On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:10:01 -0500, DougC
wrote:

Recently I have gotten the urge to build a small rowing boat. The size
would be 15 feet or less, as I want it car-toppable.

I like the looks of the wineglass-transom rowing boats, but so far
haven't seen anything that quite matches what I think I'd want.

This web page shows one example of something that is /somewhat/ similar
to what I'd like:
http://www.clcboats.com/boatbuilding_classes/59.html
-although what I want differs greatly from this.

I may eventually hang a very small engine on it, but only 2 or 3 hp or so.

---------

One question I have is if the individual strips/planks usually change in
width from one end to the other. On most boats it appears they do not,
but on a few (such as the one linked above) it looks like they do.


Another matter I've noticed is that boats using this "strip"
construction are always wood. I would think that I would rather use
welded aluminum for easier maintenance, but I cannot find any commercial
or amateur boat manufacturer using this method for these plank-style
boats. The aluminum boats all look like the plywood boats -- using large
fairly-flat pieces with simple curves.
.....
Is there some reason that strips of aluminum cannot be joined this way?
-Aside from requiring welding a lot of thin pieces of aluminum, that is.


Lastly if there's an online site that shows photos of the different
types of boats, it'd be real nice. What other sites seem to call a skiff
or a dory, this page calls a yawl.
~

For what you are talking about - a 15 ft. boat, you are looking at a
massive amount of labor to build a welded "planked" boat.

In addition, if you are going to weld it, with any chance of having a
decent looking boat, you are going to be using a substantially
stronger and heavier construction then the stamped out aluminum boats,
like the Australian "Tinny" dinghy.

"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On 7/22/2010 7:50 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Welded aluminum boats have several notable advantages - durability,
reasonable weight etc., but people use as big panels as possible, which
leads to cylinder hulls or hard chines.

Brian W

On vr, 23 jul 2010 19:01:47 brian whatcott
) wrote:
On 7/22/2010 7:50 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Welded aluminum boats have several notable advantages - durability,
reasonable weight etc., but people use as big panels as possible, which
leads to cylinder hulls or hard chines.

But there are exeptions: http://tinyurl.com/277wo9y only a drawing
though and no price, but the site has photo's of other aluminum models.

--
Richard
e-mail: vervang/replace invalid door/with NL.net

On vr, 23 jul 2010 19:01:47 brian whatcott
) wrote:

Welded aluminum boats have several notable advantages - durability,
reasonable weight etc., but people use as big panels as possible, which
leads to cylinder hulls or hard chines.

And a 4 ft larger sailing one:
http://www.mlvsloepen.nl/aluminium-sloepen/mlv-57
(8 year old daughter sailed yesterday in an electric driven "vlet" and
is very enthousiast about it ;-) )

--
Richard
e-mail: vervang/replace invalid door/with NL.net

On 7/22/2010 7:50 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

....
"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?


The main reason is just to make it look nice: I like the look of the
shape of the plank hulls, but also like the zero-maintenance aspect of
aluminum.

Doing what I want would involve more labor than typical welded-aluminum
boats--but for a leisure/hobby project with no pressing schedule for
completion, that's not really a "cost" as such.

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?


Mainly it's that I think I could do a better job building with metal
than with wood or composite.

People getting into this probably tend to choose whatever method they
are most-familiar with, and for most people that's woodworking, because
they have accumulated some tools for that to do around-the-house jobs. I
have nearly no woodworking tools, but a fairly big amount of
metal-working and welding equipment.
~

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:12:44 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 7/22/2010 7:50 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

....
"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?


The main reason is just to make it look nice: I like the look of the
shape of the plank hulls, but also like the zero-maintenance aspect of
aluminum.

Doing what I want would involve more labor than typical welded-aluminum
boats--but for a leisure/hobby project with no pressing schedule for
completion, that's not really a "cost" as such.

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?


Mainly it's that I think I could do a better job building with metal
than with wood or composite.

People getting into this probably tend to choose whatever method they
are most-familiar with, and for most people that's woodworking, because
they have accumulated some tools for that to do around-the-house jobs. I
have nearly no woodworking tools, but a fairly big amount of
metal-working and welding equipment.
~

Doing what you want to do is always a valid reason, but...

Assuming a 15 ft. boat you are probably looking at something like
1/16" skin, or thinner. Try welding two narrow 15 ft. lengths of
0.062", or thinner aluminum edge to edge and see how you do?

Yes, you could use thicker material and you could use interior
framing, as is commonly done in metal boat building, but then the
thing gets heavier, perhaps to the point that it becomes impractical.

There is an alternative but how practical it is I'm not sure. Use some
sort of temporary backing strip - copper bar comes to mind - formed to
fit and clamped behind each strake. then TIG it using the correct wire
and gas mix.

