shuld not do, an aproach no one with just a bit experience would show , one layer of glasfiber and only covering the bottom is not good you simply are asking for trouble and it don't make it better looking for CHEAP means. If you use polyester to save an old wooden hull you shuld not make it into a patchwork you shuld cover it all, you must make the glasfiber stronger than the old hull ,that's the only way, if you doubt try look around and find a boat where one layer just covering the bottom have worked , beside the attitude to make it CHEAP will only produce a CHEAP boat something you never will be pleased with, a cheap repair will bring nothing but vorry and I am sorry to say, I never seen covering just the bottom, ever had brought anything but vaste of money and time. |
Hi
I think you must realise that now you started with polyester that you now have to do the full job, that will also make any problem with the deck much easyer to fix. ---- Seen loads of old boats saved with various glasfiber treadments but, those where the owner are satisfied are allway\s these where the intire hull plus deck in one shall are covered with enough resin to make the new hull stronger than the old. Sorry but this is how it is, any one who only done the bottom ,after a year start complain that the glasfiber start going lose, start complain that to repair that all the glasfiber done a few years ago have to be taken off again so, please consider what you will gain doing the lot once and for all, as when done and done right you have a boat that will last . But then the new layers need to be "stronger than the old boat", ---- beside epoxy are more expensive, you can cover much more with glasfiber and resin and once the intire hull is covered you have the boat you want, not one that need patch after patch. |
okey dokey wrote:
Okay, how much do you think it would cost to replank the hull? all planks? The reason we did the outside is for our peace of mind. you see, when we got the boat there were some holes in the hull about a foot to two feet long and about 1/2 foot wide. We figured that it would be easier to patch the holes instead of replanking the whole thing.. we cut around it untill we got to good wood (no rot) \, then made wood patches (1/2" planks cut to size) that fit there and used epoxy and woodflour putty to glue them in place. I know this is supposed to be strong enough but my father had his doubts so we put one layer on just incase there was some small hole we had overlooked, trying to "cover our asses" (no pun intended). I am against putting the sealant inside the hull because i feel that what we have done is enough but he is insisting so i posted the question. The boat is in fresh water, on dry dock now for a year and a half, and some water does get in the bilge via a leaky deck when it rains but the plug is out of the hull and the water drains as fast as it enters. fixing the deck is the next chore. Last time i was at the boat (last october) we had gotten rid of all of the rot damage and had patched where it had been via method above. As you can tell we are first time boatworkers learning as we are going and seeing as we picked the boat up for 2000 it seemed a pretty cheap boat to learn on. so... saying that, please..... ANY suggestions anyone has about the hull and also the upcoming fixing of the deck are welcome and appreciated. I will have pictures up on a website within the next month for anyone interested seeing just what i am talking about. Thank you very much. -Jason. On 2 Apr 2005 05:56:54 -0800, wrote: ------------- HELLO keep in mind the wood expands and contracts based on moisture and epoxy or polyester resin expands and contracts due to temp. The two will work against each other unless you completely encase the wood with the resin thus keeping all moisture away from the wood. Also - I suggest a flexible epoxy so that it can 'move' with the wood. paul oman progressive epoxy polymers |
"Paul Oman" wrote in message ... okey dokey wrote: Okay, how much do you think it would cost to replank the hull? all planks? The reason we did the outside is for our peace of mind. you see, when we got the boat there were some holes in the hull about a foot to two feet long and about 1/2 foot wide. We figured that it would be easier to patch the holes instead of replanking the whole thing.. we cut around it untill we got to good wood (no rot) \, then made wood patches (1/2" planks cut to size) that fit there and used epoxy and woodflour putty to glue them in place. I know this is supposed to be strong enough but my father had his doubts so we put one layer on just incase there was some small hole we had overlooked, trying to "cover our asses" (no pun intended). I am against putting the sealant inside the hull because i feel that what we have done is enough but he