Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

Jeff wrote:
* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 12:00 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..

Does MIT offer a BS in "earth science"? No. It has the same
offerings as Colorado School of Mines. You are merely repeating what
I've already said.

Of course it does. Here's the link:

http://eapsweb.mit.edu/education/und...jor/index.html

You can concentrate in Geoscience, Environmental, Weather, or
Planetary. In addition, you can major in other areas and minor in
these fields.


Thanks Jeff. I looked but could not find the actual title of the
degree offered. Where does it say BSES as in "Bachelor of Science in
Earth Science"?

As you can see SUNY offers a BSES:

http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/es.asp


I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences


Becasue he has to feel important becasue he has a superior degree in
physics...

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

* Jeff wrote, On 5/23/2007 5:33 PM:

Thanks Jeff. I looked but could not find the actual title of the
degree offered. Where does it say BSES as in "Bachelor of Science in
Earth Science"?

As you can see SUNY offers a BSES:

http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/es.asp

I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences


I forgot to mention, the primary home of the department is the "Green
Building," donated by Cecil and Ida Green. Appropriately named.

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 11:42 AM:
If your feelings are hurt, I truly apologize. My point was simply to offer
up that "Earth Scientists" may have less science education than engineers,

"May have less"??? Thos are prtty harsh words!

computer engineers and other "non-science" majors.

As a quite successful computer engineer I can state that its
altogether possible to hold an advanced degree in CS and never have
taken a true science or engineering course. (Not in my case though,
since I really majored in engineering and then physics.)

I believe it is important
for others to know this because these very "Scientists" are
predicting/echoing global warming/cooling/warming/cooling/disaster/doom

This is where you're completely wrong. You're trying to make it sound
like the entire field of Earth Science has been made up of community
college dropouts. The reality is that there is a huge amount of
advanced science, most of it published in respectable, peer reviewed
journals.

In fact, a study was done to see how many scientific papers supported
the notion that man was a major cause of climate change, and how many
disagreed. Over 1000 papers were sampled, 75% agreed, 25% were
"agnostic" and had no opinion, but there was not a single paper that
disagreed. Although the study was criticized, even the critics
admitted that it was substantially correct.

Even the famous skeptics don't claim climate change isn't real, they
generally complain about the way it is described. For instance,
there's no way to prove that Katrina was caused Global Warming.



and
are affecting the very lives, livelihoods, educations, social structure
based solely upon their credential as "Scientist".

Yes, all those PhD's from major universities are worthless because
Crantz claims they're "soft on science."

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 12:00 PM:
"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Does MIT offer a BS in "earth science"? No. It has the same offerings
as Colorado School of Mines. You are merely repeating what I've already
said.
Of course it does. Here's the link:

http://eapsweb.mit.edu/education/und...jor/index.html

You can concentrate in Geoscience, Environmental, Weather, or Planetary.
In addition, you can major in other areas and minor in these fields.


Thanks Jeff. I looked but could not find the actual title of the degree
offered. Where does it say BSES as in "Bachelor of Science in Earth
Science"?

As you can see SUNY offers a BSES:

http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/es.asp

I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences


I was discussing Earth Science right from the get-go. Not geology,
meteorology, geophysics, environmental science, planetary science or any
other program except Earth Science. Go back and check.

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:
* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 12:00 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..

Does MIT offer a BS in "earth science"? No. It has the same offerings
as Colorado School of Mines. You are merely repeating what I've
already said.

Of course it does. Here's the link:

http://eapsweb.mit.edu/education/und...jor/index.html

You can concentrate in Geoscience, Environmental, Weather, or
Planetary. In addition, you can major in other areas and minor in these
fields.


Thanks Jeff. I looked but could not find the actual title of the degree
offered. Where does it say BSES as in "Bachelor of Science in Earth
Science"?

As you can see SUNY offers a BSES:

http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/es.asp


I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences


Becasue he has to feel important becasue he has a superior degree in
physics...

No, I was discussing Earth Science. I never said anyone who had a degree in
it was stupid, or even mentioned the quality of a person having a degree. I
never said the degree was inferior to any other degree. I never said the
topics of study were dull, uninteresting or irrelevant. I said it was light
on science, the science being physics, chemistry, biology and mathematics in
regards to Dave's original comments. I've explained myself and even
apologized for any unintended consequences. You so graciously keep up your
personal attacks. Where did I mention I have a degree in Physics? I didn't
and I don't. But keep going on if you must.

