I completely disagree with both candidates saying that "this isn't the time
to start pointing fingers... about who's to blame." I think it *is* the
time, and the chips should fall where they may. CNN seems to be doing
this... IDing those who were responsible.

wrote in message
...
On Oct 10, 2:51 pm, Dave wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 09:48:58 -0700 (PDT), said:

How did "pressuring lenders to make loans to those unfit to pay them"
force Wall St corporate banks to extend their leverage on CDOs and
similar vehicles of unassessed risk?

Umm...I don't think he said it did.

Oh, did I miss something?
I thought *you* said the CRA was the cause... along with a lot of
other people saying it, to be fair.
But I don't hold it against you personally, Dave, it's the latest
verse of the right-right-wingers favorite song "blame-the-poor." You
just can't help singing along.

.... It simply created one of the key
ingredients for development of the perfect storm. Unquestionably excess
leverage on the part of investment banks also contributed. As did the
consolidation of both commercial banks and investment banking houses
that's
been occurring for at least the last 40 years.

Yep again.

Dang, we should be in congress straightening this mess out.

My recommendation is to bring back public flogging. Put those AIG and
Bear-Stearns execs in the stocks and make an example of them. Maybe
some of the others, who deserve less harsh punishment, can just wear a
big red dollar sign on their shirts.

DSK



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

mister b wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 12:14:40 -0500, Peaceful Bill wrote:

You clearly can't see the connection. So there's no point in wasting my
time on explaining it to you.

it appears that you would like him to see your concocted
connection...but...

Yeah, Canada is a world leader in economics and banking. All five
banks.

name one of the banks in danger of failing?

Interesting that you should post this today, The World Economic Forum
just rated Canada's banks as the soundest in the world, ahead of Sweden.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv...4981X220081009

USA, #40, behind Namibia for crying out lout! Great Britain? 44th!


Cheers
Martin

Gogarty wrote:
In article ,
says...

Yeah, Canada is a world leader in economics and banking. All five banks.

Yep. All five SOUND banks. Used to be 15,000 individual banks in the USA. They
were kept honest by their local regulators and since the '30s were forbidden
to be investment banks. In many states, i.e., Texas and Illinois, they were
not even permitted to have branches and a stand-alone ATM was considered a
branch.It worked just fine. But the ABA finally prevailed on the Republicans
to repeal Glass/Steagall, lots of other stuff went by the board (boat
reference) and the rest is disaster. You can quibbble about the details but
that's the long and the short of it. So now you have the surviving investment
banks turning themselves into deposit-taking commercial banks for their own
protection -- under much more stringent regulation. They have fled to the
protective embrace of -- can it really be? -- THE GUMMINT!

You forgot to mention that many states even forbid out-of-state
ownership of banks. Missouri immediately comes to mind. Otherwise a
fair assessment.

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:14:44 -0400, Gogarty said:

Yep. All five SOUND banks. Used to be 15,000 individual banks in the USA. They
were kept honest by their local regulators and since the '30s were forbidden
to be investment banks. In many states, i.e., Texas and Illinois, they were
not even permitted to have branches and a stand-alone ATM was considered a
branch.It worked just fine. But the ABA finally prevailed on the Republicans
to repeal Glass/Steagall, lots of other stuff went by the board (boat
reference) and the rest is disaster. You can quibbble about the details but
that's the long and the short of it.

You have the kernels of some correct ideas here. But most of it is nonsense
so far as the current crisis is concerned.


Of particular interest to you Dave: One of the reasons cited by the
World Economic Forum for rating Canada as having the soundest banking
system in the world was that we have very stringent government
regulation of banks and their practices. Ummm food for thought,,,
maybe sometimes government oversight can be a good thing?

Cheers
Martin

"Charles Momsen" wrote in
:

When I made my clairvoyent post on 9/25/08 about considering buying
value boats for retirement the DJIA stood at 11,000. Today, just over
2 weeks later the DJIA is near 8,000 a drop of about 30%. For the year
the DJIA is down about 5,000 or about 40%.

If your retirement income is tied to the DJIA you've seen it drop 40%
this year alone. Imagine 10 years of retirement savings up in smoke.
That's 20 years of retirement you won't have.



We Americans are experiencing something "new" to us....DEflation, the
revaluation of our currency.

Case in point. Look at the graph of the measure of value for the last
10000 years, gold:
http://www.kitco.com/charts/popup/au3650nyb_.html

The value of gold is fixed for at LEAST the last 10,000 years. It's the
measuring stick, like it or not, of every currency on the planet.

Until very recently, since the scam of the Federal Reserve Private Bank
Corporation started in 1913, the banker elite have used inflation and
devaluation of the currency as a way of cheating anyone making a living
out of the VALUE of their labor by cranking the printing presses to
dilute the value of their faux dollar. This has been going on worse and
worse since 1946. (see graph of the last 10 years of it.) Gold kept
skyrocketing in a log-scale scandal.....until NOW.

At the end of the chart, just as gold hit $1002/oz, something popped.
The people got to the point where they didn't have enough value left to
keep buying the ever-increasingly-expensive goods the elite were
producing. They couldn't afford to buy the $35,000 Chevy and feed it
$4.50/gallon gas... Gold started wobbling, even DROPPING in price as
the VALUE of the Yankee Dollars actually climbed a bit. Americans, born
and raised and brainwashed by inflation, were appalled to see PRICES
DROP....things started getting CHEAPER as the dollar increased in value.
Gold dropped in PRICE by 25% to $750/oz! Government and banks using
this scam to enrich themselves and the elite are in panic!

To maintain PAR VALUE with the dropping price of gold, the value of the
money climbing, prices started dropping. Oil was $140/bbl is now
$88/bbl. That $400K tar paper shack on Elm Street fell to $300K,
sending its owner to the cardiac clinic. His $300K house will buy just
as much GOLD, the measure of value, as his $400K house would. But,
brainwashed by the money changers that 10% inflation per year benefits
him because it caused his house to climb in PRICE, but not really in
value, he's never going to see a decrease in price as anything but
FAILURE.

As the depression continues, and money becomes more VALUABLE because it
becomes more SCARCE, gold price falls, dispite Congress and the bankers
running the printing press for each other 24/7 at full tilt, prices of
everything will continue to fall....and fall....and fall.....stocks,
houses, gas, BOATS, cars, apples, bread.....and my favorite, Moose
Tracks Ice Cream, which was about $38/gallon but is now $2/pint!

The poor ******* wage earner making $500/week finds his paycheck buying
MORE food, gas, bread, clothes.....and even Moose Tracks Ice
Cream...yum, yum! If he doesn't lose his job in the process, he's gonna
be sitting pretty. Anyone with MONEY...CASH MONEY...had a great time in
the 1930's when apples were a nickel, bread was 15c/loaf, gas was 12c to
put in his new 1938 LUXURY La Salle which cost him $1,295, not $125,000!

http://www.car-nection.com/yann/dbas_txt/Las1938.htm

We just have to get used to a more VALUABLE dollar and FALLING
prices....once again.