is insisting so i posted the question. The boat is in fresh water, on dry dock now for a year and a half, and some water does get in the bilge via a leaky deck when it rains but the plug is out of the hull and the water drains as fast as it enters. fixing the deck is the next chore. Last time i was at the boat (last october) we had gotten rid of all of the rot damage and had patched where it had been via method above. As you can tell we are first time boatworkers learning as we are going and seeing as we picked the boat up for 2000 it seemed a pretty cheap boat to learn on. so... saying that, please..... ANY suggestions anyone has about the hull and also the upcoming fixing of the deck are welcome and appreciated. I will have pictures up on a website within the next month for anyone interested seeing just what i am talking about. Thank you very much. -Jason. On 2 Apr 2005 05:56:54 -0800, wrote: ------------- HELLO keep in mind the wood expands and contracts based on moisture and epoxy or polyester resin expands and contracts due to temp. The two will work against each other unless you completely encase the wood with the resin thus keeping all moisture away from the wood. Also - I suggest a flexible epoxy so that it can 'move' with the wood. paul oman progressive epoxy polymers Hi, My boat is fully fiberglassed over wood. The job was done back in the mid 80's and surveyed/sounded well over the entire hull both below and above the water line. What I have heard....there are only two good ways to glass an older wood boat. *C-Flex....process of rubber mastic to the wood, large quantity of fiber rods run the length of the boat and then glassed *Repair the original wood planking and remove all paint, add 1/2" new marine grade plywood at 45 degree to keel. Add fiberglass....at least 3 layers. No one I have spoken to advised glassing both sides of the planking. The wood needs to breathe and be exposed to air flow. I have been told that covering both sides normally results in rot. I have also been told to add salt to the bilge water if boat is kept in fresh water. The other issue that came up several times....if you have chosen to directly fiberglass over the original planking...then be prepared for the fiberglass letting go of the wood due to the oil in the painted wood (even though sanded, or remove) This of course is not good and can lead to a sunken boat. Good luck, Marshall |
MarshallE wrote:
"Paul Oman" wrote in message ... okey dokey wrote: Okay, how much do you think it would cost to replank the hull? all planks? The reason we did the outside is for our peace of mind. you see, when we got the boat there were some holes in the hull about a foot to two feet long and about 1/2 foot wide. We figured that it would be easier to patch the holes instead of replanking the whole thing.. we cut around it untill we got to good wood (no rot) \, then made wood patches (1/2" planks cut to size) that fit there and used epoxy and woodflour putty to glue them in place. I know this is supposed to be strong enough but my father had his doubts so we put one layer on just incase there was some small hole we had overlooked, trying to "cover our asses" (no pun intended). I am against putting the sealant inside the hull because i feel that what we have done is enough but he is insisting so i posted the question. The boat is in fresh water, on dry dock now for a year and a half, and some water does get in the bilge via a leaky deck when it rains but the plug is out of the hull and the water drains as fast as it enters. fixing the deck is the next chore. Last time i was at the boat (last october) we had gotten rid of all of the rot damage and had patched where it had been via method above. As you can tell we are first time boatworkers learning as we are going and seeing as we picked the boat up for 2000 it seemed a pretty cheap boat to learn on. so... saying that, please..... ANY suggestions anyone has about the hull and also the upcoming fixing of the deck are welcome and appreciated. I will have pictures up on a website within the next month for anyone interested seeing just what i am talking about. Thank you very much. -Jason. On 2 Apr 2005 05:56:54 -0800, wrote: ------------- HELLO keep in mind the wood expands and contracts based on moisture and epoxy or polyester resin expands and contracts due to temp. The two will work against each other unless you completely encase the wood with the resin thus keeping all moisture away from the wood. Also - I suggest a flexible epoxy so that it can 'move' with the wood. paul oman progressive epoxy polymers Hi, My boat is fully fiberglassed over wood. The job was done back in the mid 80's and surveyed/sounded well over the entire hull both below and above the water line. What I have heard....there are only two good ways to glass an older