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single handling crusiers
All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to
there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin |
single handling crusiers
On 25 Sep, 21:38, jlrogers±³© wrote:
Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. I looked at an Island Packet last year. Although the boat was not for me, it did have some attributes that would suit a liveaboard. The saloon table folded up out of the way. If you are living aboard a ~30 footer, then you are likely to sleep in the forward cabin. The ability to leave your cabin without having to squeeze past the saloon table would probably be a great advantage. In fact, the saloon seemed huge with the table folded up. Regards Donal -- |
single handling crusiers
We have several "old timers" at our marina who set off now and again with boats suitable for your plan. Cape Dory 33.....heavy, but comfortable and easy to handle sail plan. I've sailed the 30 footer quite a bit more. Pacific Seacraft Pilot House 32....One of my favorite boats and perfect for one person or a happy couple. Tends to be pricey. Pearson 35....this old timer even came as a yawl and some were fit out for blue water. A bargain, even when refit. There are quite a few boats that could be right for you. You might even do well with a properly set up Beneteau or C&C. No doubt others will have much more to add. Cheers, RB |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. What destroyer were you on? |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. Definitely the right place to start. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. I think any of these and there are others that would fill the bill. The only way to know what suits you and what won't is to sail various types. In addition to your list, I'd suggest looking at Sabre (my bias), C&C, Pearson, Tartan. Perhaps Ericson. There's a long list. Remember, even a "turnkey" boat is going to need maintenance, upgrades for your requirements, insurance, etc., so you have to include those ideas when you make your choice about cost. You can spend $50K and have to put $10K to it. Or, you can spend a lot less and put more to it over time. The other thing I'll say is that a boat in the 30' range isn't really great as a live-aboard. Sure, it's doable, but if you go up to the 35-36' range, you'll be a heck of a lot more comfortable, and of course, maintenance, upgrades, etc., will also cost more. You need to consider the size of your living space, including convenience issues if you want to be relatively comfortable. We're all used to living in houses/apts., which are a heck of a lot bigger. A couple of years ago when I was looking for my boat, I came across a Pearson 365 that was in amazing shape. I didn't think about it carefully enough and was outbid. I don't regret the Sabre for various practical and important reasons, but the Pearson was a good deal, even at the asking price. As I recall it was $28K.. something like that. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. What destroyer were you on? Good advice. Maybe I can pick up something really cheap and disposable after the hurricane. USS Boyd DD544 '64 '65 USS Collett DD730 '65 '66 You? |
single handling crusiers
jlrogers±³© wrote:
All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. *And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. Actually, the Navy experience can be valuable. For example, the way the Navy handles dock lines is far better than the way most cruisers do. 'Dipping the eye' and apply chafe gear are just two examples. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. That's an excellent plan, it can be fun too. You may find a berth crewing on a passage or delivery; best way to see if you really like it. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. *I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. Singlehanding is over rated IMHO. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Any of those would be great boats *if* properly equipped & maintained. The Cape Dory will be the least roomy, the Endeavor the most roomy. The Crealock would be my pick for heavy weather sailing but then I'd prefer to avoid bad weather offshore. Don't underestimate the importance of draft. If you have a deep keel, you will be locked out of many desirable places on the South East coast. My preference is about 4' draft or less, but that will necessitate either a centerboard (which is a maintenance item) or severely compromising windward ability. Another caveat- if you're looking into an older boat, the level of maintenance & upgraded equipment will be far more important than the brand name stamped on the coaming. It would be easy to spend $60k outiftting a small cruising boat... and not necessarily getting any "fancy stuff." Island Packets are great boats... roomy, well built, good sailing characteristics... Cape Dories are built like tanks and good sea boats too. No core worries! Contessa 32 is a legendary boat Which brings me to my question: *what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? *Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Aw heck, you can buy several for that price... the question is, what will you have in it by the time you're satisfied with the condition & equipment? My suggestions- -Consider a larger range of boats. There is no reason why a singlehander could not handle & maintain a 35-footer as well as a 30 footer. -Don't get hung up on "type of boat" until you have been actively sailing on at least a dozen different ones (and you'll rack up underway miles on different boats faster than you think, once you get started). Instead, consider characteristics & features that you like and that 'work for you.' It's a very personal choice. As for boats.... Morgan 30 & Morgan 34 Soverel 30 (older model) S2 Albin Rival Moody Maybe a bit to racy, but it's an S&S ....guaranteed classic! http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1836713 While you're in Kemah, take a look at this one http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1930404 CS built some great boats http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1752699 The Caliber is a well-respected boat too... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1965179 I mentioned Moody, they built good boats too. Here's one of the few aft-cabin boats I like http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1615826 "Capt. Rob" wrote: We have several "old timers" at our marina who set off now and again with boats suitable for your plan. Oh really? And did you ask them what they think, Bubbles? Pearson 35....this old timer even came as a yawl and some were fit out for blue water. A bargain, even when refit. "Even came as a yawl" meaning what, exactly? Are yawls good? ..... No doubt others will have much more to add. No doubt. And there's a good reason why. "Charles Momsen" wrote: Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. More boats- I'm not a big fan of wish-booms, but the cat-ketch rig is the easiest to handle. IIRC these were built by Hinterhoeller http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1940305 Another one that's a bit on the racy side, but an awesome sailing boat & comfortable enough for cruising http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1874738 Oh and take a look at some Ericsons, too. There's a gazillion boats out there JL. It sounds like you're really got a handle on putting yourself into the position you want, rather than focussing on "buying a boat." Gathering info & skills, and making contacts, is a very important part of the picture. And if you find yourself in the coasstal Carolinas, by all means let us know. you'd be very welcome and I can guarantee some sailing and also meeting some long-term sailors who will be glad to talk. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
