The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

heavily snipped-Wilbur seems to think that older people are all decrepit
and unfit

Because they all ARE! It's a biological fact that the elderly are much
diminished from their mental and physical capacites they embodied in their
prime. It's nothing to be ashamed of but it IS something that should be
taken into consideration. To deny aging equates to diminished capacity is to
deny reality.


On the subject of the Fortress aluminum anchor let me say this. Every
real
sailor knows that a light aluminum anchor is a joke in anything but ideal
conditions.

Wilbur got that right anyway. And Fortress anchors are not even solid.
some parts are held on with little screws!

At least there still remains to you some common sense. When I stated that
Fortress anchors are a joke I meant every word of it.

An aluminum anchor is tantamount to a lead balloon! There exists a market
for such garbage only because of stupid, ignorant or crazy people.

Wilbur Hubbard

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

Gogarty wrote:

My Lumar Concept 1 can let the anchor go in free fall so even if the windlass
fails one can anchor the boat. But you can't use a winch handle to bring it
back up. With a Delta 35 and all chain rode, we pray a lot that the windlass
does not fail. One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.


The old square riggers used an endless line on the capstan that attached
to the anchor cable via "nippers".

Could be done that way with lines on the winch hooked to the chain?

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels
get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the
spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the
vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the
same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).
The other way is to use an undersize anchor and lifting become much easier
as well as dragging when the wind starts to freshen up. I never had a
windlass for decades with my previous boat using a 13 pounds Danford.
Now, with my new boat I carry three anchors, two of 35 pounds each and one
of 18 pounds. Having pulled my old Danford for decades I appreciate the
electric windlass. My windlass will not work unless the boat engine is on.
Should the windlass becomes not operational I can always return to my basic
training to pull the anchor or use one of the winches.

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:51:23 -0300, wrote
this crap:

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.


For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the

Yeah. So what?


same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).


35 lbs. is hardly more than a sixteen pound bowling ball in each hand.
If you can't handle that... shape up or ship out.

My sixteen year old nephew can pull up the anchor.





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


Sail size is also important. But, it is often stated by competent sailors
who write about such things that a man in good physical condition can hand
and/or reef individual sails up to 500 square feet each even in strong
winds. This size sail can be found on boats up to about forty feet LOA which
vessels require anchors in the 50-60 pound range to be held securely in a
storm.

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight.

My personal experience does not agree. My 42' boat has a displacement of
roughly 33,000 lbs. It has a mainsail area of roughly 450 feet. I have
no problems weighing anchor of 65 lbs with a reasonable lead of chain /
rope rode, but I do have a serious issue handling the mainsail in heavy
weather. Even with jiffy reefing, taking in a reef or furling the
mainsail for running bare is a major issue while anchoring has always
been rather simple.

I have never tried anchoring in, say, 15 fathoms with an all chain rode,
but then the mass of the anchor isn't really the issue as much as the
rode. So a 10 lb anchor with that rode would be as difficult as the 65
(pretty much) meaning a Mac 26 would be as much a problem as my Tayana
42. Thus, as I said, the limiting factor isn't boat size or anchor
weight but really, sail area.

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:41:41 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.

The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

They also had a crew of 400 men.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:51:23 -0300, wrote:


"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels
get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the
spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the
vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the
same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).
The other way is to use an undersize anchor and lifting become much easier
as well as dragging when the wind starts to freshen up. I never had a
windlass for decades with my previous boat using a 13 pounds Danford.
Now, with my new boat I carry three anchors, two of 35 pounds each and one
of 18 pounds. Having pulled my old Danford for decades I appreciate the
electric windlass. My windlass will not work unless the boat engine is on.
Should the windlass becomes not operational I can always return to my basic
training to pull the anchor or use one of the winches.



I'll add a bit to that. You have, say a 40 pound of anchor, anchored
in say 30 feet of somewhat exposed water so you have a 5:1 scope out.
The wind is blowing onshore at say 7 MPH. You are single handed.

I guarantee that you will appreciate having a powered windlass!

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On 2008-04-14 13:27:55 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

Because they all ARE! It's a biological fact that the elderly are much
diminished from their mental and physical capacites they embodied in their
prime. It's nothing to be ashamed of but it IS something that should be
taken into consideration. To deny aging equates to diminished capacity is to
deny reality.

But to assert that they are incapable is to deny reality as well.

It's not an either-or, but a "both" solution. My wife can't manhandle
systems on our boat the way I do. She needs winch handles, for
instance, and couldn't easily haul our current anchor and chain by
hand. She's a little girl and never had that sort of strength.

But she can handle a properly set-up 46' cat as easily as our pocket
cruiser once she learns the systems.

All it takes is adapting your systems and techniques to the available skills.

Sometimes the system needed *is* a smaller boat. We have a few people
on our docks who aren't old or particularly incapable, but don't go out
single-handed. They should have smaller boats. (Some got sailing dinks
for knocking around.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

The answer ISN"T an electric or a bigger windlass
 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:46:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I have no
qualms about my Fortress standing up to the strains that sand, mud, or
gravel can put on it.

They're OK for certain conditions but I regard them as a special
purpose anchor. They will frequently not set in adverse conditions
such as:

- from a moving boat (anchor planes through water or skips along the
bottom).

- strong currents (see above).

- unfavorable bottom (hard, weedy, rocky, etc).

All danforth type anchors have a strong propensity for becoming fouled
in reversing tide or wind conditions. They excel however in high
holding power for their weight *if* properly set, and if the load
direction does not change more than a small amount.