Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Today looks even better! Get out there, peoples!

Heart of Gold leaves at 1:00.

Maybe Bart will show up an surprise me! North Side, Bart, channel 77
on the VHF. I'll be aboard by noon setting up a smaller headsail.
Looks windy!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

On Sep 1, 8:08 am, "Capt. Rob" wrote:
Today looks even better! Get out there, peoples!

Heart of Gold leaves at 1:00.

Maybe Bart will show up an surprise me! North Side, Bart, channel 77
on the VHF. I'll be aboard by noon setting up a smaller headsail.
Looks windy!

RB
35s5
NY

Give me a bit more notice next time. And more
explicit direction.

Winds were perfect today. Give us a report.

I was sanding gelcoat. I'm going out tomorrow for sure.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Winds were pretty good. But they died down more and more as we sailed.
It was a nice sail, but I damaged the leech cord in my 120% and that
****ed me off, even if the repair will be free. I have yet to hoist my
new sail, which is a 150%. I want to try it on a quiet day.
It was blowing just short of whitecaps for the 1st couple of hours.
It's so funny when it blows like that because the heavy stuff comes
out....Cape Dory's, Southern Crosses, Valiants and a lot of old wood
stuff that can really play in a good breeze. There were a ton of
classics out sailing and a real show for our guests in from Ireland.
Next time I'll give you more notice and careful directions. I had a
lot of people on board yesterday, but little help sailing the boat.
That can be a PIA at times.

It's an amazing weather weekend so far.



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Winds were pretty good. But they died down more and more as we sailed.
It was a nice sail, but I damaged the leech cord in my 120% and that
****ed me off, even if the repair will be free. I have yet to hoist my
new sail, which is a 150%. I want to try it on a quiet day.
It was blowing just short of whitecaps for the 1st couple of hours.
It's so funny when it blows like that because the heavy stuff comes
out....Cape Dory's, Southern Crosses, Valiants and a lot of old wood
stuff that can really play in a good breeze. There were a ton of
classics out sailing and a real show for our guests in from Ireland.
Next time I'll give you more notice and careful directions. I had a
lot of people on board yesterday, but little help sailing the boat.
That can be a PIA at times.

It's an amazing weather weekend so far.

It is clear to me that you do not have the ability(/or crew?) to change your
foresail when the wind changes from the strength it was when you went out. I
said as much in a recent post. For the sort of sailing you do you would be
much better off with a roller jib cut high enough to clear the guard rails,
then you could roll up a bit when the wind increases instead of messing up a
new foresail in winds too great for it.
It is really silly to get a 150% deck sweeper-you are sure to blow it out
because you do not have the ability/crew to replace it with a smaller one
when the wind gets up. Face up to it-despite all your talk about speed and
racing your sailing outings are pleasure trips. There is nothing wrong with
that but you do not face up to the reality of it and rig your boat
accordingly..

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

On Sep 2, 12:59 pm, "Edgar" wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

ups.com...



Winds were pretty good. But they died down more and more as we sailed.
It was a nice sail, but I damaged the leech cord in my 120% and that
****ed me off, even if the repair will be free. I have yet to hoist my
new sail, which is a 150%. I want to try it on a quiet day.
It was blowing just short of whitecaps for the 1st couple of hours.
It's so funny when it blows like that because the heavy stuff comes
out....Cape Dory's, Southern Crosses, Valiants and a lot of old wood
stuff that can really play in a good breeze. There were a ton of
classics out sailing and a real show for our guests in from Ireland.
Next time I'll give you more notice and careful directions. I had a
lot of people on board yesterday, but little help sailing the boat.
That can be a PIA at times.

It's an amazing weather weekend so far.

It is clear to me that you do not have the ability(/or crew?) to change your
foresail when the wind changes from the strength it was when you went out. I
said as much in a recent post. For the sort of sailing you do you would be
much better off with a roller jib cut high enough to clear the guard rails,
then you could roll up a bit when the wind increases instead of messing up a
new foresail in winds too great for it.
It is really silly to get a 150% deck sweeper-you are sure to blow it out
because you do not have the ability/crew to replace it with a smaller one
when the wind gets up. Face up to it-despite all your talk about speed and
racing your sailing outings are pleasure trips. There is nothing wrong with
that but you do not face up to the reality of it and rig your boat
accordingly..







Edgar, Heart of Gold is a fractionally rigged 35s5. Headsails on these
boats are fairly small, with most of the power coming from the huge
mainsail. Currently I'm flying a 120% Pentax Mylar genoa, which I do
roller reef (as we did yesterday) when it's breezy. I've reefed down
the main a few times, but rarely find the need. When it's really
blowing, I roll up of the genoa and these boats sail like big fast
dinghies under main alone. We did hull speed with just main yesterday.
sliding past a lot of boats on a close reach, including a large
Nonsuch which Jeff insists is a quick boat.
Before I bought the 35s5 I spoke with owners about what they used.
Many felt than to get reasonable drive from the headsail, they needed
a 150% and found that to be their #1 cruising and daysailing sail.
With higher winds they'd reef down to 125% or so.
It takes a VERY windy day for Heart of Gold to have any problems.
Yesterday we went out with the correct headsail, but a bit more would
have been nice as the day went on. We basically sailed under full
main, reefed genoa and then full genoa. I chose not to fly the new
150% because:

1) I was not convinced wind conditions would continue to diminish.
2) I was shorthanded and busy with guests.
3) The boat was making 6 knots plus and doing fine anyway. If it aint
broke, don't fix it.

I'd rather not get involved with headsail changes for a short daysail.
The 150% should be a great all around sail for 35s5 as it's far
smaller than the ones found on a masthead rig.
As for my talk about racing and speed....I like a fast boat, but I
don't have interest in racing and rarely do it. My boat is outfitted
for the fun daysails we usually do. My kevlar/mylar sails are overkill
to be sure. But they cost me less than what folks pay for dacron and
are pretty durable. I think they look good as well.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...lighterair.jpg

My friends, out in their own boats, can always find us! A J120 sailed
by us yesterday and said, "Nice mainsail!" I couldn't catch him to say
thanks.



