Strikes me as silly to size your boat to the mass of the maximum anchor
/ rode you can handle when reliable windlasses are easily available.

I recommend a different rant - that of sail size. Most people are
defeated more by sail handling than anchor handling. BTW, if you wish to
further rant on anchors, I suggest you rant on Fortress rather than
Danforth hi tensile as the Fortress are even lighter.

For those of you who wish information, a Danforth or Fortress is a fine
anchor in some conditions such as sand, but not nearly as good in oyster
or rock.

Personally, I see no issues with an electric windless (or capstan). I've
never heard of a boat being permanently anchored due to the windless
failing to weigh anchor. Have you?

-paul

Paul Cassel wrote:
Personally, I see no issues with an electric windless (or capstan).

The worst case scenario that I can think of (and have no idea if it's
ever happened) is that the anchor failing to set and the crew unable
to pull it up for another try.


.... I've
never heard of a boat being permanently anchored due to the windless
failing to weigh anchor. Have you?


Are you going to ask "Wilbur Hubbard" to justify his irrational
dislikes & prejudices? What's next, asking him to rationalize his
behavior?

DSK

wrote in message
...
Paul Cassel wrote:
Personally, I see no issues with an electric windless (or capstan).

The worst case scenario that I can think of (and have no idea if it's
ever happened) is that the anchor failing to set and the crew unable
to pull it up for another try.


.... I've
never heard of a boat being permanently anchored due to the windless
failing to weigh anchor. Have you?


Are you going to ask "Wilbur Hubbard" to justify his irrational
dislikes & prejudices? What's next, asking him to rationalize his
behavior?

DSK


I'm trying to remember ever being on a boat that had a windlass that didn't
have the ability to use a winch handle and do it manually. I suppose they're
out there, but it seems like an inexpensive backup. And, even if it didn't I
suppose you could use the biggest winch you have. I just wouldn't use it for
breaking free.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.

The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:41:41 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.

The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

They also had a crew of 400 men.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:41:41 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.
The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

They also had a crew of 400 men.


Ah, you may want to do a recount on that one.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:51:23 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

In article ,
says...


On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:41:41 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.

The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

They also had a crew of 400 men.

In a 100 ft. vessel.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


You said Battle ship.

I was wrong.

The HMS Victory, which was a First Rate ship of the Line, is 186 ft.
on the gun deck. Displaces 3,500 tones, has a draft of 28 feet.

The officers and crew comprised approximately 850 personal.

A broadside threw approximately 1,148 lbs. of iron.



Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Gogarty wrote:

My Lumar Concept 1 can let the anchor go in free fall so even if the windlass
fails one can anchor the boat. But you can't use a winch handle to bring it
back up. With a Delta 35 and all chain rode, we pray a lot that the windlass
does not fail. One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.


The old square riggers used an endless line on the capstan that attached
to the anchor cable via "nippers".

Could be done that way with lines on the winch hooked to the chain?

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
. ..
Strikes me as silly to size your boat to the mass of the maximum anchor /
rode you can handle when reliable windlasses are easily available.

I recommend a different rant - that of sail size. Most people are defeated
more by sail handling than anchor handling. BTW, if you wish to further
rant on anchors, I suggest you rant on Fortress rather than Danforth hi
tensile as the Fortress are even lighter.

Sail size is also important. But, it is often stated by competent sailors
who write about such things that a man in good physical condition can hand
and/or reef individual sails up to 500 square feet each even in strong
winds. This size sail can be found on boats up to about forty feet LOA which
vessels require anchors in the 50-60 pound range to be held securely in a
storm.

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the vessel
and sized on the heavy end of the spectrum for added safety even when just
anchoring for lunch in seeming benign conditions. It is often truly stated
that it's not the water that usually damages or destroys boats but the hard
stuff around the water's edge and weather is fickle and unreliable so why
trust to luck?

But, let's examine the folly of large yachts for the elderly and those
others of diminished physical capacity. Large yachts do indeed, require
large heavy anchors. These then require large, heavy, high-amperage
windlasses, long lengths of heavy chain which in turn require a large heavy
battery bank, generator or heavy diesel with heavy alternator, heavy thick
wiring etc. All these things are failure-prone in the salt water
environment. And, when one has a large heavy generator and auxiliary one
usually has large heavy tankage and perhaps one or two large heavy
refrigerators/freezers and all sorts of other electrical systems all of
which require proper and constant maintenance. Is this how an elderly crew
of a too-large vessel wants to spend their majority of their time?

Or do they really wish to enjoy sailing in a more pure form. Small yachts
allow more sailing time for the buck. They allow more enjoyable sailing
because of the reduced physical effort required. In that regard they can be
said to be safer because time spent learning how to sail the vessel
competently is increased because maintenance and trouble-shooting time is
decreased. If you've been following the soap opera that is the Skip Gundlach
show you will know exactly what I'm talking about as the bulk of his time
seems to be spent as an aground (and sometimes water-borne) grease monkey,
electrician, plumber, carpenter, etc.

While some of you who are on the younger side of the spectrum find this
interesting and challenging, I would argue than elderly folks have been
there/done that and would rather be sailing than mucking around with grease
up their elbows squinting at things they can hardly see anymore and busting
their fragile skin and knuckles on sharp objects or straining their
skeletons and musculature attempting to squeeze into awkward positions or
lifting heavy objects.

On the subject of the Fortress aluminum anchor let me say this. Every real
sailor knows that a light aluminum anchor is a joke in anything but ideal
conditions. If there is a stout current running which is the case in many
anchorages the damned things are worst than useless. They fly like a kite in
the current and likely will never grab bottom. People who are sold on
Fortress anchors are duffers who are obviously inexperienced lake and calm
water sailors. People like that certainly are NOT to be considered qualified
blue water sailors for their disregard for prudence and safety is readily
apparent.

For those of you who wish information, a Danforth or Fortress is a fine
anchor in some conditions such as sand, but not nearly as good in oyster
or rock.

One should carry a variety of anchors suited to a variety of bottom types.
That's quite obvious but each and every one should be of a size that a
crewman or woman can hand without mechanical/electrical assistance because
sooner or later systems will fail and the safety of the yacht compromised.
This means a smaller yacht is called for when smaller abilities are
contained therein. Light aluminum anchors have no place on a well-found
ocean going yacht. They are a joke, an illusion and a travesty. That they
continued to be sold is a commentary on how sailing has become just another
bastion of the sloppy and inept.


Personally, I see no issues with an electric windless (or capstan). I've
never heard of a boat being permanently anchored due to the windless
failing to weigh anchor. Have you?

Permanent, no! Delayed, yes oftentimes. Real sailors brook no delay based on
the frivolous or an imagined necessity that, in reality, is little more than
a ball and chain?

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

heavily snipped-Wilbur seems to think that older people are all decrepit
and unfit

On the subject of the Fortress aluminum anchor let me say this. Every
real
sailor knows that a light aluminum anchor is a joke in anything but ideal
conditions.

Wilbur got that right anyway. And Fortress anchors are not even solid. some
parts are held on with little screws!