To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
Some of us can afford RF, apparently some can't. :p~



It's not a matter of affording. It's a matter of doing it the right way.
If you're going to use roll-ups, the least you can do is take them down
when you're not using them. Like you said yourself, unattended roll-ups
come unwound in high winds and tear themselves to shreds. The often
damage the boat in the slips beside them. That's not only stupid but
inconsiderate of your neighbor.

Wilbur Hubbard

To snub or not to snub
 

Ed, it is good advice to tie an extra line around a RF sail
when leaving the boat for a while. Many, many, many (
Many,many,many) sails that have been shredded could have
been saved.

Scotty


"Edgar" wrote in message
...


Why do that?
Now you have to go forward to release it before you can
use your jib.
All you have to do with a roller jib is to put enough
turns on the drum so
that you can roll a turn or two of the sheets on top of
the sail. Make sure
the sheets are properly cleated and all is secure and the
sail can be
unrolled instantly when you want it.

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
Some of us can afford RF, apparently some can't. :p~

SBV


And, not all hank-on jibs are "stored" below. Many, such as what was on my
boat before the furler, are stowed at the forestay.

http://www.sailnow.photosite.com/Excalibur/

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
Some of us can afford RF, apparently some can't. :p~

SBV


And, not all hank-on jibs are "stored" below. Many, such as what was
on my boat before the furler, are stowed at the forestay.

http://www.sailnow.photosite.com/Excalibur/

True enough but even bagged sails like that on deck are way less prone
to come out of the bag and flap in the wind. If the bag is sound the
sail should be pretty safe from the elements. Around here marinas during
hurricane warnings are taking down wind up sails and charging their
customers if the customers don't do it themselves.

Wilbur Hubbard

To snub or not to snub
 

Some of us can afford RF, apparently some can't. :p~

SBV




"Willy Hubbard" wrote in

Not a single hank-on sail has been shredded because they
are removed and
stored below. That's the way sails are supposed to be
taken care of. Not
wound up around the head stay and out in the elements when
not being
used.

Wilbur Hubbard

To snub or not to snub
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:15:27 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
m...
Ed, it is good advice to tie an extra line around a RF sail
when leaving the boat for a while. Many, many, many (
Many,many,many) sails that have been shredded could have
been saved.

Scotty


Not a single hank-on sail has been shredded because they are removed
and
stored below. That's the way sails are supposed to be taken care of.
Not
wound up around the head stay and out in the elements when not being
used.


Yes, I've seen many times how hanked on sails are cared for. It's not
pretty.
Wet, dirty and either quicky stuffed in a bag to molder, or crunched
up and
stuffed through the forward hatch. Roller furling is MUCH kinder to
head sails.

I always have several wraps of the sheets PLUS a sail tie. There is no
issue
with removing the sail tie, because every competent captain does a
walk around
of the boat before leaving the dock or mooring. Only a complete lubber
would
argue with this. I expect that Neal/Nellen/Wilbur the uber-lubber will
have
something to say!

You bet I have something to say. What you described above is all totally
unnecessary. Get rid of the wind-up headsails and you don't need to
worry about the damned thing unrolling and flogging itself to death in a
severe storm. All this nonsense about putting sail ties and wrapping
extra lines around it is all well and good but how many people actually
take the time to do it. Does the guy in the slip right next to your
precious boat do it? Probably not. I bet if he had hank-on sails they
would be stowed safely away. And what do you care about how somebody
else stores their hank-on sails as long as they don't cause you any
problems. with the safety of your boat? Let sloppy sailors stuff them in
the back caked with salt. They aren't gonna jump out of wherever they
happen to be stowed away and smash the crap out of your boat in a storm
and that's a fact.

As for wind-ups being kind to sails. Hah! They sit out in the weather
and the sun. Often the strip of sunblocking material is half rotted away
which means the leech and luff of the sail are also getting eaten away
with UV rays. The whole idea is a mockery of proper seamanship. I
consider every sailboat I see that has wind-up sails a slovenly
proposition. I don't even want to be near them.

Wilbur Hubbard

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

That's a good idea, and one I've done with another type of roller furling.

