Fractional sailing?
 

Greetings all,

Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am new to the group. Has
anyone had experience with what seems essentially to be a boat time-share
lease, i.e. sharing the use of a boat with several other people, but never
owning it? I was perusing boat ads the other day and ran across one such
outfit and it seemed like a good deal, which immediately made me suspicious.
Anyone here ever tried this type of thing?

Thanks,

Steve

Fractional sailing?
 

On Sep 28, 9:36 pm, "Steve" wrote:
Greetings all,

Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am new to the group. Has
anyone had experience with what seems essentially to be a boat time-share
lease, i.e. sharing the use of a boat with several other people, but never
owning it? I was perusing boat ads the other day and ran across one such
outfit and it seemed like a good deal, which immediately made me suspicious.
Anyone here ever tried this type of thing?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Steve,
I think it is rediculous. You have a yacht in Greece and someone else
has a boat in Uk etc. So you can choose from a list where you wanto go
every year.
I wouldnt like someone using my yacht! It like timesharing.

Stelios
www.sig.gr

Fractional sailing?
 

"Steve" wrote:
Greetings all,

Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am new to the group. Has
anyone had experience with what seems essentially to be a boat time-share
lease, i.e. sharing the use of a boat with several other people, but never
owning it? I was perusing boat ads the other day and ran across one such
outfit and it seemed like a good deal, which immediately made me suspicious.
Anyone here ever tried this type of thing?


Several, I think.

I've owned boats in partenrship, and it is not suited to my
personality. Part of it is the inevitable bickering over maintenance
exenses, which made me want to just smack them over the head... we did
not have any repair issues, thank goodness, that can be even thornier.
Just let me say: Buy a small boat you can afford rather than ruining a
friendship going in partners on a big one... or, if you must have a
big boat, go in partners with somebody you hate already.

Places like J-World or Club Nautique can also be a pretty good deal,
but part of what you pay for is professional management of the boat(s)
and expenses, and you have a limited range of options for use. Still,
it's much cheaper per-hour than owning one of the boats yourself....
unless you really have good maintenance skills and use the boat a lot.

Walking around almost any marina or sailing club, you'll see millions
of dollars sitting idle 99.99% of the time.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Fractional sailing?
 

On Sep 28, 9:47 pm, wrote:
"Steve" wrote:
Greetings all,

Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am new to the group. Has
anyone had experience with what seems essentially to be a boat time-share
lease, i.e. sharing the use of a boat with several other people, but never
owning it? I was perusing boat ads the other day and ran across one such
outfit and it seemed like a good deal, which immediately made me suspicious.
Anyone here ever tried this type of thing?

Several, I think.

I've owned boats in partenrship, and it is not suited to my
personality. Part of it is the inevitable bickering over maintenance
exenses, which made me want to just smack them over the head... we did
not have any repair issues, thank goodness, that can be even thornier.
Just let me say: Buy a small boat you can afford rather than ruining a
friendship going in partners on a big one... or, if you must have a
big boat, go in partners with somebody you hate already.

Places like J-World or Club Nautique can also be a pretty good deal,
but part of what you pay for is professional management of the boat(s)
and expenses, and you have a limited range of options for use. Still,
it's much cheaper per-hour than owning one of the boats yourself....
unless you really have good maintenance skills and use the boat a lot.

Walking around almost any marina or sailing club, you'll see millions
of dollars sitting idle 99.99% of the time.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug:

Your last sentence says a lot. Not being used seems to be worse for a
boat than moderate use. So, how to address this problem? For a
cruising boat, I cannot think of a way but for racing boats a racing
club might be the way.

Fractional sailing?
 

wrote in message
ps.com...
"Steve" wrote:
Greetings all,

Pardon me if this has been discussed before but I am new to the group.
Has
anyone had experience with what seems essentially to be a boat time-share
lease, i.e. sharing the use of a boat with several other people, but
never
owning it? I was perusing boat ads the other day and ran across one such
outfit and it seemed like a good deal, which immediately made me
suspicious.
Anyone here ever tried this type of thing?


Several, I think.

I've owned boats in partenrship, and it is not suited to my
personality. Part of it is the inevitable bickering over maintenance
exenses, which made me want to just smack them over the head... we did
not have any repair issues, thank goodness, that can be even thornier.
Just let me say: Buy a small boat you can afford rather than ruining a
friendship going in partners on a big one... or, if you must have a
big boat, go in partners with somebody you hate already.

Places like J-World or Club Nautique can also be a pretty good deal,
but part of what you pay for is professional management of the boat(s)
and expenses, and you have a limited range of options for use. Still,
it's much cheaper per-hour than owning one of the boats yourself....
unless you really have good maintenance skills and use the boat a lot.

Walking around almost any marina or sailing club, you'll see millions
of dollars sitting idle 99.99% of the time.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I agree with all that Doug has said, but you also have to consider that
there is always the possibility that the another guy who shares the boat and
had it out just before you will find himself unable to get back at the end
of his time because either he went too far downwind or else the weather went
against him on his way back. So you arrive to pick the boat up when it is
your turn and you find it is not there waiting for you Big difference from
a timeshare property!
Also consider that it is likely to be very hard to sell your share when you
are tired of the deal. Take Doug's advice and buy a boat you can afford and
can sell when you want to trade up.