single handling crusiers
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single handling crusiers
Vic Smith wrote:
For deck apes, that'll work. *BT's waste a lot of time trying to light off the sails. I just consider the winches to be like valves.... "righty tighty, lefty loosey" * I think the MMs might get confused though ;) DSK |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. I get your point exactly there Doug, however you seemed to have missed mine. JL may not have an MD as a wife to financially carry the load, he may have actually raised children, or he may find that spending most of his time in a 30' fiberglass cocoon doesn't promote good health or vigorous exercise. How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? JL talked about unknowns and uncertaintity regarding liveaboard and my advice was weighted towards the possibility that he wanted to remain retired at a standard of living acceptable to him. A "value" boat does not imply poverty in the least, no more than testing a paint spray gun on a piece of cardboard implies the mansion you are about to paint is a donkey shack. If JL lives another 30 years, what is the opportunity cost of blowing an extra 25K now? Is sailing more about the brand of boat or is it about the activity? If it's the former then jump right aboard Bobsprit's tricked out vessel he's got it all worked out. If it's the latter then cost is not a factor, whether it is low or high. Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. With the current financial uncertainty and the prospects of some long term negative financial issues I was simply offering an opinion that considered other factors. If you find my financial conservatism offensive, I would suggest that you look inward to find the source of the problem. It was your great circle trip that expenses were logged down to the penny, schedules were kept to the minute. Several here commented on your rigid, miserly bent. It seems my advice is congruent with your ways and I'm sorry to have knocked that chip off of your shoulder. |
single handling crusiers
He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on
his shoulder. "Charles Momsen" wrote: I get your point exactly there Doug, however you seemed to have missed mine. Glad you got my point... but I don't think I missed yours, not at all. In fact, given the length & tone of your reply, looks like I nailed it precisely. JL may not have an MD as a wife to financially carry the load Plenty of single lady doctors around who would like a partner. Many of them love sailing, or other outdoors puruits. They tend to be very very picky about long-term choices though. ... he may find that spending most of his time in a 30' fiberglass cocoon doesn't promote good health or vigorous exercise. Duh. It doesn't really... and that's true of any cruising vessel regardless of size. One cannot go for a long walk in the woods aboard a 65' Swan, for example. This is one reason why passagemaking doesn't appeal to me personally. But travel by sailboat has it's rewards, for sure. ... How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? I don't see *any* boats for sale that meet my own standards. Not brand new, not used. Quite frankly, one of the biggest barriers to cruising is that very very boats are actually designed & outfitted for it. So most cruisers work on their boats, do some upgrading, and then go anyway. Or work work work on the boat until they get sick of it & quit. As for health issues, especially as one ages, that is a great point. Go now, while you are able! And take care of your back, it's the only one you'll ever have. .... JL talked about unknowns and uncertaintity regarding liveaboard and my advice was weighted towards the possibility that he wanted to remain retired at a standard of living acceptable to him. And of course, you know exactly how much disposable income he has, what investments, medical benefits, etc etc. A "value" boat does not imply poverty in the least A well-chosen boat does not have to be expensive, either. However, proper equipment *is* expensive which is why you see so little of it on older cruising boats. Heck one could spend $20k just rewiring one of the 'plastic classics' from the 1960s & 1970s. This is why I said that maintenance & upgrades were more important than the brand name. ..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. So why are you trying to push your own penny-pinching attitude on him? ..... If you find my financial conservatism offensive, I would suggest that you look inward to find the source of the problem. Oh, were you being "financially conservative"? Buying and then selling a boat is very expensive, I can't think of a better method to throw away a couple tens of thousands of dollars. That's why I siggested waiting until he had some experience with a variety of boats to find what he might like & find practical for his own fancy. .... It was your great circle trip that expenses were logged down to the penny, schedules were kept to the minute. Really? You give me too much credit. Our schedule went more or less by the month, other than navigation. Our expenses were tallied no more accurately than I always keep my own books, and not "to the penny" unfortunately. I budget my time according to my priorities, and I spend some time on finances but don't obsess. Why are -you- obsessing over other people's finances? .... Several here commented on your rigid, miserly bent. Let me guess... it was you, Saltie/BB, and Bubbles. All failures at sailing and cruising who backstab anybody here who displays some degree of success. Surpise surprise! However, let me say in parting that I don't wish you ill, I hope you find some contentment in actually GOING SAILING. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
single handling crusiers
wrote:
Saddest post of the day. Could you be more specific? .... Maybe the month. Oh is it that time of the month for you? DSK |
single handling crusiers
Could you be more specific?
