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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I
want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Dec 8, 9:03*am, mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? *I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. *Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? *I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. * I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike Colloidal silica and microballoons aren't the same thing. Colloidal silica will be harder to sand when cured. Microballoons are a lighter filler. As long as you give the first application of epoxy a wipe and a bit of a sanding before you lay on the glass tape, it will bond. -m |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Dec 8, 12:18*pm, max camirand wrote:
On Dec 8, 9:03*am, mx wrote: Thanks, Mike Colloidal silica and microballoons aren't the same thing. Colloidal silica will be harder to sand when cured. Microballoons are a lighter filler. presumably microballons are hollow, so the fillet is weaker with them? As long as you give the first application of epoxy a wipe and a bit of a sanding before you lay on the glass tape, it will bond. It's chilly here this week (Seattle) and my little garage heater is overmatched, so after 24 hours, the first pour will probably be just hard enough to remove the clamps, so still pretty green. I can probably give it a solvent wipe, but not sure about sanding at that stage. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical. Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured. Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a totally cured epoxy surface. You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will apply. A small right angle sander with 24 grit discs will be your friend for this job. BTDT, forget the T-Shirt. Good luck. BTW, micro-balloons as a filler will do the job, especially when you lay a piece of glass tape over it. Lew |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Dec 8, 12:28*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical. Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured. Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a totally cured epoxy surface. You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will apply. The premade glass parts are old (one is "new" but was made at least 6 months ago). Their surfaces to be bonded are fairly rough, so should give a half-way decent mechanical bond. The glass tape is to insure that the load is carried out over a large area of the old hull, since its layup is not terribly thick. But since I'm considering using 2 different epoxies for the fillet and new cloth reinforcement, i was uncertain if they might be incompatible in forming chemical bonds between the two new layers, or if it could be assumed that any two common epoxies would stick to each other chemically if the first layer is only partially cured. Thanks, Mike |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike You have gotten good answers, but one thing was not covered. Most Epoxies blush to some extent. If you don't sand both parts, then at least wash them well. You can actually use a detergent and clean water rinse. Matt Colie |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:51:47 -0800 (PST), mx wrote:
On Dec 8, 12:28*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote: wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? There are two (2) types of bonding, chemical and mechanical. Chemical bonding occurs when a follow up layer of resin is applied over an epoxy surface that has not totally cured. Mechanical bonding occurs when a layer of epoxy is applied over a totally cured epoxy surface. You appear to be describing old work, thus mechanical bonding will apply. The premade glass parts are old (one is "new" but was made at least 6 months ago). Their surfaces to be bonded are fairly rough, so should give a half-way decent mechanical bond. The glass tape is to insure that the load is carried out over a large area of the old hull, since its layup is not terribly thick. But since I'm considering using 2 different epoxies for the fillet and new cloth reinforcement, i was uncertain if they might be incompatible in forming chemical bonds between the two new layers, or if it could be assumed that any two common epoxies would stick to each other chemically if the first layer is only partially cured. Thanks, Mike Essentially "epoxy" is the same stuff, no matter where it comes from. Certainly various sellers modify their product for some specific purpose but basically they are all epoxy. So they will stick to each other. Sand the old layer with a coarse sanding disk, wipe with acetone and have at it. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
"mx" wrote in message
... Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Bob La Londe wrote:
"mx" wrote in message ... Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to. Most poly-type plastics, duct tape, waxed paper, Elmer's glue, White Rain Hair spray (PVA), etc. Things I often use as mold release agents. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m... Bob La Londe wrote: "mx" wrote in message ... Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to. Most poly-type plastics, duct tape, waxed paper, Elmer's glue, White Rain Hair spray (PVA), etc. Things I often use as mold release agents. I'll have to remember that hair spray one. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
mx wrote:
Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com -- |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 07:37:38 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote: "mx" wrote in message ... Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to. And some things it doesn't really stick to at all. I have plastic containers I've been mixing small batches of epoxy in for years. I let the remaining epoxy in them cure comepletely and then hold the container upside down over a wastebasket and flex it. All of the epoxy pops right out, leaving a completely clean-as-new container. I need some of those. I have been using plastic jars left over from other things, and I just wind up throwing them away with each project. Been thinking about getting some big bags of plastic beer cups for it since they are so cheap. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
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do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
|
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote:
In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 09:14:01 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 07:37:38 -0700, "Bob La Londe" wrote: "mx" wrote in message ... Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! There are not many things epoxy doesn't stick to. And some things it doesn't really stick to at all. I have plastic containers I've been mixing small batches of epoxy in for years. I let the remaining epoxy in them cure comepletely and then hold the container upside down over a wastebasket and flex it. All of the epoxy pops right out, leaving a completely clean-as-new container. I need some of those. I have been using plastic jars left over from other things, and I just wind up throwing them away with each project. Been thinking about getting some big bags of plastic beer cups for it since they are so cheap. I've been using cheap plastic mixing bowls. The cheapest seem to be the best as they are made from a flimsy, flexible, material that is easy to remove the hardened epoxy from. I also use paper coffee cups for small batches - throwaway containers... Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Mixing containers
I bought 5 qt poly containers from a local plastic mfg house that made them for the food industry in lots of 200 pcs. Smaller sizes (1 OX thru 32 OZ) were plastic coated papercups purchased in sleeves of 100 pcs from a restaurant supply house. Paint mixing sticks from Home Depot finished the job. A Jiffy Mixer chucked up in a drill can't be beat for larger mixing jobs. Lew |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 11:06:26 -0500, I am Tosk
wrote: Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? I prefer micro fibers for anything structural. They are tough to sand but very strong. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:37:23 -0600, cavelamb
wrote: I mix in paper bowls - and paper plates for Bondo. I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
"Wayne.B" wrote: I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing. Especially when a 30 Lb (4 cubic ft) bag of micro-balloons is less than $25. Lew |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:37:23 -0600, cavelamb wrote: I mix in paper bowls - and paper plates for Bondo. I hope you're not using the bondo on a boat. I've seen some disasters from that. Epoxy and micro baloons are *much* better for fairing. No, not for parts boat or aircraft themselves. But I do use it for tooling. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
In article ,
says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote:
In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
In article ,
says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 14:18:37 -0600, cavelamb
wrote: A bunch snipped another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. However... you really need to put some additional finish on top of that epoxy if it is on an outside surface as bare epoxy does degrade when exposed to UV. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote:
In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
cavelamb wrote:
I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... mx wrote: Will all epoxies bond to one another? I have some West GFlex, which I want to use thickened to fill a gap between two loosely-fit fiberglass parts, and some System Three laminating resin (Clear Coat, I think, I don't have it with me right now) that I then want to use with glass tape to reinforce over the surface of the joint. Will the epoxies bond well to each other, if the glass is applied within a few days of the first resin? Also, is colloidal silica and microballons the same? I have an old bag of house-brand microballons from Fiberlay, and colloidal silica is recommended as a thickener. I feel like I used to know the answer to this...but, apparently, I'm an idiot! Thanks, Mike epoxies are a universal primer and epoxy will stick to epoxy, but watch out for amine blush. Some/most venders (like the ones you mention) sell the bushing epoxies because they make more profit/ Blush can affect the bond between layers. fumed silica is a common thickener... microspheres are tiny hollow spheres, very light and fine (comes in different densities) - thickens the epoxy but acts like tiny ball bearings in the epoxy paul oman - progressive epoxy polymers inc. www.epoxyproducts.com and www.epoxyusa.com Has anyone mentioned that Balloons are more for filling and fairing, Silica is more for structural work? SmallBoats.com Micro balloons come in two flavors - Phenolic and Glass. Glass should not be used with Polyester resin. But either can be used with epoxy. I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Cotton make a great structural additive. Milled or stranded as needed. Or even cotton balls sometimes. Or wood flour, if you are working with wood. Then there are the exotic fillers. Aluminum dust, steel powder, carbon powder, etc. When I was building, I used the silica for everything. I always tried to use as little as possible to get the job done though. It is hard to sand once finished too. When I needed more strength in a bond, I would layer in glass fabric, or chop some glass fabric into strands and mix it in. I don't remember ever using the balloons. Warning, tangent