Fractional sailing?
 

I've owned boats in partenrship, and it is not suited to my
personality. Part of it is the inevitable bickering over
maintenance



I owned my fist boat in partnership and had no problems. Of course
Doug did since he's an asshole.
Two or more affable sailors can certainly own a boat together and I
know more than a few that do this. Owning a 40 foot boat with a
partner or two MIGHT be more rewarding than owning a 28 foot boat on
your own, but that depends on your requirements and expectations.


Cheers,


RB
35s5
NY

Fractional sailing?
 

Walking around almost any marina or sailing club, you'll see millions
of dollars sitting idle 99.99% of the time.


Frogwatch wrote:
Your last sentence says a lot. Not being used seems to be worse for a
boat than moderate use.

That seems true from what I've seen. What's worse, the owners of boats
that sit for years tend to think of the boat as being still spanking
new, so when they do show up for that once-in-three-years sail (and
I'm not kidding) they get into trouble with engine problems, dead
batteries, sun-rotted gear, etc etc.


.... So, how to address this problem? For a
cruising boat, I cannot think of a way but for racing boats a racing
club might be the way.

For racing, one way is to have fleet-owned one design boats. Buy in at
the crew level, a higher buy-in for skippers; mandatory maintenance
hours or a fee that will more than cover needed work (most people
would rather pay, so you have to make the fee at least slightly
punitive). There are actually a number of clubs that do this around
the Chesapeake; don't know about other areas.

For cruising, the answer is to use the boat a lot. Mulitple
benefits... you don't have a lot of capital lying idle, you learn the
ins & outs of the boat, you have more fun.


"Edgar" wrote:

..... you also have to consider that
there is always the possibility that the another guy who shares the boat and
had it out just before you will find himself unable to get back at the end
of his time because either he went too far downwind or else the weather went
against him on his way back. So you arrive to pick the boat up when it is
your turn and you find it is not there waiting for you Big difference from
a timeshare property!

Or one of the partners has damaged the boat and not fixed it because
he didn't notice, or didn't know how, or "didn't have time". Never
happened to us but is common. Some friends of ours who owned a nice 37-
footer in partnership had the partners' family leave the head valves
open, so the boat flooded with a skim nice fresh potty-flush floating
on top. That one ended up in court as they argued about not only who
was supposed to pay for totally stripping & cleaning the inside of
boat, replacing cushions, etc etc. That one *really* ruined a
friendship and a family relationship as well.

The boats I owned in partnership were all racers and the partners were
quite good sailors. We had quite an extenensive & effective agreement,
for example we agreed to flip a coin before every race to determine
who would skipper. We also had to kick in a fixed amount monthly above
expenses, so that money was always on hand in the "boat fund."

It was actually a valuable experience because I got to campaign 2
boats I could not have afforded otherwise and learned first-hand that
a hard-racing keelboat is like a cocaine habit, you simply spend as
much money as you can lay hands on once it gets hold of you.

Also consider that it is likely to be very hard to sell your share when you
are tired of the deal. Take Doug's advice and buy a boat you can afford and
can sell when you want to trade up.


You also won't be caught in a financial trap like all the yuppies
currently moaning over their McMansion ARMs.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Fractional sailing?
 

wrote:
The idea that the overwhelming majority of boats never sail is a bunch of
baloney.

Maybe in the marinas & sailing clubs that you have been to.


.... People have different schedules. I'll bet there are people who think my
boat never leaves the dock, simply because we have different schedules.

And the dockmaster(s) who are there all day, every day? The retired
guys who hang out there? You may have a "different schedule" but if
there's never anybody else there to see you, then that would tend to
prove my point that other boats aren't getting sailed much.


Doug is flat out wrong.

Occasionally happens, but not this time.

Ask any dockmaster or club manager what percent of boats get taken out
twice a year or less.

DSK

Fractional sailing?
 

Doug is flat out wrong.

Occasionally happens, but not this time.


Most of the boats, power and sail, at our club see a lot of use. A
very few don't. I used to think Doug's comment had some truth to it,
but not any more. Once I spent more time at my club I realized that
only a few boats sat without use. Of course Doug walks around asking
dockmasters about the sailboats that don't sail!!!
Anyone believe THAT???


BWAHAHAHHAHAAHA! We sailed today. Doug did not. Doug does not have a
sailboat.



RB
35s5
NY

Fractional sailing?
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Doug is flat out wrong.


Occasionally happens, but not this time.


Most of the boats, power and sail, at our club see a lot of use. A
very few don't. I used to think Doug's comment had some truth to it,
but not any more. Once I spent more time at my club I realized that
only a few boats sat without use. Of course Doug walks around asking
dockmasters about the sailboats that don't sail!!!
Anyone believe THAT???


BWAHAHAHHAHAAHA! We sailed today. Doug did not. Doug does not have a
sailboat.



RB
35s5
NY

Seeing that I sail out of the same marina as Doug, I can verify that.
Our dickmaster makes active note of who sails what when where and why
and can tell you exactly how many times each boat leaves the dock. He
also keeps track of time that each boat leaves, looks out for when you
return and is waiting on the dock for you...he is probably one of the
most "in the know" guys I have ever seen..he makes it his business to
know everything going on in our marina...and there are a lot of boats
that never go out...their owners are living way far away and only make
it there for long vacations...