The night in question was forecast to be rather nasty, but the NWS couldn't
have imagine the wide area of 100mph+ straight-line winds that blew through
the area for about 3 minutes, followed by 30-40kts. for an hour or so. I
had just installed a new roller furler and a new 155% genoa on Mystique, my
former Mariner 31 ketch. Someone advised me to put a couple of tie lines
around the sail, which I did. I also ran the jibsheet tails around the
winches and cleated the bitter ends. Good move--lots of people lost
headsails that night. Any boat with Hood Linedrive ended up unfurling in
the wind and shredding the sail. A cradle under a boat that hadn't yet been
launched collapsed and damaged the boat. Dozens of docklines--some doubled
and tripled--parted, allowing the boats to sustain damage against the docks.
Some docks broke free, allowing boats to destroy each other. Virtually
everything on the dock, such as dock boxes, grills, picnic tables, etc.
ended up in the water. That was a long time ago, but we still talk about
it.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message

ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a
lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing
genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib,



you should.




Why? What's wrong with the method I described in the secton you deleted?

I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through
one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

Do you take about two or three wraps of the sheets around the genny when you
roll it up? If you're one of those who leaves the clew sticking out behind
the genoa, you should rethink that. You should also pull the sheets taut
around the winches and cleat them--not just in the self-tailing part of the
winch, but a couple of flemishes on a cleat.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:15:27 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
m...
Ed, it is good advice to tie an extra line around a RF sail
when leaving the boat for a while. Many, many, many (
Many,many,many) sails that have been shredded could have
been saved.

Scotty


Not a single hank-on sail has been shredded because they are removed and
stored below. That's the way sails are supposed to be taken care of. Not
wound up around the head stay and out in the elements when not being
used.


Yes, I've seen many times how hanked on sails are cared for. It's not
pretty.
Wet, dirty and either quicky stuffed in a bag to molder, or crunched up
and
stuffed through the forward hatch. Roller furling is MUCH kinder to head
sails.

Not to mention the only way to douse some high-tech laminates. Try stuffing
a mylar/kevlar/spectra/carbon sail in a bag and see what happens.

I always have several wraps of the sheets PLUS a sail tie. There is no
issue
with removing the sail tie, because every competent captain does a walk
around
of the boat before leaving the dock or mooring. Only a complete lubber
would
argue with this. I expect that Neal/Nellen/Wilbur the uber-lubber will
have
something to say!

It's interesting that the best-known, most knowledgeable world cruisers,
such as Evans Starzinger and his wife Beth all use rollers. So do the
Dashews, and even Lin and Larry Pardey put a roller on Taleisin eventually.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

You bet I have something to say. What you described above is all totally
unnecessary. Get rid of the wind-up headsails and you don't need to worry
about the damned thing unrolling and flogging itself to death in a severe
storm.

A few minor precautions that take about 1 minute to employ solve the problem
nicely. I never worry about my headsail.

All this nonsense about putting sail ties and wrapping extra lines around
it is all well and good but how many people actually take the time to do
it.

Everyone I know with roller furling.

Does the guy in the slip right next to your precious boat do it?

Indeed. He's the one who taught me to do it. There's a powerboat on the
other side.

Probably not. I bet if he had hank-on sails they would be stowed safely
away.

Most hanked-on sails, especially the larger genoas, never make it out of the
bag. Instead the idiots generally sail around on the main, too lazy to go
below, lug the heavy bag and sail up onto the deck and bend on the sail.
And those sails stuffed in bags look like **** after a very short time.
They get stained with spider crap, mildew, and lose their sizing much more
quickly than those on rollers.

And what do you care about how somebody else stores their hank-on sails as
long as they don't cause you any problems. with the safety of your boat?
Let sloppy sailors stuff them in the back caked with salt. They aren't
gonna jump out of wherever they happen to be stowed away and smash the
crap out of your boat in a storm and that's a fact.

Perhaps not, but they do often get left on the deck where they can be
stolen, blown into the water, or just accumulate rain and spiders. I'd
never buy another boat without roller furling.