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 11:42 AM:
If your feelings are hurt, I truly apologize. My point was simply to
offer up that "Earth Scientists" may have less science education than
engineers,

"May have less"??? Thos are prtty harsh words!

Damning words no less!


computer engineers and other "non-science" majors.


As a quite successful computer engineer I can state that its
altogether possible to hold an advanced degree in CS and never have
taken a true science or engineering course. (Not in my case though, since
I really majored in engineering and then physics.)

Show me the cirricula and the school. Even if you weasel your way through
some Cobol/business school scheme there are still engineering/science
courses.


I believe it is important for others to know this because these very
"Scientists" are predicting/echoing global
warming/cooling/warming/cooling/disaster/doom

This is where you're completely wrong. You're trying to make it sound
like the entire field of Earth Science has been made up of community
college dropouts.

No I am referring to college graduates.

The reality is that there is a huge amount of
advanced science, most of it published in respectable, peer reviewed
journals.

Show me one person with a BS, MS or PhD in Earth Science that has published.
Not a degree under the category Earth Science but a degree in Earth Science.
Just one.



In fact, a study was done to see how many scientific papers supported the
notion that man was a major cause of climate change, and how many
disagreed. Over 1000 papers were sampled, 75% agreed, 25% were "agnostic"
and had no opinion, but there was not a single paper that disagreed.
Although the study was criticized, even the critics admitted that it was
substantially correct.

Opinion poll - now that's science! Now let's say 5 years from now the
"consensus" is the exact opposite. What does this say about all those who
claim man was the cause of GW? How about 30 years ago when we were entering
into an ice age? How much government funding is available to show that man
is not a cause of global warming? Increase funding for the contrary opinion
then you'll see change. Scientists don't like to starve.

Did you know man is a cause of tidal change? All the mass of those people
living on the coast with its ever increasing population will keep attracting
water further and further up on land! Not to mention the mass of buildings
and SUVs!


Even the famous skeptics don't claim climate change isn't real, they
generally complain about the way it is described. For instance, there's
no way to prove that Katrina was caused Global Warming.


But do they claim man caused it as you assert above? Is it climate change or
global warming? Why two concepts?




and are affecting the very lives, livelihoods, educations, social
structure based solely upon their credential as "Scientist".

Yes, all those PhD's from major universities are worthless because Crantz
claims they're "soft on science."

I was pointing out the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority". Your above
line is your conclusion, not mine.

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_science

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

Bob Crantz wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..

* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 12:00 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
om...

Does MIT offer a BS in "earth science"? No. It has the same offerings
as Colorado School of Mines. You are merely repeating what I've already
said.

Of course it does. Here's the link:

http://eapsweb.mit.edu/education/und...jor/index.html

You can concentrate in Geoscience, Environmental, Weather, or Planetary.
In addition, you can major in other areas and minor in these fields.


Thanks Jeff. I looked but could not find the actual title of the degree
offered. Where does it say BSES as in "Bachelor of Science in Earth
Science"?

As you can see SUNY offers a BSES:

http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/es.asp

I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences



I was discussing Earth Science right from the get-go. Not geology,
meteorology, geophysics, environmental science, planetary science or any
other program except Earth Science. Go back and check.


All those things are Earth Science, yutz....why don't you go have an
affair with a tesla coil and get it over with?

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

On Tue, 22 May 2007 22:38:17 -0400, katy
wrote this crap:


Good Lord...where did you reasurrect from?


I've always been here.





This post is 100% free of steroids

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 9:44 PM:
I don't know why the exact title is so important to you. However, the
the Department of Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences in the
School of Science offers this degree:
Bachelor of Science in Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Sciences


I was discussing Earth Science right from the get-go. Not geology,
meteorology, geophysics, environmental science, planetary science or any
other program except Earth Science. Go back and check.


I did check. You implied that "Earth Science" is the field that
claims Global Warming is real, but that is in fact supported by many
fields. Now you're claiming that what is called "Earth Science" at
MIT doesn't count because its not light enough.

Why don't you show us these "light" degrees, and demonstrate that its
people with these degrees that are behind the GW claims?

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

Horvath wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 22:38:17 -0400, katy
wrote this crap:


Good Lord...where did you reasurrect from?



I've always been here.





This post is 100% free of steroids

You get the longest lurk award....