wrote: You need someone to explain a five word post to you? Nope. Your post was very unspecific, and I wondered if there were any further details that could be instructive. ...Which of the big words has you baffled? Now I see... you're just being bitter again. DSK |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. "Charles Momsen" wrote: I get your point exactly there Doug, however you seemed to have missed mine. Glad you got my point... but I don't think I missed yours, not at all. In fact, given the length & tone of your reply, looks like I nailed it precisely. My point to JL was one thing, my point to you is another. I merely made an opinion from my point of view and based upon my life experiences to JL, you came back with the chip on my shoulder comment. I won't apologize for NOT being in the top 1% of wage earners, being worth tens of millions of spending a part of each day counting my money. I made a choice decades ago and I knew then riches were not on the horizon, but something more meaningful to me was. So if you want to rub my nose in my financial status with poverty comments, by all means go ahead. I'm not a winner in the rat race, I never signed up. JL may not have an MD as a wife to financially carry the load Plenty of single lady doctors around who would like a partner. Many of them love sailing, or other outdoors puruits. They tend to be very very picky about long-term choices though. True, one of the biggest factors for doctors is that their career takes precedent over the rest of their life so their other choices are very limited. ... he may find that spending most of his time in a 30' fiberglass cocoon doesn't promote good health or vigorous exercise. Duh. It doesn't really... and that's true of any cruising vessel regardless of size. One cannot go for a long walk in the woods aboard a 65' Swan, for example. Nor can one pole vault below deck (except in BS's aft cabin). It is true that any size vessel doesn't promote good health, so why spend too much to find that out? This is one reason why passagemaking doesn't appeal to me personally. But travel by sailboat has it's rewards, for sure. Sailing is great! It's on my top ten list of recreational pursuits. ... How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? I don't see *any* boats for sale that meet my own standards. Not brand new, not used. Quite frankly, one of the biggest barriers to cruising is that very very boats are actually designed & outfitted for it. So most cruisers work on their boats, do some upgrading, and then go anyway. Everyone's standards are different and every boat is a compromise in some way. Some people's standards are unrealistic, some people are happy and realistic with less. Or work work work on the boat until they get sick of it & quit. Boats, houses, cars, etc. The one thing in common is that most lose money on it. I was pointing this out, in an indirect way, to JL. It's his retirement he's spending. As for health issues, especially as one ages, that is a great point. Go now, while you are able! And take care of your back, it's the only one you'll ever have. Not everyone has that opportunity. Some wait for retirement to do things they dream of, as in JL's case. My advice, which is my opinion, was to minimize certain risks. .... JL talked about unknowns and uncertaintity regarding liveaboard and my advice was weighted towards the possibility that he wanted to remain retired at a standard of living acceptable to him. And of course, you know exactly how much disposable income he has, what investments, medical benefits, etc etc. I have no idea what his financial status is. Maybe you do. I was simply offering an opinion, should I apologize for it? To whom? You? JL? A "value" boat does not imply poverty in the least A well-chosen boat does not have to be expensive, either. However, proper equipment *is* expensive which is why you see so little of it on older cruising boats. Heck one could spend $20k just rewiring one of the 'plastic classics' from the 1960s & 1970s. This is why I said that maintenance & upgrades were more important than the brand name. That's great. I simply said that buying a "value" boat first and inflicting the costs of learning on it, rather than something more expensive might be worth considering. ..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. So why are you trying to push your own penny-pinching attitude on him? I only offered a opinion that I hoped was non-offensive to him. I'm sorry for being so pushy JL, it wasn't my intent. My intention was to point out saving money in the long term and reducing financial risk. He did ask questions in a cautionary tone with financial constraints and I took them into consideration, perhaps a bit too much. If I inferred anything bad about JL I apologize, it was not my intent - it was simply my interpretation of the question and of course I have my biases. The last thing I want to be perceived as is someone who is pushing an atitude. ..... If you find my financial conservatism offensive, I would suggest that you look inward to find the source of the problem. Oh, were you being "financially conservative"? Buying and then selling a boat is very expensive, I can't think of a better method to throw away a couple tens of thousands of dollars. That's why I siggested waiting until he had some experience with a variety of boats to find what he might like & find practical for his own fancy. Buying and selling a boat can be very expensive indeed, I was simply offering an alternative to that - buy a "value" boat first. I'm not accustomed to throwing away tens of thousands of dollars with each boat I buy and sell, some people may be and probably can well afford to. It's just not in my means or game plan. .... It was your great circle trip that expenses were logged down to the penny, schedules were kept to the minute. Really? You give me too much credit. Our schedule went more or less by the month, other than navigation. Our expenses