OzOne wrote:
Before proper gun control is instituted.....or are you really that
afraid of everything?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

Has nothing to do with gun control unless he purchased the guns at a gun
show, which does need reform.......has everything to do with how kids
are raised...an interesting statistic was mentioned on CNN yesterday by
an FBI profiler...the majority of college shootings are done by young
Asian men...the assumption made is that they do not understand other
cutures, are pressed for achievement, and flip out...Jim Jones used
grape KoolAid to kill off his clan....there is always a way..this was a
well=planned event...it was not a crime of instant passion...at any
rate, here in the state of VA, we're all pulverized...half the students
at VA Tech are from the Hampton Roads area...everyone is in a state of
communal shock...

On Apr 17, 7:25 am, katy wrote:
OzOne wrote:
Before proper gun control is instituted.....or are you really that
afraid of everything?

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

Has nothing to do with gun control unless he purchased the guns at a gun
show, which does need reform.......has everything to do with how kids
are raised...an interesting statistic was mentioned on CNN yesterday by
an FBI profiler...the majority of college shootings are done by young
Asian men...the assumption made is that they do not understand other
cutures, are pressed for achievement, and flip out...Jim Jones used
grape KoolAid to kill off his clan....there is always a way..this was a
well=planned event...it was not a crime of instant passion...at any
rate, here in the state of VA, we're all pulverized...half the students
at VA Tech are from the Hampton Roads area...everyone is in a state of
communal shock...

Kids should be allowed to carry guns on campus.

One kid with a license to carry could have dropped that nut well
before he hit double digits.

How could 33 be killed unless they did what the gunman demanded and stood in
line? Had he tried to pull this off at a military base with unarmed recruits
he would have been torn limb from limb. Very few, if any would have been
killed. The difference? In the military it is taught that self defense is
proper and honorable plus the means of self defense is taught. Pacificism is
rife on college campuses. Same age people in both cases, different learning
environments. At the college most students have their parents footing the
bill. For the military recruits they are footing the bill with blood.

In article ,
katy wrote:
OzOne wrote:
Before proper gun control is instituted.....or are you really that
afraid of everything?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

Has nothing to do with gun control unless he purchased the guns at a gun
show, which does need reform.......has everything to do with how kids
are raised...an interesting statistic was mentioned on CNN yesterday by
an FBI profiler...the majority of college shootings are done by young
Asian men...the assumption made is that they do not understand other
cutures, are pressed for achievement, and flip out...Jim Jones used
grape KoolAid to kill off his clan....there is always a way..this was a
well=planned event...it was not a crime of instant passion...at any
rate, here in the state of VA, we're all pulverized...half the students
at VA Tech are from the Hampton Roads area...everyone is in a state of
communal shock...

And, they have easy access to guns, especially handguns. If you remove
that easy access, then they might have a chance to get help before 33
people die needlessly. Why don't you tell us it's "in the
Constitution" again if it makes you feel better.


--
Capt. JG @@
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In article .com,
Bart wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:25 am, katy wrote:
OzOne wrote:
Before proper gun control is instituted.....or are you really that
afraid of everything?

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

Has nothing to do with gun control unless he purchased the guns at a gun
show, which does need reform.......has everything to do with how kids
are raised...an interesting statistic was mentioned on CNN yesterday by
an FBI profiler...the majority of college shootings are done by young
Asian men...the assumption made is that they do not understand other
cutures, are pressed for achievement, and flip out...Jim Jones used
grape KoolAid to kill off his clan....there is always a way..this was a
well=planned event...it was not a crime of instant passion...at any
rate, here in the state of VA, we're all pulverized...half the students
at VA Tech are from the Hampton Roads area...everyone is in a state of
communal shock...

Kids should be allowed to carry guns on campus.

One kid with a license to carry could have dropped that nut well
before he hit double digits.

License? That's regulation Bart. The gun control lobby would never go
for it.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

In article , Bob Crantz wrote:
How could 33 be killed unless they did what the gunman demanded and stood in
line? Had he tried to pull this off at a military base with unarmed recruits
he would have been torn limb from limb. Very few, if any would have been
killed. The difference? In the military it is taught that self defense is
proper and honorable plus the means of self defense is taught. Pacificism is
rife on college campuses. Same age people in both cases, different learning
environments. At the college most students have their parents footing the
bill. For the military recruits they are footing the bill with blood.

That's right! Blame the victim. Shouldn't have been taking exams
anyway.




