Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

Maxprop wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...


On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:55:06 -0400, katy said:


From memory didn't it say unemployment was less than 5% and that

although sloppy, the housing market was pretty much stable? And that
durable goods were doing fine?

Jon's hilarious. He's been claiming the economy is in the crapper
constantly
since at least 2002.


I can't wait until we have a (by the Democrat definition) 'recovery.' My
business is immensely prosperous now--it should be off the charts then.

Max



No..ythere will be socialized medicine and you will retire and remember
the good old days...


Not interested in socialized medicine, but what do you think should be
done about the 47 millions currently without healthcare ins and the
millions more without adequate ins?


Contained within those numbers are the thousands upon thousands who
receive Medicaid and who also are never refused treatment at hospitals
emergency rooms...yes...there is a problem with health care in this
country...and it is not limited to just the poor...my solution? We
should get rid of health care insurance entirely and go back to paying
doctors out odf pocket...that way the industry would correct
itslef..there would always be charities, as before health insurance, to
pick up for those that cna't pay...I know the amounts that are spent on
our BCBS policy...we pay half out of pocket plus deductibles etc. There
is no way in current history that we spend that amount on "real" actual
health care...instead of paying out 9-12 K/annumto an insurance company
it couldgo into a specialized medical account..one NOT set up by
insurance companies like is currently ptacticed...the price of health
care would level out to where it is reasonable, litigation would stop
driving the prices higher and higher, doctors would no longer have to
order unnecessary tests for fear of litigation...arbitration would take
on a real and active role rather than using the jury system...

In article ,
katy wrote:
Contained within those numbers are the thousands upon thousands who
receive Medicaid and who also are never refused treatment at hospitals
emergency rooms...yes...there is a problem with health care in this

While most, but not all, are given treatment, there are fewer and
fewer hospitals equiped to deal with emergency care... care that
wouldn't have be emergencies if they had access to preventative
treatment. ER is very, very expensive, and if the person can't pay, we
pay. Since people don't have ins, they tend to wait until the
situation is dire, which complicates treatment and recovery.

country...and it is not limited to just the poor...my solution? We
should get rid of health care insurance entirely and go back to paying
doctors out odf pocket...that way the industry would correct

How do you expect people who are maybe getting minimum wage or have
3/4 kids to pay out of pocket? It might "correct" itself, but between
now and then, many people would die as a result.

itslef..there would always be charities, as before health insurance, to
pick up for those that cna't pay...I know the amounts that are spent on
our BCBS policy...we pay half out of pocket plus deductibles etc. There
is no way in current history that we spend that amount on "real" actual
health care...instead of paying out 9-12 K/annumto an insurance company
it couldgo into a specialized medical account..one NOT set up by
insurance companies like is currently ptacticed...the price of health
care would level out to where it is reasonable, litigation would stop
driving the prices higher and higher, doctors would no longer have to
order unnecessary tests for fear of litigation...arbitration would take
on a real and active role rather than using the jury system...

We need some sort of single-payer option for people... not mandatory,
but available.

--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

Contained within those numbers are the thousands upon thousands who
receive Medicaid and who also are never refused treatment at hospitals
emergency rooms...yes...there is a problem with health care in this


While most, but not all, are given treatment, there are fewer and
fewer hospitals equiped to deal with emergency care... care that
wouldn't have be emergencies if they had access to preventative
treatment. ER is very, very expensive, and if the person can't pay, we
pay. Since people don't have ins, they tend to wait until the
situation is dire, which complicates treatment and recovery.


Sometimes I wonder what world you live in. I worled in the ehalth care
system on and off all my life. I can tell you that the emergency room is
the most abused medical facility that exists. I don't have the actual
statistics but I can guess that 1 out of every 10 patients is an
emergency. That is one of the major reasons insurance companies will now
no longer pay for the actual ER fee if there is not a procedure done or
an admission...as far as the "we pay" part, we will pay no matter what
for that particular segment of society that can't afford it. We pay
through taxes or through chartible contributions. What does it matter
what form it takes?

country...and it is not limited to just the poor...my solution? We
should get rid of health care insurance entirely and go back to paying
doctors out odf pocket...that way the industry would correct


How do you expect people who are maybe getting minimum wage or have
3/4 kids to pay out of pocket? It might "correct" itself, but between
now and then, many people would die as a result.

The problem is not that there isn't health care, it's that people don;t
know where to go to look for it...there are all sorts of prtograms that
are underused...when I was in HR I had a list of health services that
were available at either a gratis rate or fee based on pay...clinics run
by the county and some run by local churches...yet our employees, for
the most part young black women between 20-30 with 2-3 children (paid
BTW, over $10/hr) would still go to the ER when their kids had colds.
ANd we offered excellent inexpensive HMO insurance which the majority
opted to not buy into...many of the pharmaceutical companies have need
based programs now and I know that there are physicians out there that
will do necessary surgery for those who are desperately in need and
can't pay...Some will die, you say...well, this is going to flame
you...not enough people are dying in this country..the lengths we go to
to keep people alive is ridiculous...when people have to start paying
for 350K heart surgeries at the age of 80 then maybe there will be a
wake up call...you would think the whole country believes its going to
Hell when you look at our fear of dying...Dying is the inevitable end
that is supposed to happen, sooner for some than for others...