As for wind-ups being kind to sails. Hah! They sit out in the weather and
the sun. Often the strip of sunblocking material is half rotted away which
means the leech and luff of the sail are also getting eaten away with UV
rays. The whole idea is a mockery of proper seamanship. I consider every
sailboat I see that has wind-up sails a slovenly proposition. I don't even
want to be near them.

I see the diametric opposite. Those boats with hanked-on sails are
generally abused and neglected. Those with furlers are the ones cared for
in a seamanlike manner. As for the sun cover, I've replaced my current one
when it showed abrasive wear due to degradation by UV. The sail is perfect,
and about 8 years old.

You're way off base on this issue, Neal. Even the finest vintage wooden
works of art now sport roller furling. But I'm betting there is a urine
yellow Coronado 27 somewhere with a moldy, limp, blown-out headsail that
never makes it onto the forestay.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

On Mar 17, 7:29 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:15:27 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"





wrote:

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...
Ed, it is good advice to tie an extra line around a RF sail
when leaving the boat for a while. Many, many, many (
Many,many,many) sails that have been shredded could have
been saved.

Scotty

Not a single hank-on sail has been shredded because they are removed and
stored below. That's the way sails are supposed to be taken care of. Not
wound up around the head stay and out in the elements when not being
used.

Yes, I've seen many times how hanked on sails are cared for. It's not pretty.
Wet, dirty and either quicky stuffed in a bag to molder, or crunched up and
stuffed through the forward hatch. Roller furling is MUCH kinder to head sails.

Coming from someone who spends an hour maintaing his brightwork on a
C&C I would expect you are surrounded by lazy sailors. Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

Rollup head sails are for lazy sailors. They ruin the shape of the
sail, they have to have sunbrella sewed to the exposed edges, they get
stuck, ect..ect..ect



I always have several wraps of the sheets PLUS a sail tie.

Just how high can you reach with your sail tie? I
I've seen many shredded to peices that had "A" sail tie, in high
winds.


There is no issue
with removing the sail tie, because every competent captain does a walk around
of the boat before leaving the dock or mooring. Only a complete lubber would
argue with this.

Only a lubber would think leaving your sails out in the weather, and
putting a tie around is better then properly storing them in a sail
locker.

Joe

I expect that Neal/Nellen/Wilbur the uber-lubber will have
something to say!

CWM- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To snub or not to snub
 

On Mar 18, 12:01 am, "Scotty" w@u wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com..
.



Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.
;)

Yeah, but it's left in the weather and birds crap on it.

Joe

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message

ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a
lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing
genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib,



you should.




Why? What's wrong with the method I described in the secton you deleted?

I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through
one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

Do you take about two or three wraps of the sheets around the genny when
you roll it up? If you're one of those who leaves the clew sticking out
behind the genoa, you should rethink that. You should also pull the
sheets taut around the winches and cleat them--not just in the
self-tailing part of the winch, but a couple of flemishes on a cleat.


I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't pull the sheets
taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think it's good to have
strain on the winches if it's not needed.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...
A few minor precautions that take about 1 minute to employ solve the
problem nicely. I never worry about my headsail.

All this nonsense about putting sail ties and wrapping extra lines around
it is all well and good but how many people actually take the time to do
it.

Everyone I know with roller furling.

Nearly everyone I know or have seen as well. I also rinse off the furler
with fresh water.

Does the guy in the slip right next to your precious boat do it?

Most hanked-on sails, especially the larger genoas, never make it out of
the bag. Instead the idiots generally sail around on the main, too lazy
to go below, lug the heavy bag and sail up onto the deck and bend on the
sail. And those sails stuffed in bags look like **** after a very short
time. They get stained with spider crap, mildew, and lose their sizing
much more quickly than those on rollers.

Interesting. When I teach on the boat that has the hank-on jib, three jibs
are available. Given the regularly strong winds out here, we hardly ever
break out anything but the smallest of them. We take great care in making
sure it's stowed properly at the end of the day. Take a bit of time making
sure it's folded properly. If it got soaked with salt water, then we have to
lay it out until it dries, which eats up a lot more time.

Perhaps not, but they do often get left on the deck where they can be
stolen, blown into the water, or just accumulate rain and spiders. I'd
never buy another boat without roller furling.