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:


We did hull speed with just main yesterday.
sliding past a lot of boats on a close reach, including a large
Nonsuch which Jeff insists is a quick boat.

This is such a ludicrous fabrication its laughable. If there was enough
wind for a 35s5 to do hull speed under main alone (that's only 232 sq
ft) then a Nonsuch 36 with 742 sq ft and a hull speed a half knot higher
would have had no trouble walking away from it. Of course, it might
have been a smaller NS, or it could have been reefed, or maybe it was
anchored, but most likely booby just made the whole thing up.

I would certainly admit the the 35s5 is a faster boat than the NS36, but
the difference is only a few minutes on a 10 mile course. Given that
the Nonsuch is a very comfortable cruising boat that is extremely easy
to singlehand, that's not much of a difference. And on a close reach
with a breeze, the Nonsuch design holds its own against a lot of other
boats. I never had any trouble keeping up or even passing most 32-34
footers in my Nonsuch 30 on a close reach.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

On Sep 2, 9:21 am, "Capt. Rob" wrote:
Winds were pretty good. But they died down more and more as we sailed.
It was a nice sail, but I damaged the leech cord in my 120% and that
****ed me off, even if the repair will be free. I have yet to hoist my
new sail, which is a 150%. I want to try it on a quiet day.
It was blowing just short of whitecaps for the 1st couple of hours.
It's so funny when it blows like that because the heavy stuff comes
out....Cape Dory's, Southern Crosses, Valiants and a lot of old wood
stuff that can really play in a good breeze. There were a ton of
classics out sailing and a real show for our guests in from Ireland.
Next time I'll give you more notice and careful directions. I had a
lot of people on board yesterday, but little help sailing the boat.
That can be a PIA at times.

It's an amazing weather weekend so far.

RB
35s5
NY

No kidding. I had a boat load of people on ECHO who didn't
know how to sail. Coming in my transmission cable broke
again. It made for some exciting docking. Fortunately I got
a spring line over a winch just in time.

I've decided I'm taking the telegraph cables out of the binnacle
and putting in a single control. I haven't taken it apart yet, but
I've had this failure before. It is time to devise a bullet proof
system.

This was a very new cable, and it is a beastly job to snake
them up the binnacle. It requires loosening the quadrant
cables and a lot of hanging upside down. I just need to chose
a good place for the controls that is out of the way.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

This is such a ludicrous fabrication its laughable. If there was
enough
wind for a 35s5 to do hull speed under main alone (that's only 232 sq
ft)


How many sq. feet, Jeff???? You might want to check that again. You're
a BIT off!


then a Nonsuch 36 with 742 sq ft and a hull speed a half knot
higher
would have had no trouble walking away from it.


Jeff, seriously, you CAN'T be any kind of real sailor. LWL is not the
end all for speed. MAYBE you know that. Maybe not. My friend's J29 has
less LWL than the 35s5. He'll exceed his hull speed faster than we
will. A boat like the 35s5 will do better than hull speed, even with
her main on a day like that. Our average over an hour was 6.7 knots.
The Nonsuch was right there with us for about 3 minutes.

Of course, it might
have been a smaller NS, or it could have been reefed, or maybe it was
anchored, but most likely booby just made the whole thing up.


Hey, if that's what floats your radiator....cool.


I would certainly admit the the 35s5 is a faster boat than the
NS36


Golly! Really? I thought you said the Nonsuch will walk away from a
35s5.


Given that
the Nonsuch is a very comfortable cruising boat that is extremely
easy
to singlehand, that's not much of a difference.


Sure it is because the 35s5 is more fun to sail. And I've sailed a
Nonsuch and a Freedom 36 as well. Mark in this very group owned the
Freedom and it's a great boat, but not the kind of sailing we prefer.


And on a close reach
with a breeze, the Nonsuch design holds its own against a lot of
other
boats. I never had any trouble keeping up or even passing most 32-34
footers in my Nonsuch 30 on a close reach.


I'm sure we're all happy that the Nonsuch worked well for you on that
point of sail. We kind of like the 35s5, and the J boats we sail. They
tend to be fun and fast on all points of sail.




RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Everyone should remember that the Boobs floating French designer condo
will "semi plane"

35s5....up on semi plane

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

On Sep 3, 12:42 am, Ringmaster wrote:
Everyone should remember that the Boobs floating French designer condo
will "semi plane"

35s5....up on semi plane



Sloco's ignorance knows no bounds!
He doesn't even know what a semi-planing sailboat is!

FOR A POWERBOAT
THE SEMI-PLANING HULL

The typical semi-planing hull is a development of the pure
displacement hull - with sharp and deep forward sections fairing into
full rounded aft sections. The major difference between displacement
and semi-displacement hulls is in the buttocks.
On a displacement hull, the buttocks will run up aft while the
waterlines are coming in toward the centerline. If the desire is for
more speed, both the waterlines and the buttocks must be straightened
to reduce the tendency to squat. A semi-planing hull is essentially a
displacement hull with straighter buttocks ending at a broad transom
that has some immersion.

FOR A SAILBOAT
Rather a function of ultimate weight limitations, the semi planing
sailing vessel has no lifting keel and has a flattened hull section
that will lift the forward section of the boat. Weight and drag aft
disables full plane characteristics, but wetted surface is
reduced.


While wing keels have been given some credit for lifting foil
characteristics, it's a minimal effect on most boats and the flattened
forward underbody is actually behind the vessels ability to keep the
foward section aloft.




RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

And before Sloco makes an ass of himself again, consider...

....That virtually all sailing vessels moving through the water exhibit
some level of bow lift. Attempting to draw the lines between planing
and semi-planing with strict numbers is rather silly, just like the
rather ill defined areas between displacement and semi-displacement.
One could even argue that most sailboats are "semi-planing" but
obviously some designs are noted for it as a typical sailing
characteristic. My Pearson 30 and C&C 32 really ran on thier lines and
LWL most of the time, while the 35s5 lifts and exceeds hull speed with
a wooosh that is as fun as it is common in a good breeze.