--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

OzOne wrote:

Before proper gun control is instituted.....or are you really that
afraid of everything?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

Has nothing to do with gun control unless he purchased the guns at a gun
show, which does need reform.......has everything to do with how kids
are raised...an interesting statistic was mentioned on CNN yesterday by
an FBI profiler...the majority of college shootings are done by young
Asian men...the assumption made is that they do not understand other
cutures, are pressed for achievement, and flip out...Jim Jones used
grape KoolAid to kill off his clan....there is always a way..this was a
well=planned event...it was not a crime of instant passion...at any
rate, here in the state of VA, we're all pulverized...half the students
at VA Tech are from the Hampton Roads area...everyone is in a state of
communal shock...


And, they have easy access to guns, especially handguns. If you remove
that easy access, then they might have a chance to get help before 33
people die needlessly. Why don't you tell us it's "in the
Constitution" again if it makes you feel better.


Why not start putting insane people back in the institutions where they
belong so they don't jeopardize the lives and welfare of others? Turns
out the guy was clincally diagnosed and was referred by the university
for counseling becasue his creative writing assignments were so
disturbing that the instructor was concerned. And it is the
Constitution, Jon...obviously the American people have not come to a
different conclusion about that or they'd make the quorum to change it...

On Apr 17, 11:30 am, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:

And, they have easy access to guns, especially handguns. If you remove
that easy access, then they might have a chance to get help before 33
people die needlessly. Why don't you tell us it's "in the
Constitution" again if it makes you feel better.

--
Capt. JG - Hide quoted text -

Wrong



1. Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were
ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws
cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.1
2. Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising
in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms
restrictions.
* Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002
that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a
crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed
robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While
murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."2
* Canada: After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995,
Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the
criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is
dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the
past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while
in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted." 3
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United
Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun
ban in 1997.4
* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising
in Japan, while arrests at record low."5
3. Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of
crime than are people in the United States:
* In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S.
Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found
that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
* "You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United
States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The
rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in
the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double
America's."6 The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher
than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference
between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the
past 16 years."7
* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported
that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16
other industrialized nations, including the United States.8
4. Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics.
Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult
since foreign officials frequently use different standards in
compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there
for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in
their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"9 "Police are accused
of fiddling crime data,"10 and "Police figures under-record offences
by 20 percent."11
* British police have also criticized the system because of the
"widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police
were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of
ruses to 'massage' statistics."12
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated
with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are
meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going
on."13
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded
level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being
committed."14
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told
The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a
complete sham.' A classic example, he said, was where a series of
homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one
crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a
crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen."15
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep
murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman
during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but
because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead),
charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the
event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it
counts as nothing at all. 'With such differences in reporting
criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide
rates is a sham,' [a 2000 report from the Inspectorate of
Constabulary] concludes."16
5. Fact: Many nations with stricter gun control laws have violence
rates that are equal to, or greater than, that of the United States.
Consider the following rates:


High Gun
Ownership Countries
Low Gun
Ownership Countries

Country
Suicide
Homicide
Total*
Country
Suicide
Homicide
Total*

Switzerland 21.4
2.7
24.1
Denmark 22.3
4.9
27.2

U.S. 11.6
7.4
19.0
France 20.8
1.1
21.9

Israel 6.5
1.4
7.9
Japan** 16.7
0.6
17.3




* The figures listed in the table are the rates per 100,000 people.
** Suicide figures for Japan also include many homicides.
Source for table: U.S. figures for 1996 are taken from the Statistical
Abstract of the U.S. and FBI Uniform Crime Reports. The rest of the
table is taken from the UN 1996 Demographic Yearbook (1998), cited at
http://www.haciendapub.com/stolinsky.html.

6. Fact: The United States has experienced far fewer TOTAL MURDERS
than Europe does over the last 70 years. In trying to claim that gun-
free Europe is more peaceful than America, gun control advocates
routinely ignore the overwhelming number of murders that have been
committed in Europe.
* Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders
per year, when one includes the murders committed by governments
against mostly unarmed people.17 That murder rate is about 16 times
higher than the murder rate in the U.S.18
* Why hasn't the United States experienced this kind of government
oppression? Many reasons could be cited, but the Founding Fathers
indicated that an armed populace was the best way of preventing
official brutality. Consider the words of James Madison in Federalist
46:
Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be
formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal
government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State
governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the
danger . . . a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens
with arms in their hands.19