I might buy one, but I'd sure as sh*t put one on sooner vs. later.


I see the diametric opposite. Those boats with hanked-on sails are
generally abused and neglected. Those with furlers are the ones cared for
in a seamanlike manner. As for the sun cover, I've replaced my current
one when it showed abrasive wear due to degradation by UV. The sail is
perfect, and about 8 years old.

So have I. Most people don't sail much, so we see their bagged jib sitting
there collecting all sorts of dirt. Typically, their boat isn't in much
better shape.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

I suppose you bag your main sail everytime, too?
SBV


"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message ...

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
Some of us can afford RF, apparently some can't. :p~



It's not a matter of affording. It's a matter of doing it
the right way.
If you're going to use roll-ups, the least you can do is
take them down
when you're not using them. Like you said yourself,
unattended roll-ups
come unwound in high winds and tear themselves to shreds.
The often
damage the boat in the slips beside them. That's not only
stupid but
inconsiderate of your neighbor.

Wilbur Hubbard

To snub or not to snub
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

I always have several wraps of the sheets PLUS a sail tie.
There is no issue
with removing the sail tie, because every competent
captain does a walk around
of the boat before leaving the dock or mooring. Only a
complete lubber would
argue with this. I expect that Neal/Nellen/Wilbur the
uber-lubber will have
something to say!


that's right, you should check your lights before you leave.
I have to uncleat the bow lines, anyways.

Damn, now I'm agreeing with chuckles!

SBV

To snub or not to snub
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.


Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.
;)

To snub or not to snub
 

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
Ed, it is good advice to tie an extra line around a RF sail
when leaving the boat for a while. Many, many, many (
Many,many,many) sails that have been shredded could have
been saved.

Scotty


Not a single hank-on sail has been shredded because they are removed and
stored below. That's the way sails are supposed to be taken care of. Not
wound up around the head stay and out in the elements when not being used.

Wilbur Hubbard

I am sure that many hank-on sails have been lost overboard because when you
are changing jibs you have to release all the hanks and the sheets before
you can put the old sail down the hatch. Then you have to get the new sail
up, take it out of the bag and get it hanked on while it is trying escape
overboard through the lifelines. Then you have to collect the sheets, which
by this time will have blown oout of reach and fix them back on. finally you
are ready to hoist. All very fine if you have a fit young foredeck hand to
do it for you.
It is a totally different story if you are short handed. With just my wife
as crew I have had the experience of unhanking a jib in the middle of the
English Channel in darkness with the boat doing 8 knots downwind and,
despite that, still showing 45 knots of apparent wind on the indicator from
dead aft. I was sitting by the forestay as it was impossible to stand and
water was being shovelled aboard up to my waist. I had a job to stop the jib
going overboard but finally got it below plus gallons of water into the fore
cabin. There was no way I was going to try and get another jib up in those
conditions.
So now I have a roller jib and I suspect that if you had experienced those
conditions you would change too.

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message

ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a
lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing
genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib,



you should.




Why? What's wrong with the method I described in the secton you deleted?

I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through
one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

Do you take about two or three wraps of the sheets around the genny when
you roll it up? If you're one of those who leaves the clew sticking out
behind the genoa, you should rethink that. You should also pull the
sheets taut around the winches and cleat them--not just in the
self-tailing part of the winch, but a couple of flemishes on a cleat.


I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't pull the sheets
taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think it's good to
have strain on the winches if it's not needed.

Not strain really, but just tension. IF your sheets are slack, the wind can
unwind the turns on your genoa in short order.

Do you clean and repack your winches regularly? That's more important than
leaving them under tension.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coming from someone who spends an hour maintaing his brightwork on a
C&C I would expect you are surrounded by lazy sailors. Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

You'd be surprised at how few people take the time. Well, perhaps you
wouldn't. My impression is that if folks don't have roller furling, they
wish they did. And if they can't afford it, their boats also look to be in
the poverty level. There are always exceptions, but that's the general rule
around here. What I've seen more often is hanked-on headsails dropped to
the deck and shock-corded to a couple of lifeline stanchions--a really lazy
approach that insures the sail's lifespan will be minimal.


