Stay tension
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:
Walt wrote:
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:38:14 -0500, Walt wrote:
Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 12:19:22 -0500, Walt wrote:

Rig tension looks about right to me - very loose when the boat is not
actually under way. Why leave the rig under tension any longer than you
need to?

Because flex=fatigue. A rig left loose wears out faster as it flops around.

"Aside from performance and comfort benefits, rig tuning provides
safety and rig longevity. This is because loose wire will get
shock-loaded, which accellerates fatigue, and because tight wire will
load cycle closer to its elastic limit, which also accelerates
fatigue."

He's talking about keelboats, not drysailed dinghys ashore on the dolly.
With the latter (i.e. the boat that's in the picture) it's standard
practice to take the tension off when ashore. On many dinghys this
happens automatically when you drop the jib.

BTW, dinghy sailors know how to tune rig tension ourselves. We don't
need a $110/hr consultant to do it for us.

//Walt

Stay tension
 

"Walt" wrote
BTW, dinghy sailors know how to tune rig tension ourselves. We don't need a $110/hr consultant to do it for us.

How do you do it? Do you sail on one tack with about a 20knot wind and
check the leeward shrouds and tighten the turnbuckles until there's no slack.
And, then come about and sail on the other tack and do the other side? That's
the best way to do it if you don't have some special too. That's what I was
told at least. Oh the forestay you have to tighten so it stays pretty straight
when sailing with your jib. That automatically tightens up the back stay.
But when you have only three stays like my Tangerine it gets more complicated.
Three's harder to get right than four.

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:


Oh, I see! Dinghy rigging is immune to the laws of physics. Who woulda
thunk it?

Thanks for the clarification, Waldo.

Dude, you like really *wasted* that straw man. I mean, there's straw
all over the place now. Hope you're happy.

//Walt

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what would you call your little cat fight with her?


"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Scotty" wrote
I'm starting to worry about Max, first he's spouting gay
rights and now he's arguing about nails with Ellen.

You call what Maxprop does arguing? That's pretty lame
arguing IMO.
No facts, no logic, no system, no couth, no results. lol

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Walt" wrote
BTW, dinghy sailors know how to tune rig tension ourselves. We don't
need a $110/hr consultant to do it for us.

How do you do it? Do you sail on one tack with about a 20knot wind
and
check the leeward shrouds and tighten the turnbuckles until there's no
slack.
And, then come about and sail on the other tack and do the other side?
That's
the best way to do it if you don't have some special too. That's what I
was
told at least. Oh the forestay you have to tighten so it stays pretty
straight
when sailing with your jib. That automatically tightens up the back stay.
But when you have only three stays like my Tangerine it gets more
complicated.
Three's harder to get right than four.

Cheers,
Ellen

No, it is not harder. Tighten all three up to a decent tension so that the
mast is upright and there is no slackness that can lead to fatigue failure
when not in use. Then, when you hoist your jib, tension up the jib really
hard so that the forestay does go a bit slack and the luff wire of the jib
has all the tension. The remaining two shrouds will then be correctly
tensioned.

Stay tension
 

"Walt" wrote in message
...

Rig tension looks about right to me - very loose when the boat is not
actually under way. Why leave the rig under tension any longer than
you
need to?

Because flex=fatigue. A rig left loose wears out faster as it flops
around.

Um. No.

Sorry.

Um. Yes.

Indeed yes if the boat is afloat

Perhaps you should ask Brion Toss.


Be my guest. Phrase the question like this:

"I've got a 505 that I dry sail from a launch dolly. Should I loosen
the rig when I bring her ashore?"

Here's the answer:

Absolutely. With a dry sailed dinghy, you always slacken the rig once
ashore. It takes the tension off the hull, which will fatigue if kept
under load.

Fatigue is failure of a component (in this case a wire) by reason of
repeated cycles of stress which individually are below the elastic limit of
the material. This happens if you leave the rigging slack while the boat is
rocking about on a mooring. I knew a guy who did this and brand new rigging
broke overnight as his mast twanged repeatedly at its rigging as the boat
rolled (shock loads are about three times as stressful as steady loads).
It is not fatigue if the hull slowly distorts under prolonged heavy loading.
This is 'creep' of the hull material and if you must have a dinghy rigged
that tightly then you should certainly slacken it up when you haul her
ashore.

Stay tension
 

"Edgar" wrote
No, it is not harder. Tighten all three up to a decent tension so that the
mast is upright and there is no slackness that can lead to fatigue failure
when not in use. Then, when you hoist your jib, tension up the jib really
hard so that the forestay does go a bit slack and the luff wire of the jib
has all the tension. The remaining two shrouds will then be correctly
tensioned.

It's harder for me because the wire in my jib rusted and the eye splice
and thimble broke right off. I'm having to unstitch all along the luff to get
the rest of the rusty broken wire cable out of there. So I can't hoist up the
jib really hard or it might rip. So I have to do it with the shrouds and stay
all by themselves...