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1Kleck, Point Blank, at 393, 394; Colin Greenwood, Chief Inspector of
West Yorkshire Constabulary, Firearms Control: A Study of Armed Crime
and Firearms Control in England and Wales (1972):31; David Kopel, The
Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun
Controls of Other Democracies (1992):91, 154.
2Dr. John R. Lott, Jr., "Gun laws don't reduce crime," USA Today (May
9, 2002). See also Rhett Watson and Matthew Bayley, "Gun crime up 40pc
since Port Arthur," The Daily Telegraph (April 28, 2002).
3 Gary A. Mauser, "The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public
Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales," Public Policy Sources
(The Fraser Institute, November 2003), no. 71:4. This study can be
accessed at http://www.fraserinstitute.org/share...sNav=pb&id=604.
4"Handgun crime 'up' despite ban," BBC News Online (July 16, 2001) at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk...00/1440764.stm.
England is a prime example of how crime has increased after
implementing gun control. For example, the original Pistols Act of
1903 did not stop murders from increasing on the island. The number of
murders in England was 68 percent higher the year after the ban's
enactment (1904) as opposed to the year before (1902). (Greenwood,
supra note 1.) This was not an aberration, as almost seven decades
later, firearms crimes in the U.K. were still on the rise: the number
of cases where firearms were used or carried in a crime skyrocketed
almost 1,000 percent from 1946 through 1969. (Greenwood, supra note 1
at 158.) And by 1996, the murder rate in England was 132 percent
higher than it had been before the original gun ban of 1903 was
enacted. (Compare Greenwood, supra note 1, with Bureau of Justice
Statistics, Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and
Wales, 1981-96, Bureau of Justice Statistics, October 1998).
5"Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low: police," AFP
News (August 3, 2001); "A crime wave alarms Japan, once gun-free," The
Philadelphia Inquirer, 11 July 1992.
6"Most Crime Worse in England Than US, Study Says," Reuters (October
11, 1998). See also Bureau of Justice Statistics, Crime and Justice in
the United States and in England and Wales, 1981-96 (October 1998).
7See BJS study, supra note 6 at iii.
8John van Kesteren, Pat Mayhew and Paul Nieuwbeerta, "Criminal
Victimisation in Seventeen Industrialised Courtries: Key findings from
the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey," (2000). This study can
be read at http://www.unicri.it/icvs/publications/index_pub.htm. The
link is to the ICVS homepage; study data are available for download as
Acrobat pdf files.
9Ian Henry and Tim Reid, "Crime figures a sham, say police," The
Electronic Telegraph (April 1, 1996).
10Tim Reid, "Police are accused of fiddling crime data," The
Electronic Telegraph (May 4, 1997).
11John Steele, "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent,"
The Electronic Telegraph (July 13, 2000).
12See supra note (Crime figures a sham...)
13Ibid.
14Ibid.
15See supra note (fiddling).
16Dave Kopel, Dr. Paul Gallant and Dr. Joanne Eisen, "Britain: From
Bad to Worse," NewsMax.com (March 22, 2001).
17The number of people killed by their own government in Europe
averages about 400,000 for the last 70 years. This includes Hitler's
extermination of Jews, gypsies and other peoples (20,946,000);
Stalin's genocide against the Ukrainian kulaks (6,500,000); and more.
R.J. Rummel, Death by Government (2000), pp. 8 and 80.
18At our historic worst, murders in the United States approached
25,000 in 1993 -- or 23,180 to be exact. So even applying our highest
single-year tally over the past 70 years would mean that Europeans
have experienced 16 times as many murders as we have in the United
States.
19THE FEDERALIST 46 (James Madison).

In article ,
katy wrote:
And, they have easy access to guns, especially handguns. If you remove
that easy access, then they might have a chance to get help before 33
people die needlessly. Why don't you tell us it's "in the
Constitution" again if it makes you feel better.


Why not start putting insane people back in the institutions where they
belong so they don't jeopardize the lives and welfare of others? Turns
out the guy was clincally diagnosed and was referred by the university
for counseling becasue his creative writing assignments were so
disturbing that the instructor was concerned. And it is the
Constitution, Jon...obviously the American people have not come to a
different conclusion about that or they'd make the quorum to change it...

Why not... good idea. Too bad Reagan didn't think so. Someone
clinically depressed certainly should be restricted from easy access
to guns. Hate to tell you, but the majority of Americans favor more
strick gun control...

Obviously, you don't have the facts...

Some polls:

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLI...uns/index.html

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In article . com,
Joe wrote:
On Apr 17, 11:30 am, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:

And, they have easy access to guns, especially handguns. If you remove
that easy access, then they might have a chance to get help before 33
people die needlessly. Why don't you tell us it's "in the
Constitution" again if it makes you feel better.

--
Capt. JG - Hide quoted text -

Wrong

Right.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com