Rollup head sails are for lazy sailors. They ruin the shape of the
sail, they have to have sunbrella sewed to the exposed edges, they get
stuck, ect..ect..ect

How do they ruin the shape of the sail?

Just how high can you reach with your sail tie? I
I've seen many shredded to peices that had "A" sail tie, in high
winds.

On my boat the genoa sheets wrap around the sail at the level of the clew,
which is about twelve feet above the deck. I place a single sail tie about
three or four feet below that. I have to stand on the bow pulpit to do it,
however.


Only a lubber would think leaving your sails out in the weather, and
putting a tie around is better then properly storing them in a sail
locker.

Then nearly 90% of sailors are lubbers, because that's the industry estimate
of the number of sailing vessels equipped with roller furling. And some
form of main furling is also increasing, now at about 15% and rising.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
.

Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.


Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.

Not to mention that it takes up *no* storage space in the cabin.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 18, 12:01 am, "Scotty" w@u wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com..
.



Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.
;)

Yeah, but it's left in the weather and birds crap on it.

Hmmm. Must be particularly agile birds in Texas to be able to sit on a
steeply-angled forestay and crap on the sun cover. I've *never* had bird
crap on my headsail. Now the crap on my mainsail cover is another matter.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...
I suppose you bag your main sail everytime, too?
SBV

By all means he does. Only a "lubber" would leave a sail in the elements,
when it can be safely and properly stored below. g

ax

To snub or not to snub
 

On Mar 18, 6:41 am, "Maxprop" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...

Coming from someone who spends an hour maintaing his brightwork on a
C&C I would expect you are surrounded by lazy sailors. Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

You'd be surprised at how few people take the time. Well, perhaps you
wouldn't. My impression is that if folks don't have roller furling, they
wish they did. And if they can't afford it, their boats also look to be in
the poverty level. There are always exceptions, but that's the general rule
around here. What I've seen more often is hanked-on headsails dropped to
the deck and shock-corded to a couple of lifeline stanchions--a really lazy
approach that insures the sail's lifespan will be minimal.

Rollup head sails are for lazy sailors. They ruin the shape of the
sail, they have to have sunbrella sewed to the exposed edges, they get
stuck, ect..ect..ect

How do they ruin the shape of the sail?

A sail is not flat, to maintain it's proper shape it can not be
rolled up.

Just how high can you reach with your sail tie? I
I've seen many shredded to peices that had "A" sail tie, in high
winds.

On my boat the genoa sheets wrap around the sail at the level of the clew,
which is about twelve feet above the deck. I place a single sail tie about
three or four feet below that. I have to stand on the bow pulpit to do it,
however.

Only a lubber would think leaving your sails out in the weather, and
putting a tie around is better then properly storing them in a sail
locker.

Then nearly 90% of sailors are lubbers,

Thats about right, it thought it was closer to 98% who are lubbers.

because that's the industry estimate
of the number of sailing vessels equipped with roller furling. And some
form of main furling is also increasing, now at about 15% and rising.

What only 15% are total idiots?

Joe

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message

ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a
lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing
genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib,



you should.




Why? What's wrong with the method I described in the secton you
deleted?

I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through
one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

Do you take about two or three wraps of the sheets around the genny when
you roll it up? If you're one of those who leaves the clew sticking out
behind the genoa, you should rethink that. You should also pull the
sheets taut around the winches and cleat them--not just in the
self-tailing part of the winch, but a couple of flemishes on a cleat.


I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't pull the sheets
taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think it's good to
have strain on the winches if it's not needed.

Not strain really, but just tension. IF your sheets are slack, the wind
can unwind the turns on your genoa in short order.

Do you clean and repack your winches regularly? That's more important
than leaving them under tension.

Max

Haven't had to yet... I've only owned the boat a short time and the previous
owner did that relatively recently.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't
pull the sheets
taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think
it's good to have
strain on the winches if it's not needed.


strain?

Stain.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Hmmm. Must be particularly agile birds in Texas to be able to sit on a
steeply-angled forestay and crap on the sun cover. I've *never* had bird
crap on my head. Now the crap on my mainsail cover is another matter.


Most people don't have that problem... sorry, couldn't help it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
thlink.net...