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
This is such a ludicrous fabrication its laughable. If there was
enough
wind for a 35s5 to do hull speed under main alone (that's only 232 sq
ft)


How many sq. feet, Jeff???? You might want to check that again. You're
a BIT off!

Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here. With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage (17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

So lets do some real math he 322 sq ft in F5 generates about 12.9 Hp
(at 0.04 Hp/ft^2). Now, how much does a 11460 lb boat need to do hull
speed? About 22.7, using the formula:
HP = ((SR/10.665)^3) * DISP
In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6 knots.

Lets repeat for a NS36: 742 ft means 29.7 Hp. To reach hull speed
requires 33.7, so in fact it would have a SR of 1.2, or just under 7 knots.

So it would appear that booby simply doesn't know what it means to do
"hull speed," or, he made the whole story up. Or more likely, both.

BTW, a J/29 in 20 knots with full sail generates over 18 Hp but needs
only 11.9 for a Speed Ratio of 1.34. By my formula it gets to SR of
about 1.55 or close to 8 knots, which, I would think, agrees with the
polar at a beam reach. (Actually, the polar I have for a J/30 shows
over 8, but that's with a large jib.)


then a Nonsuch 36 with 742 sq ft and a hull speed a half knot
higher
would have had no trouble walking away from it.


Jeff, seriously, you CAN'T be any kind of real sailor. LWL is not the
end all for speed.

Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you claimed it was.

MAYBE you know that. Maybe not. My friend's J29 has
less LWL than the 35s5. He'll exceed his hull speed faster than we
will.

But by how much? Upwind or on a close reach its unusual for a speed
factor of greater than 1.4 or 1.5, where the "standard" is 1.34. On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.

A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30) is that it it will achieve these speeds in
lighter winds.

A boat like the 35s5 will do better than hull speed, even with
her main on a day like that.

So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a PHRF of
141. There's only about 15 points difference. PHRF is normalized for
11 knots of wind; how much of that difference goes away in stronger
wind? How much is the pointing ability?

Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low rating
because it attracts better skippers; it would follow that the Nonsuch
has a high rating because its only sailed, as you claim, by "old men."
Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Our average over an hour was 6.7 knots.

Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36. Again, you're
claiming that you can beat a full sailed NS36 with only your main.
Nonsense!

The Nonsuch was right there with us for about 3 minutes.

And then he went home? This is one of your little "code phrases" that
really means it was out-sailing you so you tacked away! You love to use
phrases like "boat for boat" and "well sailed" so you can make up any
fantasy you want to make the sale. Face it booby, you're a salesman,
not a sailor!

....
I would certainly admit the the 35s5 is a faster boat than the
NS36


Golly! Really? I thought you said the Nonsuch will walk away from a
35s5.

If you leave the jib at home. Actually, on a close reach with full
sail, the boats might be pretty close in a breeze.



Given that
the Nonsuch is a very comfortable cruising boat that is extremely
easy
to singlehand, that's not much of a difference.


Sure it is because the 35s5 is more fun to sail. And I've sailed a
Nonsuch and a Freedom 36 as well. Mark in this very group owned the
Freedom and it's a great boat, but not the kind of sailing we prefer.

Whatever floats your Clorox Bottle.



And on a close reach
with a breeze, the Nonsuch design holds its own against a lot of
other
boats. I never had any trouble keeping up or even passing most 32-34
footers in my Nonsuch 30 on a close reach.


I'm sure we're all happy that the Nonsuch worked well for you on that
point of sail. We kind of like the 35s5, and the J boats we sail. They
tend to be fun and fast on all points of sail.

So now he's admitting he lied about his "encounter" with a Nonsuch and
reverts to his claim that he has more fun.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Capt. **** Head" wrote in

while the 35s5 lifts and exceeds hull speed with
a wooosh that is as fun as it is common in a good breeze.


is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

SBV

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:56:45 -0400, "Scotty" wrote this
crap:

is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

For you, that "whoosh" is the sound the air makes between your ears.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 16:56:45 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote this
crap:

is that the same sounding 'whoosh' that you hear when
talking to sailors?

For you, that "whoosh" is the sound I make between your
legs.


must you gay up every post?

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the
Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here.


Wrong, Jeff. I work closely with two lofts now and sail area does not
+ HP in all cases. For it to be effective you need proper shape, COE
coupled with LWL and the least wetted surface on a hydrodynamically
effective hull.


With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage
(17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

No, Jeff. The Nonsuch can have all of the sail area in the world and
it will never overcome it's heft in all conditions. There are MANY
other factors than make a lot of boats faster than a Nonsuch even when
they have less canvas and shorter LWL.

In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6
knots.

Yeah, I remember years ago when I was a newbie and I played with those
types of numbers. Some real sailors set me straight. We will always
pass the Nonsuch and always have. A J27 or J29 will usually pass us,
though we can throw up impressive sail area coupled with greater LWL.
Sigh. You just don't get sailing at all, do you?


Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you
claimed it was.



Yup, I used to play the numbers game as you have above. Then there's
the real world. If you don't think a 35s5 can stay with a Nonsuch,
both flying mains, then you're simply wrong. There's just no doubt
about it at all.



But by how much?

Does that matter? "Faster" for sailboats is always about very small
advantages.


On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.


Most 35s5 owners who've sailed their boats hard have reported speeds
between 10-12 knots. On a reach in Florida we touched 11 knots I
believe. My buddy who races topped 11 with the 35s5 flying the 150% in
far too much wind.

A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30)

Actually, Jeff, the hulls have some differences beyond the weight.


So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a
PHRF of
141.



NE Rating is 165, Jeff. I've seen lower and higher. The current rating
for my boat with martec prop is 126. 165 is barely any better than my
Pearson 30, which was a fine sailing boat. I'm NOT bashing the Nonsuch
boats, Jeff. There were three out today and they are pretty boats.
They were right there with the Catalinas and Beneteau Oceanus boats,
but we passed them easily.

Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating
because it attracts better skippers;



The usual song from 35s5 owners is that it's just not forgiving at all
and requires a very good crew. In my opinion that makes a poor
raceboat for a lot of people, unless they really want to get serious
about it. It's a bad pick for the casual racer to be sure.



Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the
Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Hey, Jeff...if you want to believe that a Nonsuch 36 is faster than a
35s5, J30, Santana 30/30 or even Sloco's Express 30, screanm it to the
heavens.



Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36.

That was an average, Jeff. When winds died so did the Nonsuch. We kept
flying. In heavy winds the boats were a closer match. We sailed along
with two Nonsuch 36's. They are always out as of late and I'll take
pics of them next weekend. We always pass them.


Face it booby, you're a salesman,
not a sailor!

Well said! What's your point?

If you leave the jib at home. Actually, on a close reach with
full
sail, the boats might be pretty close in a breeze.

I like the Nonsuch, Jeff. It's too much of an "old person's" design
for me to dig into in my 40's.



So now he's admitting he lied about his "encounter" with a Nonsuch
and
reverts to his claim that he has more fun.

Like I said, I'll grab some pics of those boats for you this week.
They're always out on the weekends lately. And you'll see the white
haired crew on both. We did see a smaller one with some younger folk
aboard! And yes, the 35s5 is a lot more fun.


RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry, 322 sq feet. Still, its only 43% of the 742 feet on the
Nonsuch.
Sail Area = Horsepower; there's pretty simple physics here.


Wrong, Jeff. I work closely with two lofts now and sail area does not
+ HP in all cases. For it to be effective you need proper shape, COE
coupled with LWL and the least wetted surface on a hydrodynamically
effective hull.

Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!



With 230%
more power, the Nonsuch easily overcomes its weight disadvantage
(17,000
vs 11,460 lbs).

No, Jeff. The Nonsuch can have all of the sail area in the world and
it will never overcome it's heft in all conditions. There are MANY
other factors than make a lot of boats faster than a Nonsuch even when
they have less canvas and shorter LWL.

More Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


In fact, the Benny can only do a bit over SR of 1.1, or about 6
knots.

Yeah, I remember years ago when I was a newbie and I played with those
types of numbers.

So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning. This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?

Some real sailors set me straight. We will always
pass the Nonsuch and always have.

A Nonsuch 30, perhaps, but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;
in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.

A J27 or J29 will usually pass us,
though we can throw up impressive sail area coupled with greater LWL.
Sigh. You just don't get sailing at all, do you?

Keep at it another 10 or 20 years, and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.



Of course not. However, I can probably find posts where you
claimed it was.



Yup, I used to play the numbers game as you have above. Then there's
the real world. If you don't think a 35s5 can stay with a Nonsuch,
both flying mains, then you're simply wrong. There's just no doubt
about it at all.

You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160??? And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





But by how much?

Does that matter? "Faster" for sailboats is always about very small
advantages.

But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.



On a
Beam Reach in a blow, its possible to do 20% over hull speed.


Most 35s5 owners who've sailed their boats hard have reported speeds
between 10-12 knots. On a reach in Florida we touched 11 knots I
believe. My buddy who races topped 11 with the 35s5 flying the 150% in
far too much wind.

More of your silly claims. But I agree that there are moments- I've
even had my Nonsuch 30 close to 9 knots a few times. But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach in
18-20 knots steady.


A real advantage of a lightweight boat like the J/29 (same hull, 2000
lbs lighter than a J/30)

Actually, Jeff, the hulls have some differences beyond the weight.


Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


So will a Nonsuch. It isn't a crab crusher: the NS36 SD has a
PHRF of 141.



NE Rating is 165, Jeff. I've seen lower and higher. The current rating
for my boat with martec prop is 126. 165 is barely any better than my
Pearson 30, which was a fine sailing boat. I'm NOT bashing the Nonsuch
boats, Jeff. There were three out today and they are pretty boats.
They were right there with the Catalinas and Beneteau Oceanus boats,
but we passed them easily.

USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141. But are you actually claiming the
35s5 would rate faster without its jib?


Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating
because it attracts better skippers;



The usual song from 35s5 owners is that it's just not forgiving at all
and requires a very good crew. In my opinion that makes a poor
raceboat for a lot of people, unless they really want to get serious
about it. It's a bad pick for the casual racer to be sure.

So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros, or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


Since the ratings are in fact pretty close, it must be that the
Nonsuch
is actually faster than your Benny.

Hey, Jeff...if you want to believe that a Nonsuch 36 is faster than a
35s5, J30, Santana 30/30 or even Sloco's Express 30, screanm it to the
heavens.

I never claimed the Nonsuch was faster than any of these boats.
You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.

Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.




Which is a full knot under the hull speed of a NS36.

That was an average, Jeff. When winds died so did the Nonsuch. We kept
flying. In heavy winds the boats were a closer match. We sailed along
with two Nonsuch 36's. They are always out as of late and I'll take
pics of them next weekend. We always pass them.

Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


Wetted surface and hull shape is babble? Oh. Okay!


So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning.
This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?


Nope, I learned that the numbers is a starting point, but hardly the
final determination of a boats real world performance. In fact many of
the folks here taught me that when I whipped out a bunch of silly
numbers against Neal's Coronado 27.


but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;

It's almost as fast like my boat is almost as fast as a J29...except
it isn't.


in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.



Uh huh. And if I just leave the anchor down you'd certainly pass
me...eventually!


and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.


Aboard a Nonsuch? No thanks!


You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming
that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160???



You clearly don't understand the fractional rig at all. Most of the
35s5's drive comes from the mainsail. She does everything well under
her main alone, even besting hull speed with good wind. She's
thousands of lbs less than a Nonsuch, has less drag and so on. It's
not a debate, except for you, Jeff. We've done it.



And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Credibility with....a guy who sails a Siedelmann, a fellow with a
Trawler, and old fart who's never owned a performance disp.
monohull...and who else? Sockpuppets? I'm one of the few people who's
actually sailing out of this group! Don't make me laugh! Who else is
on that team of yours? Sloco with his Depressed 30 PHRF
Slothosaurus??? Bwahahahahaha!



