Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
However discussing the ability of any boat to withstand the sea is a
highly subjective subject as in a serious storm any boat can be
overwhelmed.


And don't overlook or underestimate the knockdown. I've seen this
happen on small & medium sized
keelboats: the a heavy gust blows the boat over far enough to put the
boom in the water, at which point the keel has lost effectiveness as a
foil & the boat is being shoved sideways... putting increasing
pressure from water flow on the mainsail & boom, dragging the rig
under... boat inverts and may have a pretty strong tendency to stay
that way. No wave action necessary.


Heaving to, for example is a good tactic... until the waves get high
enough that they are breaking and you may well be rolled. On the other
hand, running off is a good tactic until the waves become steep enough
that your drogues cannot slow you sufficiently and you bury the bow in
the trough of the wave and pitch pole.


And if the drogue *does* slow you sufficiently, then you are being
pulled through a breaking crest and being hammered by truckloads of
water at 60+. There is no bulletproof "right answer."

Furthermore, the sea can be destructive beyond belief. I've seen one
of those V-shaped depression gales generate sea conditions that ripped
welded steel fittings off a US Navy vessel. IMHO there is *no*
cruising sailboat... or racer either, for that matter... which could
have survived those local conditions, no matter what her equipment or
tactics. The only answer is to be elsewhere when it gets that bad.

DSK

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
However discussing the ability of any boat to withstand the sea is a
highly subjective subject as in a serious storm any boat can be
overwhelmed.


And don't overlook or underestimate the knockdown. I've seen this
happen on small & medium sized
keelboats: the a heavy gust blows the boat over far enough to put the
boom in the water, at which point the keel has lost effectiveness as a
foil & the boat is being shoved sideways... putting increasing
pressure from water flow on the mainsail & boom, dragging the rig
under... boat inverts and may have a pretty strong tendency to stay
that way. No wave action necessary.


I had exactly this experience. Carrying a full main and 150% genoa
sailing along off a fairly long island in light air. We came to a cut,
or valley in the hills on the island and Wham the spreaders were in
the water.

As the boat heeled the rudder lost effectiveness and the boat rounded
up and nearly before I could realize what was happening we were
upright headed nearly into the wind.

Just to add insult to injury, after I got the boat moving (and the
pulse rate down) we proceeded along the coast still in light air.
Well, about 45 minutes later we came to another notch in the hills and
the same thing happened again.

So, in my limited experience, in a heavy displacement medium length
keel boat the ballast will pull the boat back upright with the mast
horizontal and at least some off the sails in the water.



Heaving to, for example is a good tactic... until the waves get high
enough that they are breaking and you may well be rolled. On the other
hand, running off is a good tactic until the waves become steep enough
that your drogues cannot slow you sufficiently and you bury the bow in
the trough of the wave and pitch pole.


And if the drogue *does* slow you sufficiently, then you are being
pulled through a breaking crest and being hammered by truckloads of
water at 60+. There is no bulletproof "right answer."

Furthermore, the sea can be destructive beyond belief. I've seen one
of those V-shaped depression gales generate sea conditions that ripped
welded steel fittings off a US Navy vessel. IMHO there is *no*
cruising sailboat... or racer either, for that matter... which could
have survived those local conditions, no matter what her equipment or
tactics. The only answer is to be elsewhere when it gets that bad.

DSK


You are correct - we take out life in out hands every time we go
sailing; ride in airplanes; drive a car. Hell! some people die
shoveling the snow off the driveway. Life is just a dangerous business
to be in.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
However discussing the ability of any boat to withstand the sea is a
highly subjective subject as in a serious storm any boat can be
overwhelmed.


And don't overlook or underestimate the knockdown. I've seen this
happen on small & medium sized
keelboats: the a heavy gust blows the boat over far enough to put the
boom in the water, at which point the keel has lost effectiveness as a
foil & the boat is being shoved sideways... putting increasing
pressure from water flow on the mainsail & boom, dragging the rig
under... boat inverts and may have a pretty strong tendency to stay
that way. No wave action necessary.


I had exactly this experience. Carrying a full main and 150% genoa
sailing along off a fairly long island in light air. We came to a cut,
or valley in the hills on the island and Wham the spreaders were in
the water.

As the boat heeled the rudder lost effectiveness and the boat rounded
up and nearly before I could realize what was happening we were
upright headed nearly into the wind.

Just to add insult to injury, after I got the boat moving (and the
pulse rate down) we proceeded along the coast still in light air.
Well, about 45 minutes later we came to another notch in the hills and
the same thing happened again.

So, in my limited experience, in a heavy displacement medium length
keel boat the ballast will pull the boat back upright with the mast
horizontal and at least some off the sails in the water.


I had an interesting experience with a Merit (25?) years ago. I was sailing
in the south bay, where there are occasional small tornado-like whirlwinds
coming from the marsh land. They're packing 40kts or so (total guess on my
part), but are very small. They are very unpredictable, as we found out. We
saw one quite a way off, and it was moving away from us. We were looking
elsewhere, when it basically knocked us down while we were close hauled. The
main touched the water before we could do anything, then the boat popped
right back and we continued sailing. Now that was a thrill ride.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com