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Coming from someone who spends an hour maintaing his brightwork on a
C&C I would expect you are surrounded by lazy sailors. Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

You'd be surprised at how few people take the time. Well, perhaps you
wouldn't. My impression is that if folks don't have roller furling, they
wish they did. And if they can't afford it, their boats also look to be
in the poverty level. There are always exceptions, but that's the general
rule around here. What I've seen more often is hanked-on headsails
dropped to the deck and shock-corded to a couple of lifeline stanchions--a
really lazy approach that insures the sail's lifespan will be minimal.


Rollup head sails are for lazy sailors. They ruin the shape of the
sail, they have to have sunbrella sewed to the exposed edges, they get
stuck, ect..ect..ect

How do they ruin the shape of the sail?

Just how high can you reach with your sail tie? I
I've seen many shredded to peices that had "A" sail tie, in high
winds.

On my boat the genoa sheets wrap around the sail at the level of the clew,
which is about twelve feet above the deck. I place a single sail tie
about three or four feet below that. I have to stand on the bow pulpit to
do it, however.


Only a lubber would think leaving your sails out in the weather, and
putting a tie around is better then properly storing them in a sail
locker.

Then nearly 90% of sailors are lubbers, because that's the industry
estimate of the number of sailing vessels equipped with roller furling.
And some form of main furling is also increasing, now at about 15% and
rising.

Max



I've never had anyone say to me "I'm glad I don't have a furler." I've heard
people say, "I can't afford one" and "I'm putting it on next season."

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

To snub or not to snub
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a
dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.
;)

Yeah, but it's left in the weather and birds crap on it.


It's protected by a Sunbrella cover. I've never had any
birds crap n my boat (yet).

SBV

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
thlink.net
....

Hmmm. Must be particularly agile birds in Texas to be
able to sit on a
steeply-angled forestay and crap on the sun cover. I've
*never* had bird
crap on my headsail. Now the crap on my mainsail cover is
another matter.


WHAT ? !!! You leave your main sail on the boom??????
OMG!!!!!!


S

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't
pull the sheets
taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think
it's good to have
strain on the winches if it's not needed.


strain?

To snub or not to snub
 

Any sail maker will tell you, the best way to store a sail
is to roll it up.

Scotty



"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
On Mar 18, 6:41 am, "Maxprop"
wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message


oups.com..
..

To snub or not to snub
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net..
..

Any boat with Hood Linedrive ended up unfurling in
the wind and shredding the sail.

Do you know what, exactly, failed on them?

Scotty

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net..
.

Any boat with Hood Linedrive ended up unfurling in
the wind and shredding the sail.

Do you know what, exactly, failed on them?

The owners failed. Linedrives use a looped furling line, and even if you
cleat off the aft end of the taut loop, the drum will still spin if wind
gets under the edge of the sail on the forestay. The only way to secure a
Hood Linedrive against wind damage is to tie the drum off to a fixed point.
I've never seen a Linedrive owner do that, and wonder why.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message

ink.net...
Yup. Memorial Day, can't recall the year. But we got a
lesson about
docklines that night. Also got a lesson about securing
genoa sheets and
tying a keeper line around the rolled genny.


I don't put a line around the rolled jib,



you should.




Why? What's wrong with the method I described in the secton you
deleted?

I don't put a line around the rolled jib, but I do use a keeper line
through
one of the holes on the drum to the pulpit.

Do you take about two or three wraps of the sheets around the genny
when you roll it up? If you're one of those who leaves the clew
sticking out behind the genoa, you should rethink that. You should
also pull the sheets taut around the winches and cleat them--not just
in the self-tailing part of the winch, but a couple of flemishes on a
cleat.


I generally put a couple of turns around the jib. I don't pull the
sheets taut around the winches. I just cleat them. I don't think it's
good to have strain on the winches if it's not needed.

Not strain really, but just tension. IF your sheets are slack, the wind
can unwind the turns on your genoa in short order.

Do you clean and repack your winches regularly? That's more important
than leaving them under tension.

Max

Haven't had to yet... I've only owned the boat a short time and the
previous owner did that relatively recently.