But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat
that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing
that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.



You can crunch those numbers until you turn blue. Nothing beats the
actual sailing itself. The blue hulled NS36 fell behind us on two
tacks on a close reach. Later, on more of a beam reach it was very
close, but we still pulled away when the heavy puffs came along and
the 35s5 just surges forward. The NS36 did not respond that way. This
was not the 1st time we sailed next to an NS. We sail over to them
often because they're pretty to look at.


But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach
in
18-20 knots steady.


No, Jeff. They don't happen on a Nonsuch. But on a 35s5 they happen
more often. And on a J Boat they happen even more often. That's why
the Nonsuch won't rate 126 like a 35s5 and rates 165 here.



Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


Essentially...yes. Drives me nuts when folks say they're identical.


USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141.


Get over yourself. That would mean the NS36 could take on a J30!!!!
BWAHAHAHHA! The most common rating for the NS36 in the US is 156,
which is much like my C&C 32. The 35s5 sails circles around on the C&C
32 just like it does to the NS36. Ask Sloco if his Express 30, which
rates close to 141, would be beaten by a NS36! Boat for boat he'd
trounce the Nonsuch.


So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros,
or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


She's now too old to be raced by many pros. The 36.7 is the pick of
the moment and even that's getting old. The 35s5 is tricky to sail at
it's best and hard for the average racer to deal with. I was well
warned by other racers before I bought her, but then we didn't plan to
race, so moot issue. 35s5's that win often are campaigned by pretty
high end crews. Windriven is such a boat and the owner admits the 35s5
does not hit it's rating without great tuning and a very well adapted
crew. It's just not a great boat to race unless you plan to really get
into it. As a fun and fast daysailer and cruiser she's perfect.




You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.



We passed the NS36 with just our mainsail on Saturday in fairly strong
winds, yes.


Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.


It's real simple. On a reach, in gusts over 20 knots, we surged right
by the Nonsuch. Was she dragging something? Your ego perhaps? I dunno,
but we passed her...as we usually do.



Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Not avoiding it, Jeff. No one was more surprised than me by the 35s5's
speed under the main in strong gusts. Everyone aboard was impressed.
We'd surge well above 7 knots, fall back to 6 and change. It's those
surges that put us out in front.
I don't know what else to tell you, except to post a photo sequence,
You'll claim it's fake I suppose. Oh well. Sailing tomorrow, Jeff.



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Its not really worth spending any time on this. In true booby form, he
first told the story with winds "just short of whitecaps" but then after
I showed that it would take winds over 20 knots he changes the story
to "gusts over 20." In other words, he agreed completely with me and
simply changed his story to make sense.

As for the rating of the NS 36 SD, USSailing lists it as 141, with the
normal keel at 156. But that's not particularly relevant unless booby
is claiming that without a jib his boat would rate at 141.



Capt. Rob wrote:
Nauti-babble! You're just showing how little you know!


Wetted surface and hull shape is babble? Oh. Okay!


So you didn't understand the numbers and you gave up learning.
This is
a common pattern for you, isn't it?


Nope, I learned that the numbers is a starting point, but hardly the
final determination of a boats real world performance. In fact many of
the folks here taught me that when I whipped out a bunch of silly
numbers against Neal's Coronado 27.


but the NS 36 SD is almost as fast as your boat;

It's almost as fast like my boat is almost as fast as a J29...except
it isn't.


in some situations its faster, like if you leave your jib at home.


Uh huh. And if I just leave the anchor down you'd certainly pass
me...eventually!


and you'll catch up to where I was
about 40 years ago.


Aboard a Nonsuch? No thanks!


You've totally lost it here, booby! Are you seriously claiming
that the
35s5 without a jib can beat a boat that rates at 141 or even 160???



You clearly don't understand the fractional rig at all. Most of the
35s5's drive comes from the mainsail. She does everything well under
her main alone, even besting hull speed with good wind. She's
thousands of lbs less than a Nonsuch, has less drag and so on. It's
not a debate, except for you, Jeff. We've done it.



And
you think you have any credibility left? BWHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Credibility with....a guy who sails a Siedelmann, a fellow with a
Trawler, and old fart who's never owned a performance disp.
monohull...and who else? Sockpuppets? I'm one of the few people who's
actually sailing out of this group! Don't make me laugh! Who else is
on that team of yours? Sloco with his Depressed 30 PHRF
Slothosaurus??? Bwahahahahaha!



But this just proves my point. If you're claiming that a boat
that's a
couple of percent faster is all the difference in the world, then the
crude VPP numbers I gave are actually pretty definitive in showing
that
there's no way that a Benny without a jib can overcome that handicap.


You can crunch those numbers until you turn blue. Nothing beats the
actual sailing itself. The blue hulled NS36 fell behind us on two
tacks on a close reach. Later, on more of a beam reach it was very
close, but we still pulled away when the heavy puffs came along and
the 35s5 just surges forward. The NS36 did not respond that way. This
was not the 1st time we sailed next to an NS. We sail over to them
often because they're pretty to look at.


But these moments
usually last a few seconds are caused by surfing and momentary gusts.
They don't happen often (except in your fantasies) on a close reach
in
18-20 knots steady.


No, Jeff. They don't happen on a Nonsuch. But on a 35s5 they happen
more often. And on a J Boat they happen even more often. That's why
the Nonsuch won't rate 126 like a 35s5 and rates 165 here.



Of course, but its essentially the same hull shape.


Essentially...yes. Drives me nuts when folks say they're identical.


USSailing lists the NS 36 SD as 141.


Get over yourself. That would mean the NS36 could take on a J30!!!!
BWAHAHAHHA! The most common rating for the NS36 in the US is 156,
which is much like my C&C 32. The 35s5 sails circles around on the C&C
32 just like it does to the NS36. Ask Sloco if his Express 30, which
rates close to 141, would be beaten by a NS36! Boat for boat he'd
trounce the Nonsuch.


So what is it? Does it have a low rating because its raced by pros,
or a
high rating because its too hard for the average racer? You seem to
flip you argument back and forth.