In article ,
katy wrote:

While most, but not all, are given treatment, there are fewer and
fewer hospitals equiped to deal with emergency care... care that
wouldn't have be emergencies if they had access to preventative
treatment. ER is very, very expensive, and if the person can't pay, we
pay. Since people don't have ins, they tend to wait until the
situation is dire, which complicates treatment and recovery.

Sometimes I wonder what world you live in. I worled in the ehalth care
system on and off all my life. I can tell you that the emergency room is
the most abused medical facility that exists. I don't have the actual

I live in the real world...

Didn't I just say that in other words? It is highly abused for a
couple of reasons. Certainly, people cheat, but the vast majority of
abuse is because people can't pay for a regular doc.

statistics but I can guess that 1 out of every 10 patients is an
emergency. That is one of the major reasons insurance companies will now
no longer pay for the actual ER fee if there is not a procedure done or

Well, sure... I can't imagine them paying for a checkup, but I'm not
talking about that kind of visit. I'm talking about the heart attacks,
pneumonia cases, serious stuff, that are preventable with decent
healthcare on a regular basis.

an admission...as far as the "we pay" part, we will pay no matter what
for that particular segment of society that can't afford it. We pay
through taxes or through chartible contributions. What does it matter
what form it takes?

It matter quite a bit... we pay far more for ER care that shouldn't be necessary if those
people were covered by ins.

country...and it is not limited to just the poor...my solution? We
should get rid of health care insurance entirely and go back to paying
doctors out odf pocket...that way the industry would correct


How do you expect people who are maybe getting minimum wage or have
3/4 kids to pay out of pocket? It might "correct" itself, but between
now and then, many people would die as a result.

The problem is not that there isn't health care, it's that people don;t
know where to go to look for it...there are all sorts of prtograms that

NO. It's that people can't AFFORD IT! Costs continue to skyrocket with
no end in sight.



--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:


While most, but not all, are given treatment, there are fewer and
fewer hospitals equiped to deal with emergency care... care that
wouldn't have be emergencies if they had access to preventative
treatment. ER is very, very expensive, and if the person can't pay, we
pay. Since people don't have ins, they tend to wait until the
situation is dire, which complicates treatment and recovery.


Sometimes I wonder what world you live in. I worled in the ehalth care
system on and off all my life. I can tell you that the emergency room is
the most abused medical facility that exists. I don't have the actual


I live in the real world...

Didn't I just say that in other words? It is highly abused for a
couple of reasons. Certainly, people cheat, but the vast majority of
abuse is because people can't pay for a regular doc.


statistics but I can guess that 1 out of every 10 patients is an
emergency. That is one of the major reasons insurance companies will now
no longer pay for the actual ER fee if there is not a procedure done or


Well, sure... I can't imagine them paying for a checkup, but I'm not
talking about that kind of visit. I'm talking about the heart attacks,
pneumonia cases, serious stuff, that are preventable with decent
healthcare on a regular basis.


an admission...as far as the "we pay" part, we will pay no matter what
for that particular segment of society that can't afford it. We pay
through taxes or through chartible contributions. What does it matter
what form it takes?


It matter quite a bit... we pay far more for ER care that shouldn't be necessary if those
people were covered by ins.


country...and it is not limited to just the poor...my solution? We
should get rid of health care insurance entirely and go back to paying
doctors out odf pocket...that way the industry would correct


How do you expect people who are maybe getting minimum wage or have
3/4 kids to pay out of pocket? It might "correct" itself, but between
now and then, many people would die as a result.

The problem is not that there isn't health care, it's that people don;t
know where to go to look for it...there are all sorts of prtograms that


NO. It's that people can't AFFORD IT! Costs continue to skyrocket with
no end in sight.



Got news for you Jon...those people, with insurance, STILL USE THE
ER!!!!!! Been there...seen it....

In article ,
katy wrote:
Got news for you Jon...those people, with insurance, STILL USE THE
ER!!!!!! Been there...seen it....

Those people?? Don't feel you have to be specific. Are you now
claiming that the majority of those who use the ER for non-ER help are
the insured?


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article ,
katy wrote:

Got news for you Jon...those people, with insurance, STILL USE THE
ER!!!!!! Been there...seen it....


Those people?? Don't feel you have to be specific. Are you now
claiming that the majority of those who use the ER for non-ER help are
the insured?


Many....many people use the ER if they can't get into their family
doctir right away rather than waiting or using a Med Station...I can
never figure that one out since ER's are rife with bacteria and the
chances are that if you weren't sick when you went in you will be when
you leave...