were tallied no more accurately than I always keep my own books, and not "to the penny" unfortunately. I budget my time according to my priorities, and I spend some time on finances but don't obsess. Why are -you- obsessing over other people's finances? The theme of my advice was to avoid having to obssess over finances, to buy something one could walk away from with minimal financial loss. JL did make cost a consideration, I was trying to operate within that framework. Apparently, in some way, I was out of bounds. Sorry, JL. .... Several here commented on your rigid, miserly bent. Let me guess... it was you, Saltie/BB, and Bubbles. All failures at sailing and cruising who backstab anybody here who displays some degree of success. Surpise surprise! I never commented on your rigid, miserly bent until now, only to say others have mentioned it. What is your metric for failure at sailing and cruising? Is it your standards applied to someone else? However, let me say in parting that I don't wish you ill, I hope you find some contentment in actually GOING SAILING. Likewise, I simply hope you find contentment on your own terms. |
single handling crusiers
I don't see that many opportunities to dip the eye around a bollard..
wrote in message ... jlrogers±³© wrote: All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. Actually, the Navy experience can be valuable. For example, the way the Navy handles dock lines is far better than the way most cruisers do. 'Dipping the eye' and apply chafe gear are just two examples. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. Singlehanding is over rated IMHO. It can be a lot of work or it can be a pleasure to be away from other people. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... jlrogers±³© wrote: All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. Actually, the Navy experience can be valuable. For example, the way the Navy handles dock lines is far better than the way most cruisers do. 'Dipping the eye' and apply chafe gear are just two examples. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. That's an excellent plan, it can be fun too. You may find a berth crewing on a passage or delivery; best way to see if you really like it. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. Singlehanding is over rated IMHO. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Any of those would be great boats *if* properly equipped & maintained. The Cape Dory will be the least roomy, the Endeavor the most roomy. The Crealock would be my pick for heavy weather sailing but then I'd prefer to avoid bad weather offshore. Don't underestimate the importance of draft. If you have a deep keel, you will be locked out of many desirable places on the South East coast. My preference is about 4' draft or less, but that will necessitate either a centerboard (which is a maintenance item) or severely compromising windward ability. Another caveat- if you're looking into an older boat, the level of maintenance & upgraded equipment will be far more important than the brand name stamped on the coaming. It would be easy to spend $60k outiftting a small cruising boat... and not necessarily getting any "fancy stuff." Island Packets are great boats... roomy, well built, good sailing characteristics... Cape Dories are built like tanks and good sea boats too. No core worries! Contessa 32 is a legendary boat Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Aw heck, you can buy several for that price... the question is, what will you have in it by the time you're satisfied with the condition & equipment? My suggestions- -Consider a larger range of boats. There is no reason why a singlehander could not handle & maintain a 35-footer as well as a 30 footer. -Don't get hung up on "type of boat" until you have been actively sailing on at least a dozen different ones (and you'll rack up underway miles on different boats faster than you think, once you get started). Instead, consider characteristics & features that you like and that 'work for you.' It's a very personal choice. As for boats.... Morgan 30 & Morgan 34 Soverel 30 (older model) S2 Albin Rival Moody Maybe a bit to racy, but it's an S&S ....guaranteed classic! http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1836713 While you're in Kemah, take a look at this one http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1930404 CS built some great boats http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1752699 The Caliber is a well-respected boat too... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1965179 I mentioned Moody, they built good boats too. Here's one of the few aft-cabin boats I like http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1615826 "Capt. Rob" wrote: We have several "old timers" at our marina who set off now and again with boats suitable for your plan. Oh really? And did you ask them what they think, Bubbles? Pearson 35....this old timer even came as a yawl and some were fit out for blue water. A bargain, even when refit. "Even came as a yawl" meaning what, exactly? Are yawls good? ..... No doubt others will have much more to add. No doubt. And there's a good reason why. "Charles Momsen" wrote: Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. More boats- I'm not a big fan of wish-booms, but the cat-ketch rig is the easiest to handle. IIRC these were built by Hinterhoeller http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1940305 Another one that's a bit on the racy side, but an awesome sailing boat & comfortable enough for cruising http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1874738 Oh and take a look at some Ericsons, too. There's a gazillion boats out there JL. It sounds like you're really got a handle on putting yourself into the position you want, rather than focussing on "buying a boat." Gathering info & skills, and making contacts, is a very important part of the picture. And if you find yourself in the coasstal Carolinas, by all means let us know. you'd be very welcome and I can guarantee some sailing and also meeting some long-term sailors who will be glad to talk. Fresh Breezes- Doug King The first boat I ever wanted was a Non-such. Never had one though. The second was the Caliber 40' long range cruiser. Never sailed either, just bought their hype. They are both worthy of consideration, but "fully fitted out for cruising" wouldn't they would be at least 50% to 65% more expensive than some of the other boats mentioned? And are they any better? |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... jlrogers±³© wrote: All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. Actually, the Navy experience can be valuable. For example, the way the Navy handles dock lines is far better than the way most cruisers do. 