She's now too old to be raced by many pros. The 36.7 is the pick of
the moment and even that's getting old. The 35s5 is tricky to sail at
it's best and hard for the average racer to deal with. I was well
warned by other racers before I bought her, but then we didn't plan to
race, so moot issue. 35s5's that win often are campaigned by pretty
high end crews. Windriven is such a boat and the owner admits the 35s5
does not hit it's rating without great tuning and a very well adapted
crew. It's just not a great boat to race unless you plan to really get
into it. As a fun and fast daysailer and cruiser she's perfect.




You made that claim that without your jib you can outsail a NS 36.


We passed the NS36 with just our mainsail on Saturday in fairly strong
winds, yes.


Its real simple: in F5 the Nonsuch (and most other boats) will be at or
near hull speed when carrying full sail. Take away the jib and the
benny doesn't have a prayer.


It's real simple. On a reach, in gusts over 20 knots, we surged right
by the Nonsuch. Was she dragging something? Your ego perhaps? I dunno,
but we passed her...as we usually do.



Without your jib? That's the whole topic of this discussion, even
though you keep avoiding it.

Not avoiding it, Jeff. No one was more surprised than me by the 35s5's
speed under the main in strong gusts. Everyone aboard was impressed.
We'd surge well above 7 knots, fall back to 6 and change. It's those
surges that put us out in front.
I don't know what else to tell you, except to post a photo sequence,
You'll claim it's fake I suppose. Oh well. Sailing tomorrow, Jeff.



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Its not really worth spending any time on this. In true booby form,
he
first told the story with winds "just short of whitecaps" but then
after
I showed that it would take winds over 20 knots he changes the
story
to "gusts over 20."


Uh, Jeff, do you KNOW when white caps form. Check the BEAUFORT WIND
SCALE, which says crested WAVELETS at 17-21 knots. Full whitecaps
around 22-27 knots and this is ESTIMATED. Yesterday we had some winds
above 20 knots and NO whitecaps formed. You're just a numbers guy,
Jeff. The trouble is, everything with sailing and the water is very
variable.

In other words, he agreed completely with me and
simply changed his story to make sense.


We passed the NS36 with main alone. TWICE. Wind conditions we 15-20
knots with some strong gusts above that. Steady winds 22-27 knots
usually bring whitecaps on protected waters, Jeff.


As for the rating of the NS 36 SD, USSailing lists it as 141


Yep, so Jeff claims the NS36 is right there with a J30, Express 30 and
so on! BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! 141 with the NS 36's slow drive out of the
pocket due to it's weight is just hilarious! There is no way Jeff has
sailed fast monohull boats, NO WAY AT ALL.

Around here, the NS 36 rates 165. And that's that. The way we sail by
all Nonsuch vessels reflects that rating. Nothing beats real world
experience, Jeff. I'm out there sailing while you pull out books and
parrot numbers.


RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

while the 35s5 lifts and exceeds hull speed with a wooosh that is
as fun as it is common in a good breeze.

LOL............... I haven't seen any 35s5s "woooshing" past the
competition in any regattas.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Moreover, you've claimed many times that your Benny has a low
rating because it attracts better skippers

ROFLOL.............. Yea, that's quite a fabrication since there are
not that many of those things racing. Oh, and the ones that are
suck. Some boats that have been effected by skipper performance over
the years are the J24, MUMM30, etc. Classes with lots of boats that
participate on the world stage. Maybe in the Matrix the 35s5 is a
large class.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

You clearly don't understand the fractional rig at all. Most of
the
35s5's drive comes from the mainsail. She does everything well under
her main alone, even besting hull speed with good wind..

Can the rest of you see that the Boob has read too many J-Boat
brochures? Boobie even though your designer boat has a fractional rig
it doesn't have a huge main that would power that tub around like it's
a race boat w/ a fractional rig. Give it up. Beneteaus are designed
for the average bloke who is also considering a Catalina or a Hunter.

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Capt. **** head" wrote in message
ups.com...
Nauti-babble!


Credibility with....a guy who sails a Siedelmann,




Nope, you have no credability with me. never have, never
will, none, nada, zip, ziltch, zeroe.


The NS36 did not respond that way.


prolly because he wan't racing you.







I'm too old to race

and too stupid.

The 35s5 is tricky to sail at
it's best and hard for the average racer to deal with.
It's just not a great


well, it just a stepping stone anyways.




We passed the NS36 with just our mainsail on Saturday in
fairly strong
winds, yes, he was anchored at the time, so what.


Oh

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Capt. **** Head" wrote ...




We passed the NS36 with main alone. TWICE. once on
the way out past his slip, and again while returning past
his slip.

Boob****, the anti-sailor

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Its not really worth spending any time on this. In true booby form,
he
first told the story with winds "just short of whitecaps" but then
after
I showed that it would take winds over 20 knots he changes the
story
to "gusts over 20."


Uh, Jeff, do you KNOW when white caps form. Check the BEAUFORT WIND
SCALE, which says crested WAVELETS at 17-21 knots. Full whitecaps
around 22-27 knots and this is ESTIMATED.

I don't know where you learned Beaufort from; here's Bowditch's version:

Force 3: Wind Speed 7-10 knots.
Sea: Wave height 0.6-1m (2-3 ft); Large wavelets, crests begin to break,
scattered whitecaps.

Force 4: Wind Speed 11-16 knots.
Sea: Wave height 1-1.5 m (3.5-5 ft); Small waves becoming longer,
numerous whitecaps.

Force 5: Wind Speed 17-21 knots.
Sea: Wave height 2-2.5 m (6-8 ft); Moderate waves, taking longer form,
many whitecaps, some spray.

Force 6: Wind Speed 22-27 knots.
Sea: Wave height 3-4 m (9.5-13 ft); Larger waves forming, whitecaps
everywhere, more spray.

Clearly these are for open ocean, but even in the protected waters where
I sailed everyday for 15 years, essentially a pond a mile across,
whitecaps meant 18 knots or more, and no whitecaps meant 15 or under.