below When I was working with wood that was going to be clearcoated I would pigment the epoxy with two colors, pine and maple, wood flower. The pine would end up about the color of commercial peanut butter and worked for corners on lighter wood, the maple would turn a rich brown with the epoxy. You can also mix the two to match colors. Note, your own homemade sawdust is not the same as wood flower, it can be used, but it is not as smooth. I suppose the stuff your sanders save at 100 grit or smaller might be good too. SB I had some really old West resin. The catalyst had turned really dark. It still worked fine, just made a beautiful darker finish. another tangent: I found that if you take that last coat of resin and wipe it OFF - ALL OF IT!, just keep wiping it off (use lint free cotton rags rather than paper towels) you can get a gorgeous satin finish. The only downside is the danger of leaving any small puddles of resin which will still be shiny and quite obvious. But if you stay at it and get it clean, it makes a really pretty finish. And way tougher than varnish. I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
Paul Oman wrote:
cavelamb wrote: I am Tosk wrote: I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. Hi Paul, I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam. After all, you were spot on target. So - Google to the rescue... I was impressed with all the info on the help page. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff. Richard |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
cavelamb wrote:
Paul Oman wrote: cavelamb wrote: I am Tosk wrote: I would still cover it with UV protective clearcoat as UV breaks down epoxy pretty quickly. NOTE THAT 99.9% OF ANY CLEAR COAT PRODUCT HAS LITTLE OR NO UV PROTECTION (UV BLOCKERS OR UV ABSORBERS) IN THEM. PAUL OMAN progressive epoxy polymers inc sorry. I should have added that I only use this for interior finished. You are absolutely right. Hi Paul, I think you could have put a line is and nobody would have yelled Spam. After all, you were spot on target. So - Google to the rescue... I was impressed with all the info on the help page. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/help.html Might have to try some of that Basic No Blush stuff. Richard Hope so. The help.html and map.html put structure into the 180 page epoxy site. 90% of the pages are info and not sales related -- paul (merry christmas to everyone reading this!) -- ============================================ PAUL OMAN Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. Incorporated -- State of New Hampshire Office hrs 10:30-3PM Mon-Thur closed Fridays 603-435-7199 www.epoxyproducts.com --- www.epoxyUSA.com VISA//MC/Discover/AMEX/Paypal ============================================ DISCLAIMER: Any suggestions/procedures offered are given AS-IS without any warranty. Use of website/email/telephone suggestions and/or procedures is at your sole cost and risk. Buyer is solely responsible for testing the suitability of Product and determining quantities needed. Buyer is also solely responsible for compliance with local VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) regulations controlling the purchase and use of Product at buyer's location. Disclaimers, legal notices, health warning, etc., are found at www.epoxyproducts.com/legal.html. Use of website, ordering products online or by telephone/fax,and use of products shall constitute acceptance and knowledge of those terms and conditions. |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
I am Tosk wrote: I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Silica is more than a thickener, it's a thixotropic agent. This means that the resin+silica fluid has a lower viscosity when you stress it (ie when painting or spraying or mixing). When you leave it alone, the viscosity will increase a lot (quickly), making it a kind of gel which will indeed prevent sagging. With a thickener like wood flour, the mix will still flow when set on a non-horizontal surface (albeit more slowly). You'd have to add unworkable (with a brush) amounts to slow down the flowing to the point where it stays put until the epoxy cures. The silica is kind of a miracle thickener which "knows" what it should be doing, but, as mentioned in the thread, the end result is hard to sand. I think it's quite usual to mix in both silica and another thickener like micro-balloons or wood flour, to adjust the viscosity properties and the end density and hardness to what you are doing. jf |
do all (most?) epoxies bond to each other?
In article , jfd@nautique-
sevres.org says... I am Tosk wrote: I believe silica is just a thickening agent to help prevent sagging on vertical surfaces. Silica is more than a thickener, it's a thixotropic agent. This means that the resin+silica fluid has a lower viscosity when you stress it (ie when painting or spraying or mixing). When you leave it alone, the viscosity will increase a lot (quickly), making it a kind of gel which will indeed prevent sagging. With a thickener like wood flour, the mix will still flow when set on a non-horizontal surface (albeit more slowly). You'd have to add unworkable (with a brush) amounts to slow down the flowing to the point where it stays put until the epoxy cures. The silica is kind of a miracle thickener which "knows" what it should be doing, but, as mentioned in the thread, the end result is hard to sand. I think it's quite usual to mix in both silica and another thickener like micro-balloons or wood flour, to adjust the viscosity properties and the end density and hardness to what you are doing. jf I used combinations of silica (yes, hard to sand) and maple or pine flour for texture and color... Maple cures about the color of chocolate, and pine about the color of peanut butter... -- Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese! |
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