To be frank, talking about "maintenance" on a 15 ft. boat is somewhat
over kill. I've seen wooden 15 ft. boats that lasted for years and
years with no maintenance whatsoever. I used an 18 ft. dory once that
had been build by the present owner's father and was probably 20 years
old. A coat of barn paint every few years, replacing the "false keel"
when it got too broken up, and re-swelling it each spring was the only
maintenance it ever had.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Doug,
Aluminum is not maintenance free. In fact, it is exactly the opposite. Aluminum is extraordinarily reactive in water, both
chemically and electrically. If you really want a viable challenge in metal boat building, consider an alloy of copper based
stainless steel. There are several alloys to choose from. The advantages are that no painting is required ever, not even in salt
water and nothing grows on them. I know of a couple of commercial fishing vessels that were made in Nova Scotia back in the 70's.
They very successful, but expensive. The same challenges exist in construction as aluminum with a few more added, but the result
would be both unique and viable.
Steve

"DougC" wrote in message ...
On 7/22/2010 7:50 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

....
"Thinking outside the box" seems to be all the rage these days but to
be useful it really needs to include some consideration of "Why didn't
anyone else think of this bright idea"?


The main reason is just to make it look nice: I like the look of the shape of the plank hulls, but also like the
zero-maintenance aspect of aluminum.

Doing what I want would involve more labor than typical welded-aluminum boats--but for a leisure/hobby project with no pressing
schedule for completion, that's not really a "cost" as such.

And, finally, what would be the advantage of a welded aluminum, 15 ft.
boat over a wooden or fiberglass boat of the same size?


Mainly it's that I think I could do a better job building with metal than with wood or composite.

People getting into this probably tend to choose whatever method they are most-familiar with, and for most people that's
woodworking, because they have accumulated some tools for that to do around-the-house jobs. I have nearly no woodworking tools,
but a fairly big amount of metal-working and welding equipment.
~

On 7/25/2010 4:18 AM, Steve Lusardi wrote:
Doug,
Aluminum is not maintenance free. In fact, it is exactly the opposite.
Aluminum is extraordinarily reactive in water, both chemically and
electrically.

Ummm, what is this maintenance you speak of?
I've looked at three different (unpainted) aluminum canoe manufacturing
websites, and all three said aluminum boat storage requirements are
minimal--they can be stored uncovered & upside down outside, as they are
/unaffected/ by weathering. The only necessary maintenance mentioned was
to rinse the boat off after salt-water use.... but as I said, I'm about
500 miles from the nearest ocean.

Adding a chassis-grounded electrical system or using them in salt water
might change the maintenance concerns, but I won't be doing either of
those things.

If you really want a viable challenge in metal boat
building, consider an alloy of copper based stainless steel. There are
several alloys to choose from. The advantages are that no painting is
required ever, not even in salt water and nothing grows on them.

None of the aluminum canoes I've ever seen were painted either. Or I
suppose--I just assumed that the painted ones weren't aluminum.... but
through the years, I know I've seen a LOT of canoes that were left
unpainted.

Anyway--I don't have the plasma cutter to cut stainless metal, and
stainless sheet + rod would probably cost several times what typical
sheet aluminum would.

~

Richards recommendation at this site looks interesting.

http://www.mlvsloepen.nl/aluminium-sloepen/mlv-57 A refresher course
in Dutch, might help things along.

Have you thought of "forging" a hull? Have the male, and female molds
made out of almost solid oak, maybe pad with felt, bury it partly in
the driveway with your aluminum between them, and drive your Hummer,
or 18 wheeler over it.

You seem to enjoy thinking outside the box, Some kind of experiment
to alleviate splits, and cracks will need to be conducted.I used to
put sheets of plastic over molds in the oven to make model airplane
canopies. same idea.

I really like the looks of the " http://www.mlvsloepen.nl/aluminium-sloepen/mlv-57
" rig. Super smooth transom welding. Communicate with them, and see
what they say.

Den
48YF EAGLE

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 01:55:26 -0700 (PDT), den wrote:

Richards recommendation at this site looks interesting.

http://www.mlvsloepen.nl/aluminium-sloepen/mlv-57 A refresher course
in Dutch, might help things along.

Have you thought of "forging" a hull? Have the male, and female molds
made out of almost solid oak, maybe pad with felt, bury it partly in
the driveway with your aluminum between them, and drive your Hummer,
or 18 wheeler over it.

You seem to enjoy thinking outside the box, Some kind of experiment
to alleviate splits, and cracks will need to be conducted.I used to
put sheets of plastic over molds in the oven to make model airplane
canopies. same idea.

I really like the looks of the " http://www.mlvsloepen.nl/aluminium-sloepen/mlv-57
" rig. Super smooth transom welding. Communicate with them, and see
what they say.

Den
48YF EAGLE


I've always felt that "explosive forming" was the way to go. A mold,
sheet of metal and a stick of dynamite and BOOM, a new boat :-)

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)