'Dipping the eye' and apply chafe gear are just two examples. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. That's an excellent plan, it can be fun too. You may find a berth crewing on a passage or delivery; best way to see if you really like it. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. Singlehanding is over rated IMHO. Different strokes. I was divoriced in 1971. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Any of those would be great boats *if* properly equipped & maintained. The Cape Dory will be the least roomy, the Endeavor the most roomy. The Crealock would be my pick for heavy weather sailing but then I'd prefer to avoid bad weather offshore. Don't underestimate the importance of draft. If you have a deep keel, you will be locked out of many desirable places on the South East coast. My preference is about 4' draft or less, but that will necessitate either a centerboard (which is a maintenance item) or severely compromising windward ability. I want something no more that 41/2', and no centerboard. Another caveat- if you're looking into an older boat, the level of maintenance & upgraded equipment will be far more important than the brand name stamped on the coaming. It would be easy to spend $60k outiftting a small cruising boat... and not necessarily getting any "fancy stuff." Yes, I hope to buy a newly outfitted cruiser from someone who has "changed their plans." It happens all the time and I can be patient. Island Packets are great boats... roomy, well built, good sailing characteristics... Cape Dories are built like tanks and good sea boats too. No core worries! Contessa 32 is a legendary boat Contessas are had to find here, however. Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Aw heck, you can buy several for that price... the question is, what will you have in it by the time you're satisfied with the condition & equipment? My suggestions- -Consider a larger range of boats. There is no reason why a singlehander could not handle & maintain a 35-footer as well as a 30 footer. -Don't get hung up on "type of boat" until you have been actively sailing on at least a dozen different ones (and you'll rack up underway miles on different boats faster than you think, once you get started). Instead, consider characteristics & features that you like and that 'work for you.' It's a very personal choice. As for boats.... Morgan 30 & Morgan 34 Soverel 30 (older model) S2 Albin Rival Moody Maybe a bit to racy, but it's an S&S ....guaranteed classic! http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1836713 While you're in Kemah, take a look at this one http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1930404 CS built some great boats http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1752699 The Caliber is a well-respected boat too... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1965179 I mentioned Moody, they built good boats too. Here's one of the few aft-cabin boats I like http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1615826 "Capt. Rob" wrote: We have several "old timers" at our marina who set off now and again with boats suitable for your plan. Oh really? And did you ask them what they think, Bubbles? Pearson 35....this old timer even came as a yawl and some were fit out for blue water. A bargain, even when refit. "Even came as a yawl" meaning what, exactly? Are yawls good? ..... No doubt others will have much more to add. No doubt. And there's a good reason why. "Charles Momsen" wrote: Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. More boats- I'm not a big fan of wish-booms, but the cat-ketch rig is the easiest to handle. IIRC these were built by Hinterhoeller http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1940305 Another one that's a bit on the racy side, but an awesome sailing boat & comfortable enough for cruising http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1874738 Oh and take a look at some Ericsons, too. There's a gazillion boats out there JL. It sounds like you're really got a handle on putting yourself into the position you want, rather than focussing on "buying a boat." Gathering info & skills, and making contacts, is a very important part of the picture. And if you find yourself in the coasstal Carolinas, by all means let us know. you'd be very welcome and I can guarantee some sailing and also meeting some long-term sailors who will be glad to talk. Fresh Breezes- Doug King Washington, NC? I sailed from around there a long time ago. |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? That is the boat I'll be looking for. |
single handling crusiers