Cause & Effect ~ The Wind
 

* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 10:13 PM:
"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
* Bob Crantz wrote, On 5/23/2007 11:42 AM:
If your feelings are hurt, I truly apologize. My point was simply to
offer up that "Earth Scientists" may have less science education than
engineers,
"May have less"??? Thos are prtty harsh words!

Damning words no less!

computer engineers and other "non-science" majors.

As a quite successful computer engineer I can state that its
altogether possible to hold an advanced degree in CS and never have
taken a true science or engineering course. (Not in my case though, since
I really majored in engineering and then physics.)

Show me the cirricula and the school. Even if you weasel your way through
some Cobol/business school scheme there are still engineering/science
courses.

Well, at MIT a CS degree requires freshman physics, but I would think
any "Earth Science" degree would include that. It also requires a bit
of math - Calculus, Diff Equations, Linear Algebra and Discrete Math.
But teaching high school math would also require this much. And of
course a lot of computer stuff. There really isn't anything I would
consider "hard science" or physical engineering. No Bio or Chem or
Mechanical, etc.

My wife got a Masters in CS taking all computer stuff with maybe one
math course.


I believe it is important for others to know this because these very
"Scientists" are predicting/echoing global
warming/cooling/warming/cooling/disaster/doom
This is where you're completely wrong. You're trying to make it sound
like the entire field of Earth Science has been made up of community
college dropouts.

No I am referring to college graduates.

OK, but you make it sound like they aren't "real" degrees.


The reality is that there is a huge amount of
advanced science, most of it published in respectable, peer reviewed
journals.

Show me one person with a BS, MS or PhD in Earth Science that has published.
Not a degree under the category Earth Science but a degree in Earth Science.
Just one.

What's your point? You're the one who claimed they were the ones
advocating Global Warming. Now you're claiming they're not.




In fact, a study was done to see how many scientific papers supported the
notion that man was a major cause of climate change, and how many
disagreed. Over 1000 papers were sampled, 75% agreed, 25% were "agnostic"
and had no opinion, but there was not a single paper that disagreed.
Although the study was criticized, even the critics admitted that it was
substantially correct.

Opinion poll - now that's science!

OK, 750 peer reviewed papers supporting the view the man is a
significant factor in Global Climate Change. Zero that disagree.
What's wrong with that?

Now let's say 5 years from now the
"consensus" is the exact opposite. What does this say about all those who
claim man was the cause of GW? How about 30 years ago when we were entering
into an ice age?

So you're now saying that the opinion of all of the "real" scientists
is meaningless, because they could be wrong? This is possibility in
all fields of science. It isn't a reason to claim everything is wrong.

How much government funding is available to show that man
is not a cause of global warming? Increase funding for the contrary opinion
then you'll see change. Scientists don't like to starve.

Grant money isn't given out to "prove" a theory. It's given to prove
or disprove it. All 750 papers had the possibility of showing that
they supported the "dissenting" view, but it never happened.

There is one group of people that were funded only to raise the
dissenting opinion - Exxon gave them lots of money, but they never
came up with anything that got published in a serious journal.
Recently Exxon gave up the practice.


Even the famous skeptics don't claim climate change isn't real, they
generally complain about the way it is described. For instance, there's
no way to prove that Katrina was caused Global Warming.

But do they claim man caused it as you assert above?

There is no way to prove that any individual event is caused by Global
Warming. It is, however, human nature to oversimplify in this way.
Scientists are looking at trends over many years; reporters are
looking at last weeks weather and trying to make a headline out of it.

Is it climate change or global warming? Why two concepts?

What two concepts? Are you claiming it doesn't exist because people
have used different words for it. That's as lame as claiming the
Theory of Evolution isn't real because its just a theory.





and are affecting the very lives, livelihoods, educations, social
structure based solely upon their credential as "Scientist".
Yes, all those PhD's from major universities are worthless because Crantz
claims they're "soft on science."

I was pointing out the logical fallacy of "appeal to authority". Your above
line is your conclusion, not mine.

"Appeal to Authority" is only a fallacy when it is used as an absolute
proof. The fallacy is that authority is sometimes wrong, not that it
is always wrong, or even mostly wrong.

The only point you seem to have made is that there *may* be some
degrees called "Earth Science" that have have less hard science or
engineering than others, but you can find this in any field. There
are certainly Math degrees that only qualify one for teaching high
school math.