I make it a habit of repacking the winches on every boat I buy. I assume
the previous owner, despite claiming to have done it recently, never did it
at all, or used a type of grease that's incompatible with a winch's
requirements. My current boat's winches were fine--the owner had done it
correctly just before I bought the boat, but it got done again anyway. I
repack them every three years, but we're in fresh water. I'd do them
annually if in the salt, or at least every other year if in brackish.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 18, 6:41 am, "Maxprop" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...

Coming from someone who spends an hour maintaing his brightwork on a
C&C I would expect you are surrounded by lazy sailors. Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a dry sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

You'd be surprised at how few people take the time. Well, perhaps you
wouldn't. My impression is that if folks don't have roller furling, they
wish they did. And if they can't afford it, their boats also look to be
in
the poverty level. There are always exceptions, but that's the general
rule
around here. What I've seen more often is hanked-on headsails dropped to
the deck and shock-corded to a couple of lifeline stanchions--a really
lazy
approach that insures the sail's lifespan will be minimal.

Rollup head sails are for lazy sailors. They ruin the shape of the
sail, they have to have sunbrella sewed to the exposed edges, they get
stuck, ect..ect..ect

How do they ruin the shape of the sail?

A sail is not flat, to maintain it's proper shape it can not be
rolled up.

I'm aware it's not flat. It has draft, but there is no strain on the
sailcloth if rolled properly. If anything it might bunch up a bit, but
that's no worse than stuffing it into a bad, and probably better for the
sail. Question: if it's wrong to roll a sail with draft, why then do the
manufacturers of high-tech headsails and mains recommend rolling, rather
than folding, them?


Just how high can you reach with your sail tie? I
I've seen many shredded to peices that had "A" sail tie, in high
winds.

On my boat the genoa sheets wrap around the sail at the level of the
clew,
which is about twelve feet above the deck. I place a single sail tie
about
three or four feet below that. I have to stand on the bow pulpit to do
it,
however.

Only a lubber would think leaving your sails out in the weather, and
putting a tie around is better then properly storing them in a sail
locker.

Then nearly 90% of sailors are lubbers,

Thats about right, it thought it was closer to 98% who are lubbers.

Ah, I see you're like Capt. Neal, who believes the whole world is out of
step and he's the only one in step.


because that's the industry estimate
of the number of sailing vessels equipped with roller furling. And some
form of main furling is also increasing, now at about 15% and rising.

What only 15% are total idiots?

Those "total idiots" probably sail more than you, have cleaner, better
cared-for sails than you, and enjoy their sailing more than you do.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...

I've never had anyone say to me "I'm glad I don't have a furler." I've
heard people say, "I can't afford one" and "I'm putting it on next
season."

Absolutely. In fact, the most common comment I hear is, "We have lots of
things we need to buy for the boat, but the roller furling comes first."

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Hmmm. Must be particularly agile birds in Texas to be able to sit on a
steeply-angled forestay and crap on the sun cover. I've *never* had bird
crap on my head. Now the crap on my mainsail cover is another matter.


Most people don't have that problem... sorry, couldn't help it.

You're getting as bad as Scotty.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
thlink.net
...

Hmmm. Must be particularly agile birds in Texas to be
able to sit on a
steeply-angled forestay and crap on the sun cover. I've
*never* had bird
crap on my headsail. Now the crap on my mainsail cover is
another matter.


WHAT ? !!! You leave your main sail on the boom??????
OMG!!!!!!

Hell, I don't even close the ports or the companionway. I just love mildew
and rot.

Max

To snub or not to snub
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
.
Un hanking
flaking, folding and bagging a jib and putting it in a
dry
sail locker
only takes a few minutes.

Rolling up my genny takes about 10 seconds.
;)

Yeah, but it's left in the weather and birds crap on it.


It's protected by a Sunbrella cover. I've never had any
birds crap n my boat (yet).

There's a crab crusher in our marina that has a club-footed staysail. The
staysail resides in a boom bag near the tack when not in use. The owner
told me once that if he doesn't use his staysail regularly, tiny birds build
nests in the damn bag. When he raises that sail after a hiatus, nest
material and eggs go flying everywhere.

Max