wood boat. *C-Flex....process of rubber mastic to the wood, large quantity of fiber rods run the length of the boat and then glassed *Repair the original wood planking and remove all paint, add 1/2" new marine grade plywood at 45 degree to keel. Add fiberglass....at least 3 layers. No one I have spoken to advised glassing both sides of the planking. The wood needs to breathe and be exposed to air flow. I have been told that covering both sides normally results in rot. I have also been told to add salt to the bilge water if boat is kept in fresh water. The other issue that came up several times....if you have chosen to directly fiberglass over the original planking...then be prepared for the fiberglass letting go of the wood due to the oil in the painted wood (even though sanded, or remove) This of course is not good and can lead to a sunken boat. Good luck, Marshall --------- seems like using polyester resin on wood often fails (disbonds) in about 8-12 years - that is my personal experience and that of my customers. Think one must use epoxy and not polyester resin for long bond life. paul oman |
We used epoxy resin, not polyester. dont worry On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:50:59 GMT, Paul Oman wrote: MarshallE wrote: "Paul Oman" wrote in message ... okey dokey wrote: Okay, how much do you think it would cost to replank the hull? all planks? The reason we did the outside is for our peace of mind. you see, when we got the boat there were some holes in the hull about a foot to two feet long and about 1/2 foot wide. We figured that it would be easier to patch the holes instead of replanking the whole thing.. we cut around it untill we got to good wood (no rot) \, then made wood patches (1/2" planks cut to size) that fit there and used epoxy and woodflour putty to glue them in place. I know this is supposed to be strong enough but my father had his doubts so we put one layer on just incase there was some small hole we had overlooked, trying to "cover our asses" (no pun intended). I am against putting the sealant inside the hull because i feel that what we have done is enough but he is insisting so i posted the question. The boat is in fresh water, on dry dock now for a year and a half, and some water does get in the bilge via a leaky deck when it rains but the plug is out of the hull and the water drains as fast as it enters. fixing the deck is the next chore. Last time i was at the boat (last october) we had gotten rid of all of the rot damage and had patched where it had been via method above. As you can tell we are first time boatworkers learning as we are going and seeing as we picked the boat up for 2000 it seemed a pretty cheap boat to learn on. so... saying that, please..... ANY suggestions anyone has about the hull and also the upcoming fixing of the deck are welcome and appreciated. I will have pictures up on a website within the next month for anyone interested seeing just what i am talking about. Thank you very much. -Jason. On 2 Apr 2005 05:56:54 -0800, wrote: ------------- HELLO keep in mind the wood expands and contracts based on moisture and epoxy or polyester resin expands and contracts due to temp. The two will work against each other unless you completely encase the wood with the resin thus keeping all moisture away from the wood. Also - I suggest a flexible epoxy so that it can 'move' with the wood. paul oman progressive epoxy polymers Hi, My boat is fully fiberglassed over wood. The job was done back in the mid 80's and surveyed/sounded well over the entire hull both below and above the water line. What I have heard....there are only two good ways to glass an older wood boat. *C-Flex....process of rubber mastic to the wood, large quantity of fiber rods run the length of the boat and then glassed *Repair the original wood planking and remove all paint, add 1/2" new marine grade plywood at 45 degree to keel. Add fiberglass....at least 3 layers. No one I have spoken to advised glassing both sides of the planking. The wood needs to breathe and be exposed to air flow. I have been told that covering both sides normally results in rot. I have also been told to add salt to the bilge water if boat is kept in fresh water. The other issue that came up several times....if you have chosen to directly fiberglass over the original planking...then be prepared for the fiberglass letting go of the wood due to the oil in the painted wood (even though sanded, or remove) This of course is not good and can lead to a sunken boat. Good luck, Marshall --------- seems like using polyester resin on wood often fails (disbonds) in about 8-12 years - that is my personal experience and that of my customers. Think one must use epoxy and not polyester resin for long bond life. paul oman |
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