And of course, the local marine weather recording station, 2 miles from
your slip, recorded only one 6 minute period on that day where there
were gusts over 20 knots and there was a steady 15. The rest of the day
was much lighter.


In other words, he agreed completely with me and
simply changed his story to make sense.


We passed the NS36 with main alone. TWICE.

So that means the NS had to pass you?

Wind conditions we 15-20
knots with some strong gusts above that.

Odd, that's not what the local weather said. What time was that again?

Steady winds 22-27 knots
usually bring whitecaps on protected waters, Jeff.

Odd, we get whitecaps in much lower winds here on the Charles, and
that's only a mile across. Is the water thicker where you are? Do you
sail in Willie Wonka's factory?



As for the rating of the NS 36 SD, USSailing lists it as 141


Yep, so Jeff claims the NS36 is right there with a J30,

First of all the NS 36 SD and NS 36 are somewhat different. And I stand
by my claim, USSailing lists the SD at 141:

http://www.ussailing.org/phrf/Tool_%...G%20Report.pdf

But again this is besides that point. Assuming the "blue Nonsuch" was
not a SD version, Booby is claiming his boat would rate 156 without a jib.

Around here, the NS 36 rates 165.

Wrong. Here's the latest Base Rating for your area:

http://yralis.org/070831-base-rating.pdf

The Nonsuch 36 has a base of 156, but picks up some points for cruising
gear. The 35s5 rates 129, and the 35s5 W is 132. Oddly, the only 35s5
racing has an adjusted rating is 138 (mainly weight adjustment), so a
wing keel version with the same adjustment would race at 141, or only 15
points lower than a stock Nonsuch would. In other words, the Long
Island Sound ratings completely support my claim that the 35s5W is not
so much faster than a NS 36 that it could pass it without a jib in winds
under 20 knots.

In addition, they also list a Nonsuch 33 that races in non-spinnaker
with a rating of 147, only 9 points higher than the 35s5 in non-spinnaker.

Actually, if the benny raced with a 135 jib (instead of a nominal
145-155), it could raise its rating 6 more points. Although they don't
show further adjustments, one would have to guess a 100% jib would be
worth at least another 6-9 points, bringing it right up there with the
Nonsuch 36, and maybe even slower than the Nonsuch 33! And lets not
forget that a A/C would raise the rating 3 points!

Sorry to bust your little bubble, booby. I'm sure that you pass lots of
Nonsuch's that aren't paying any attention to you. When I had a Nonsuch
I passed lots of Beneteau's that didn't know they were in a race, either!

And that's that. The way we sail by
all anchored Nonsuch vessels reflects that rating. Nothing beats Matrix
experience, Jeff. I'm in the Matrix while you've been sailing
all summer.

Lord, Sloco is dumb!
 

Can the rest of you see that the Boob has read too many J-Boat
brochures? Boobie even though your designer boat has a fractional
rig
it doesn't have a huge main that




It doesn't have a large main???

J34 C 256 feet

J35 327 feet

J105 340 feet

Beneteau 35s5 sq. feet...a whopping 371

Sloco sure knows his boats!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA...TOTAL SMACKDOWN!!!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Beneteaus are designed
for the average bloke who is also considering a Catalina or a Hunter.




Yeah, only mine is faster than yours! So is the even older 345!!!!

BWAHAHAAAHA!


RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Sorry to bust your little bubble, booby. I'm sure that you pass lots
of
Nonsuch's that aren't paying any attention to you.



I guess ALL of the boats we pass aren't paying attention. No one can
sail them well it would appear.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we pass the Nonsuch boats all the
time, so they must ALL be badly sailed according to you.

The best part of this, not lost on a few folks for certain, is that
hilarious fact that I've had Jeff defending to the poor turtlesque
Nonsuch against my 35s5 sailing WITHOUT THE JIB!!!!!!


BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA! AMAZING BUT TRUE!


RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sorry to bust your little bubble, booby. I'm sure that
you pass lots
of
Nonsuch's that aren't paying any attention to you.



I guess ALL of the boats we pass aren't paying attention.
No one can
sail them well it would appear.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we pass the Nonsuch boats
all the
time,

Sigh.
I pass Porsches and BMWs all the time in my truck.
I guess I have a really fast AND FUN truck, eh?

SBV

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

I pass Porsches and BMWs all the time in my truck.
I guess I have a really fast AND FUN truck, eh?



That's right little Scotty Potty! Cars and sailboats are exactly the
same! Good point. I knew we keep you around here for a reason!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry to bust your little bubble, booby. I'm sure that you pass lots
of
Nonsuch's that aren't paying any attention to you.



I guess ALL of the boats we pass aren't paying attention. No one can
sail them well it would appear.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we pass the Nonsuch boats all the
time, so they must ALL be badly sailed according to you.

The best part of this, not lost on a few folks for certain, is that
hilarious fact that I've had Jeff defending to the poor turtlesque
Nonsuch against my 35s5 sailing WITHOUT THE JIB!!!!!!

Defending rather well, given that I showed that a Nonsuch 33 races in
your waters with a rating only a few points higher than the only 35s5
that races in LIS. Most people here now appreciate that a Nonsuch could
probably beat your boat pretty easily, especially if you're at the helm.

Here's the current list of LIS PHRF racers:
http://yralis.org/070831-valid-certs.pdf

Search on "Breathless" to find the only 35s5, a fin keel boat (wing
would be +3) that races at 138. Search on "Skylark" for the NS 33 that
races at 147.

That makes all of your ranting sound like the bull**** it is!

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Sigh. The sad part is, he's not just ignoring my point, he
doesn't see it.

SBV


"Capt. **** Head" wrote in message
ups.com...
I pass Porsches and BMWs all the time in my truck.
I guess I have a really fast AND FUN truck, eh?



That's right little Scotty Potty! Cars and sailboats are
exactly the
same! Good point. I knew we keep you around here for a
reason!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

SMACKDOWN !!!!!


"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry to bust your little bubble, booby. I'm sure that
you pass lots
of
Nonsuch's that aren't paying any attention to you.



