mortem analysis
 

I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe

mortem analysis
 

"Joe" wrote in message
...
I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe


No one executes a plan perfectly the first time. A good plan has flexibility
to allow for schedule slips due to unforseen circumstances.

Do you think sailing closer to the coast when the bad weather potential
exists would give you the option to sit out the bad weather in a sheltered
area?

My condolences for your loss. Are you absolutely certain Red Cloud is gone?
Did you put the word out for others down the coast to look for her? It might
be worth chartering a small plane and flying the coast to take a look
Someone might have towed her in and just never reported it for whatever
reason.

mortem analysis
 

"Joe" wrote in message
...
I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe



Joe, Sorry for you loss.. truly. As I've learned many times over, no one is
perfect... I hope you get a fair settlement from the insurance, and I'm sure
you'll get another shot at your dream.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

mortem analysis
 

On Jan 9, 11:56*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...





I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe

Joe, Sorry for you loss.. truly. As I've learned many times over, no one is
perfect... I hope you get a fair settlement from the insurance, and I'm sure
you'll get another shot at your dream.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

insurance? You ever try to insure a 30 YO steel boat?

Joe

mortem analysis
 

On Jan 9, 8:59*pm, "Bob Crantz" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...





I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe

No one executes a plan perfectly the first time. A good plan has flexibility
to allow for schedule slips due to unforseen circumstances.

Agreeded, I had scheduled in a couple weeks of flexibility.

Do you think sailing closer to the coast when the bad weather potential
exists would give you the option to sit out the bad weather in a sheltered
area?

You think sailing coastal from Houston to the Yuccatan would be an
option? Mexico does not afford many helpful options on that course
until you reach Isla Contoy heading south.


My condolences for your loss. Are you absolutely certain Red Cloud is gone?

No...I did not see her on the bottom. However the epirb was left in
the wheelhouse, and we found it free floating.

Maybe Vito of San Pedro now has her and has re-named her "Fist of
Fury" on one side, and "enter the Dragon" on the other. He wants to be
a pirate of the Carribean.

Did you put the word out for others down the coast to look for her?

Yes the whole MM fleet is aware and looking.


It might
be worth chartering a small plane and flying the coast to take a look
Someone might have towed her in and just never reported it for whatever
reason.

She's gone Bob.

Joe


- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

mortem analysis
 

On Jan 9, 9:02 pm, Joe wrote:
I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.



Joe, it's shocking and saddening to hear that Red Cloud is gone. What
happened on the recovery trip? It sounds like the weather was still
pretty bad.

On our trip, we have been rather chicken about the weather, gotten
socked a few times but only for a short time & near shelter; nothing
like what you all were contending with.

What's next? We hope that things will move forward for you, best of
luck!

Sincerely
Doug King

mortem analysis
 

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Jan 9, 11:56 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...





I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe

Joe, Sorry for you loss.. truly. As I've learned many times over, no one
is
perfect... I hope you get a fair settlement from the insurance, and I'm
sure
you'll get another shot at your dream.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

insurance? You ever try to insure a 30 YO steel boat?

Joe


No, but it was a nice thought. Mine isn't steel and over 20, but it's
insured.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

mortem analysis
 

On Jan 10, 10:00*am, wrote:
On Jan 9, 9:02 pm, Joe wrote:





I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

*I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

*Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

Joe, it's shocking and saddening to hear that Red Cloud is gone. What
happened on the recovery trip? It sounds like the weather was still
pretty bad.

On our trip, we have been rather chicken about the weather, gotten
socked a few times but only for a short time & near shelter; nothing
like what you all were contending with.

What's next? We hope that things will move forward for you, best of
luck!

Sincerely
Doug King- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Next? That chapter is still un-written..I'd like to finish what I
started.

Weather:

It was ok and the trawler was a top notch vessel..Steel Bruce Roberts
Wayward 50. Worst we saw were 12 fters. Running she settles in nicely,
working a search grid @ 1-2 kts on a moonless night was murder. I
mentioned the boat here about 8 years ago when the previous owner
died. Nice guy, but he had a serious medical condition he tried to
hide. I had taken him to the hospital once, and he was found wandering
the street not knowing who he was, he soon passed at the hospital. I
became friends of the new owner and admired his boat and helped him
out when I could. What comes around goes around for real with sailors,
I just happened to be on the needing side of things this time.

Joe

mortem analysis
 

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Jan 9, 11:56 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

...





I broke the golden rule of sailing, and let other things change my
weather window enough it got me.

I had legal delays, getting equipment delays, tropical storm delays,
cargo un-loading delays, cargo loading delays. over 3 weeks in delays,
just long enough to get one off thoses bad ass gulf northers that I
had carefully scheduled to avoid at all cost. And this one was badder
and bigger then anything I've ever see on the gulf...with over 400K
miles traveled.

Not the cargo, or the boat, or the crew. We sailed RedCloud full out
and she loved it, we had no aux since Isla Contoy,,,no big deal we
were still making an average of 4kts even with a few dead in the water
days..heck, the night before the storm in 35 kt winds and 15 ft
seas... RedCloud came alive like I've never seen.... she was flying
and in tune I was in awe, mother nature provided a show beyond
anything you could ever imagine in your wildest dreams, my best watch
and night ever at sea.., I'd trade that night for nothing.

What will I do different next time, if I get another shot?

Demand that my schedule is meet or re-schedule or cancel.

Joe

Joe, Sorry for you loss.. truly. As I've learned many times over, no one
is
perfect... I hope you get a fair settlement from the insurance, and I'm
sure
you'll get another shot at your dream.

--
"j" ganz - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

insurance? You ever try to insure a 30 YO steel boat?

Joe


I guess that sort of begs the questions... did you attempt to get insurance
and/or why was it denied? Is it a factor of the boat material, the age, or a
combination?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

mortem analysis
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:35:57 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

that sort of begs the questions.

One of my hobby horses, Jon. Do a quick Google search for "begging the
question."

The error is so widespread that I'm probably defending the Alamo here.


Seems like I used it properly.... Joe didn't provide a complete explanation,
which is common usage for the last 20 years or so.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com