..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. Economics is a factor, isn't it always? A year ago when I gave my notice, my retirement budget was 20% greater than it is today. Current economic conditions have made me a lot more conservative. |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... ..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. Economics is a factor, isn't it always? A year ago when I gave my notice, my retirement budget was 20% greater than it is today. Current economic conditions have made me a lot more conservative. I'm really sorry if I said anything bad to reflect upon you, I didn't mean it. I was just giving a slightly outside of the box opinion. I hope things pick up for you and all works out to exceed your expectations. |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? That is the boat I'll be looking for. That type of boat is a great value. Someone else took the hit on the depreciation, you're in a position of strength negotiating price and the boat is lightly used. You might look inland and up north. I've seen a number of large boats used in lakes in the Rockies going at fire sale prices. They aren't listed with brokers, try Craigslist. |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... ..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. Economics is a factor, isn't it always? A year ago when I gave my notice, my retirement budget was 20% greater than it is today. Current economic conditions have made me a lot more conservative. I'm really sorry if I said anything bad to reflect upon you, I didn't mean it. I was just giving a slightly outside of the box opinion. I hope things pick up for you and all works out to exceed your expectations. Lighten up, I too believe in being careful with one's resources. I don't have a six figure retirement income, but it is still more than the average household income. Plus, I was a consultant for thirty-five years and still have clients wanting me to do things for them. It's just at this point there aren't too many requests that I want to do. |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? That is the boat I'll be looking for. That type of boat is a great value. Someone else took the hit on the depreciation, you're in a position of strength negotiating price and the boat is lightly used. You might look inland and up north. I've seen a number of large boats used in lakes in the Rockies going at fire sale prices. They aren't listed with brokers, try Craigslist. Thanks' for the tip. Have never used Craigslist. |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: How many times does one see a fully decked out boat, a few years old, that some retiree is selling because they found out they don't like sailing (once the novelty wears off) or they suffered some physical injury (like a blown disc from hauling an anchor the wrong way) or their health is failing? That is the boat I'll be looking for. That type of boat is a great value. Someone else took the hit on the depreciation, you're in a position of strength negotiating price and the boat is lightly used. You might look inland and up north. I've seen a number of large boats used in lakes in the Rockies going at fire sale prices. They aren't listed with brokers, try Craigslist. Thanks' for the tip. Have never used Craigslist. I have had all good experiences with Craigslist, especially with boats. They aren't bid through the roof like eBay, aren't marked up by brokers and you actually meet the owner. I haven't figured out how to search the whole US on Craigslist (don't know if its even possible, if it is it's probably really obvious so that's why I missed it) so you will have to go state by state or city by city. If you figure out how to search nationally, let me know. Good luck and I'm glad to be of assistance. If you do figure out exactly what you want, also let me know because I visit odd backwaters, you'd be surprised what people let go for a mere song and your dream may be sitting there behind some old shed. |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... jlrogers±³© wrote: All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. Actually, the Navy experience can be valuable. For example, the way the Navy handles dock lines is far better than the way most cruisers do. 'Dipping the eye' and apply chafe gear are just two examples. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. That's an excellent plan, it can be fun too. You may find a berth crewing on a passage or delivery; best way to see if you really like it. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. Singlehanding is over rated IMHO. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Any of those would be great boats *if* properly equipped & maintained. The Cape Dory will be the least roomy, the Endeavor the most roomy. The Crealock would be my pick for heavy weather sailing but then I'd prefer to avoid bad weather offshore. Don't underestimate the importance of draft. If you have a deep keel, you will be locked out of many desirable places on the South East coast. My preference is about 4' draft or less, but that will necessitate either a centerboard (which is a maintenance item) or severely compromising windward ability. Another caveat- if you're looking into an older boat, the level of maintenance & upgraded equipment will be far more important than the brand name stamped on the coaming. It would be easy to spend $60k outiftting a small cruising boat... and not necessarily getting any "fancy stuff." Island Packets are great boats... roomy, well built, good sailing characteristics... Cape Dories are built like tanks and good sea boats too. No core worries! Contessa 32 is a legendary boat Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Aw heck, you can buy several for that price... the question is, what will you have in it by the time you're satisfied with the condition & equipment? My suggestions- -Consider a larger range of boats. There is no reason why a singlehander could not handle & maintain a 35-footer as well as a 30 footer. -Don't get hung up on "type of boat" until you have been actively sailing on at least a dozen different ones (and you'll rack up underway miles on different boats faster than you think, once you get started). Instead, consider characteristics & features that you like and that 'work for you.' It's a very personal choice. As for boats.... Morgan 30 & Morgan 34 Soverel 30 (older model) S2 Albin Rival Moody Maybe a bit to racy, but it's an S&S ....guaranteed classic! http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1836713 While you're in Kemah, take a look at this one http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1930404 CS built some great boats http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1752699 The Caliber is a well-respected boat too... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1965179 I mentioned Moody, they built good boats too. Here's one of the few aft-cabin boats I like http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1615826 "Capt. Rob" wrote: We have several "old timers" at our marina who set off now and again with boats suitable for your plan. Oh really? And did you ask them what they think, Bubbles? Pearson 35....this old timer even came as a yawl and some were fit out for blue water. A bargain, even when refit. "Even came as a yawl" meaning what, exactly? Are yawls good? ..... No doubt others will have much more to add. No doubt. And there's a good reason why. "Charles Momsen" wrote: Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first He said he was retiring, not retiring in poverty with a big chip on his shoulder. More boats- I'm not a big fan of wish-booms, but the cat-ketch rig is the easiest to handle. IIRC these were built by Hinterhoeller http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1940305 Another one that's a bit on the racy side, but an awesome sailing boat & comfortable enough for cruising http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oat_id=1874738 Oh and take a look at some Ericsons, too. There's a gazillion boats out there JL. It sounds like you're really got a handle on putting yourself into the position you want, rather than focussing on "buying a boat." Gathering info & skills, and making contacts, is a very important part of the picture. And if you find yourself in the coasstal Carolinas, by all means let us know. you'd be very welcome and I can guarantee some sailing and also meeting some long-term sailors who will be glad to talk. Fresh Breezes- Doug King Thanks Doug. I appreciate the time you took to reply. I will look at a lot of boats. What else do I have to do now? Isn't it great? |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote:
I have had all good experiences with Craigslist, especially with boats. They aren't bid through the roof like eBay, aren't marked up by brokers and you actually meet the owner. I haven't figured out how to search the whole US on Craigslist (don't know if its even possible, http://www.craigshelper.com/ It's a bit awkward, but less tedious than a city-by-city search DSK |
single handling crusiers
"jlrogers±³©" wrote:
Thanks Doug. *I appreciate the time you took to reply. *I will look at a lot of boats. *What else do I have to do now? *Isn't it great? Yep, life is good. And the markets will stabilize & return to some normalcy... just can't say exactly when! Boat shopping is a heck of a lot of fun- enjoy! DSK |
single handling crusiers
wrote in message ... "Charles Momsen" wrote: I have had all good experiences with Craigslist, especially with boats. They aren't bid through the roof like eBay, aren't marked up by brokers and you actually meet the owner. I haven't figured out how to search the whole US on Craigslist (don't know if its even possible, http://www.craigshelper.com/ It's a bit awkward, but less tedious than a city-by-city search DSK Much appreciation for assistance rendered! |
single handling crusiers
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:38:13 -0500, jlrogers±³©
wrote: All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Congratulations on posting the only on topic thread in many days. You need to be more specific about your plans. Do you plan to live in Kemah and mostly sail in the upper gulf, or maybe west coast of florida? If so, you should consider something shallow draft maybe a keel/CB such as a Tartan 37 that would allow you entry to many more coves, islands, creeks off the ICC, etc. Frank |
single handling crusiers
Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim |
single handling crusiers
"JimC" wrote in message
... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did you leave it? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
single handling crusiers
Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did you leave it? Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line (trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal levels. Jim |
single handling crusiers
"JimC" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message .. . All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did you leave it? Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line (trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal levels. Jim Glad all is ok... can't imagine what it was like. All we have are earthquakes. :-) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
single handling crusiers
On 27 Sep, 14:13, jlrogers±³© wrote:
..... Expenses become a factor in the whole context of JL's life which only he can determine himself. Economics is a factor, isn't it always? A year ago when I gave my notice, my retirement budget was 20% greater than it is today. Current economic conditions have made me a lot more conservative. You are not alone. I've got several freinds who have seen their retirement plans evaporate. For some of them the damage is more like 80% than 20%. It's quite scary. I've been reading the discussion between Doug and Charles with some interest. They both have very good points to make. If you don't have much experience in the various boats that you are looking at, then I would advise the "cheap" boat route. As you asked the question in the first place, I suspect that don't know the boats very well. Whatever you do, do not kit the boat out for long distance cruising until you are happy that you are comfortable living on it. Regards Donal -- |
single handling crusiers