I guess ALL of the boats we pass aren't paying
attention. No one can
sail them well it would appear.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but we pass the Nonsuch
boats all the
time, so they must ALL be badly sailed according to you.

The best part of this, not lost on a few folks for
certain, is that
hilarious fact that I've had Jeff defending to the poor
turtlesque
Nonsuch against my 35s5 sailing WITHOUT THE JIB!!!!!!

Defending rather well, given that I showed that a Nonsuch
33 races in
your waters with a rating only a few points higher than
the only 35s5
that races in LIS. Most people here now appreciate that a
Nonsuch could
probably beat your boat pretty easily, especially if
you're at the helm.

Here's the current list of LIS PHRF racers:
http://yralis.org/070831-valid-certs.pdf

Search on "Breathless" to find the only 35s5, a fin keel
boat (wing
would be +3) that races at 138. Search on "Skylark" for
the NS 33 that
races at 147.

That makes all of your ranting sound like the bull**** it
is!

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Here's the current list of LIS PHRF racers:
http://yralis.org/070831-valid-certs.pdf


And here's the list that reflects average ratings across the country:

http://www.pipeline.com/~wayneb/phrflis.htm#j

The typical rating given to the 35s5 is 129 for WK/SR. Last year it
was lowered to 126, but I don't know why. Google 35s5 WK PHRF and the
most common number is 129. Now do Nonsuch 36 PHRF and almost
everything is 156. Get over it, Jeff. It's not a racer and needs MUCHO
air to get off it's ass.

No NS 36 has been even close to the speed of the 35s5, Jeff. Sorry.
Like I said, I guess all of the Nonsuch vessels we see are badly
sailed, since they are always pretty slow unless it's blowing hard!
You are really crazy. My 35s5 carries 371 sq. feet of main and 302 sq
feet of headsail and weighs 3 TONS less than the tubby nonsuch. In the
real world, Jeff...which you should visit, the boats are not close at
all. The 35s5 trounces boats like the Nonsuch and has fun doing it!

But I've enjoyed the "idea" that a Nonsuch is faster or as fast as a
J30, which is a bit slower than my boat! I oughta know since a J30
owner sails on my boat often and along with it. He must not know how
to sail either. That's your only answer, Jeff....no one can sail!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Here's the current list of LIS PHRF racers:
http://yralis.org/070831-valid-certs.pdf


And here's the list that reflects average ratings across the country:

Sorry Booby, just yesterday you were ranting about the ratings "in your
area" and that ratings for others didn't count. So I found the relevant
ratings and the most recent certificates from your local authority. The
bottom line: the only 35s5 that races in your area rates 138 with the
fin keel. A Nonsuch 33 races in the same division at 147 (I'm guessing
his rating is because he flies a chute). If you add 3 points for your
wing keel, 3 points for your A/C, and six points for your small jib, you
rate 3 seconds slower than the Nonsuch!


RB
35s5 - almost as fast as a Nonsuch
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

A Nonsuch 33 races in the same division at 147 (I'm guessing
his rating is because he flies a chute). If you add 3 points for
your
wing keel, 3 points for your A/C, and six points for your small jib,
you
rate 3 seconds slower than the Nonsuch!


There are many 35s5's racing around the country, Jeff. Google them.
We have no way of knowing why the 35s5 rates 138, which is way above
average. On the other hand a rating of 147 is still going to get
clobbered by our boat.
No amount of sail is going to make up a 3 ton liability between two
boats of this type, 3 tons and the Nonsuch carries only a bit more
sail area, has more wetted surface and isn't shaped for speed at all.
Get over it. Jeff. I'm off for some sailing on a J24 now...another
boat that passes Nonsuch 36's in a lot of situations. Enjoy a great
weather day!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Sorry Booby, just yesterday you were ranting about the ratings "in
your
area" and that ratings for others didn't count.



In MOST areas, the 35s5 WK rates 129. In MOST areas the Nonsuch rates
156.
Now you found the exceptions and want to make it the rule. Doesn't
work that way, Jeff. And as I said, YRA of the LIS rates my boat at
126, a tough rating to sail to unless my boat was in perfect tune and
crewed by very seasoned people. If I wanted to race in something as
childish as PHRF, I'd rather race aboard a Catalina 30 or Pearson 33,
boats that can be sailed to their ratings by an average group.
My trolls, my rules!


Nonsuch: When getting there first is second, better late than never
aboard a Nonsuch 36!

PDQ: When the beauty and romance of sailing has been replaced by
brittle bones and liver spots, it's time for the PDQ experience!


BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! My last post until tonight, Jeff....gotta run
for a sail with Thomas on a J. He's gonna love it!



RB
35s5
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Sorry Booby, just yesterday you were ranting about the ratings "in
your
area" and that ratings for others didn't count.

In MOST areas, the 35s5 WK rates 129. In MOST areas the Nonsuch rates
156.
Now you found the exceptions and want to make it the rule. Doesn't
work that way, Jeff.

Yes, it does work that way. I was willing to use the national ratings
and you kept insisting that in your area the NS rates higher. You made
the "rules" and now they bit you in the ass!

And as I said, YRA of the LIS rates my boat at
126, a tough rating to sail to unless my boat was in perfect tune and
crewed by very seasoned people.

I repeat, the only 35s5 with a LIS certificate races at 138. Just a few
seconds faster than a NS33!





RB
35s5 - Almost as fast as a Nonsuch!
NY

Fantastic Sailing again!
 

Jeff wrote: The 35s5 rates 129, and the 35s5 W is 132. Oddly, the
only 35s5 racing has an adjusted rating is 138 (mainly weight
adjustment), so a wing keel version with the same adjustment would
race at 141

Oh my god! The Boob is down for the count. His designer yacht rates
the same as my "lowly" "old" Express 30. But the funny thing is I've
never been past by the PHRF 'C' fleet that started 5 minutes behind
me. I guess the 35s5 needs another rating adjustment.

35s5: The boat with the Boob's configuration rates the same as an
Express 30. BAAWWWWAAAAAA