"JimC" wrote in message ... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Thank you. Just got back from Houston today, but didn't even try to get down to the coast..figure they have enough problems without a bunch of rubber neckers hanging out. Did have lunch with a guy who lives on Clear Lake. He is down from 4 boats to one. |
single handling crusiers
"JimC" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message .. . All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did you leave it? Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line (trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal levels. Jim I was told that around Clear Lake and Kemah that those boats tied to floating docks did much better than those tied to pilings and fixed docks or were on the hard. |
single handling crusiers
jlrogers±³© wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Charles Momsen wrote: "jlrogers±³©" wrote in message ... All my life I've "dreamed" about retiring on a boat and sailing from here to there, as the spirit moves me. However, my only experience is some lake sailing, a little Gulf of Mexico experience, and four years on a destroyer in the navy. And, except for a couple of years in the 90's, most of my sailing was done 35 years ago. I have now retired and I signed up for a series of ASA lessons at a school in Kemah, TX, just to bone up and get my feet wet, but haven't started yet due to Ike. My plan is to take the lessons, join a sailing club, and spend some time afloat to see if the passion dissolves in the salt spray. Assuming it doesn't, I will want to acquire a relatively inexpensive cruiser for step 2. I.e., learning to live aboard, maintain the boat, and sail alone with confidence. At one time I owned a thirty footer, but never lived aboard, and most of the maintenance was bought and paid for. I like all of the following, but remember my experience is day sailing, for the most part, and I'm completely ignorant of the requirements, stresses, and needs of the live aboard. Contessa Westerly (Konsort) Endeavour 32 Plan A Cape Dory Crealock (Pacific Seacraft) Island Packet Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. -- jlrogers±³© "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt "Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither." Benjamin Franklin Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. The previous suggestion (don't buy an "ideal boat" upfront) is a good one IMO. If you intend to liveaboard, I would also suggest something a little larger than 30 feet. I think your plan to charter various boats will give you a good idea of what's involved and what type and size boat you may prefer. I'm also near Kemah, and I can verify that in this area you will find many boats of all genries for far less than $60,000. (Try $15,000 - $30,000 for 30-35 ft. boats that would be ready to sail with minor cleanup or upgrades.). Have it surveyed, of course. - IMO, in this price range the condition of the boat is almost as important as the model/maker. And although I agree that Sabres, Endeavours, Island Packets, Tartans, Valiants, etc., are great boats, if you insist on getting one of these "ideal" boats, you may end up paying twice as much as you would for other boats of a the same size and condition that would be comfortable and that you would also enjoy sailing. - It's your choice, of course. Incidentally, my boat (a 26 ft. MacGregor) had no damage from the hurricane, and you would be welcome to go out with me anytime this Fall. Jim Glad to hear all is well Jim... you had it on a trailer and left town or did you leave it? Thanks. Yes, we were in a "mandatory evacuation" area, and we spent the night with relatives. The boat is in the water at one of the local marinas. I tied double lines to the risers (slideable vertically on rods connected to pilings), and apparently that was enough. The water-line (trash line) from the storm surge was around 8-10 feet above normal levels. Jim I was told that around Clear Lake and Kemah that those boats tied to floating docks did much better than those tied to pilings and fixed docks or were on the hard. That may be, although our marina (Legend Point) doesn't have floating docks and we seemed to have relatively little damage. (Although the boat two slips down was damaged when the piling to which it was attached was broken in two at the waterline during the storm, leaving the stern of that boat with no protection such that it became jammed against the intermediate boat and partially rolled over.) Jim |
single handling crusiers
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message ... Which brings me to my question: what boat would you recommend for the live aboard trial? Something no older that say 1983, between 28 and 35', a sloop, that could be bought for no more than $60,000. Congratulations on your retirement. Rather than get the ideal boat upfront, buy a lower cost "value" boat first. You'll probably make mistakes at first (crashing into stuff, breaking things or doing something that leaves a really big mark/gouge.) so get something you could walk away from. Make your second boat count. Buy whatever is cheap and popular in your area. You can easily resell it at a small loss and learn so much without fear of real financial loss. On Sept 25 the DJIA was at about 11,000. Today, Nov 20 it sits below 8,000. Down 27% in less than 2 months, down 43% from its high. There are a lot of Americans pinching pennies today. If you have the money, now is the time to start looking for a good value boat. You'll find Pacific Seacrafts (they stopped making the Dana again) and other quality boats on the chopping block. Great time to buy a Mitsubishi Evo too, no one else is and dealers are willing to bargain. Stores are virtually empty, resort areas barren, prices for goods, food and fuel are dropping. People are willing to work harder for less. For $60K you can get your dream boat of a lifetime. Go for it! |
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