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

"Edgar" wrote
Fatigue is failure of a component (in this case a wire) by reason of
repeated cycles of stress which individually are below the elastic limit of
the material. This happens if you leave the rigging slack while the boat is
rocking about on a mooring. I knew a guy who did this and brand new rigging
broke overnight as his mast twanged repeatedly at its rigging as the boat
rolled (shock loads are about three times as stressful as steady loads).
It is not fatigue if the hull slowly distorts under prolonged heavy loading.
This is 'creep' of the hull material and if you must have a dinghy rigged
that tightly then you should certainly slacken it up when you haul her
ashore.


What about stupid people who make their standing rigging looser for the winter?
They say it's because the cold shrinks the wire and puts more stress on it. Duh?
Maybe that might make sense for wooden masts but not for aluminum masts. Aluminum
shrinks too when it's cold. So the tension stays about the same hot or cold.

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

"Scotty" wrote
what would you call your little cat fight with her?

Maxprop is a her? I don't think so....

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

Edgar wrote:


Because flex=fatigue. A rig left loose wears out faster as it flops

Indeed yes if the boat is afloat

Agreed.

But the boat in the picture is not afloat. It's on a launch dolly.

//Walt

Stay tension
 

Edgar wrote:
"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
"Walt" wrote

BTW, dinghy sailors know how to tune rig tension ourselves.
We don't need a $110/hr consultant to do it for us.

How do you do it?

No, it is not harder. Tighten all three up to a decent tension so that the
mast is upright and there is no slackness that can lead to fatigue failure
when not in use. Then, when you hoist your jib, tension up the jib really
hard so that the forestay does go a bit slack and the luff wire of the jib
has all the tension. The remaining two shrouds will then be correctly
tensioned.

Well, this depends on the boat. I'd say consult the tuning guide for
your boat and sails. (yes, the progeny of the sails makes a difference.)

For my boat, I keep the forestay very loose with several inches of sag.
Then I raise the jib on shore and tension the rig to 150 lbs as measured
by a Loos gauge - at this point the forestay is completely slack. This
gives me a nominal setting which I mark, and I'll go up or down from
there as needed. The jib halyard is tweaked constantly while sailing
(every 30 to 60 seconds) as conditions dictate - more tension for
pointing, less for speed, and quite slack when sailing off the wind.

Other boats are different. Don't try this with a keelboat.

//Walt

Stay tension
 

"Walt" wrote in message
...
For my boat, I keep the forestay very loose with several inches of sag.
Then I raise the jib on shore and tension the rig to 150 lbs as measured
by a Loos gauge - at this point the forestay is completely slack. This
gives me a nominal setting which I mark, and I'll go up or down from
there as needed. The jib halyard is tweaked constantly while sailing
(every 30 to 60 seconds) as conditions dictate - more tension for
pointing, less for speed, and quite slack when sailing off the wind.

Hey, Walt! .You are a dinghy sailer and you have the time to tweak your jib
_halyard_ every 30-60 seconds???
When do you get time to tweak your main and jibsheet, not to mention the
rudder and also looking for the next windshift and/or gusts while also
keeping your eye on your opponents?. Plus sitting her out to keep level
etc.?
My racing has been in lively heavily canvassed 12-14' dinghies and once the
jib is up and the halyard tensioned that is how it remained while other
things occupied my whole time.

Stay tension
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
link.net...

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
. net...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
. ..
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com..
.

On Jan 26, 6:17 pm, "Scotty"
wrote:
Here's a pic of my rigger checking the tension on my
stays.

http://www.badongo.com/pic/430785

Scotty


That picture is old. Her name is Caroline and she is now
in her fifties.

Not buying it. The model is in her teens in the photo, maybe 20 max.
And that Lewmar-type hatch in the photo hasn't been around for thirty
years or more.

Max


She was 35 in the picture. The body was built by ballet.

Do you know that for a fact? If she really was 35, she'd done well to
stay in such awesome shape.

Max


It's fact. Ask some of the folks from Clearwater, Kemah, or Galveston. She
now lives in California and writes screen plays.

--
jlrogers±³©

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"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I'm starting to worry about Max, first he's spouting gay
rights and now he's arguing about nails with Ellen.

Scotty

Sorta hard to be married to a woman for 34 years and not pick up a tidbit or
two of info.

As for gays, I simply fail to see how they've damaged society or trampled
your rights. I generally feel sorry for them--they've chosen a lifestyle
that is fraught with all sorts of problems and issues. But I'm no bigot.
YMMV.

Max

Stay tension
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Walt" wrote
BTW, dinghy sailors know how to tune rig tension ourselves. We don't
need a $110/hr consultant to do it for us.

How do you do it? Do you sail on one tack with about a 20knot wind and
check the leeward shrouds and tighten the turnbuckles until there's no
slack.

Well, it's like this "Ellen." You pull on the little white strings that run
through the pulleys until something goes "boing."

What a phony crock of dog feces you are, Neal. And a closet queen.

Max

Stay tension
 

"Maxprop" wrote
As for gays, I simply fail to see how they've damaged society or trampled your rights. I generally feel sorry for
them--they've chosen a lifestyle that is fraught with all sorts of problems and issues. But I'm no bigot. YMMV.

Chosen? That's not what you said before, Maxprop. You said they didn't have
any choice. You said they were born homosexual because of chemicals and genes
and couldn't help it.
Are you a liar or just forgetful? Did you vote for the 83 billion before you
voted against it?

Cheers,
Ellen

Stay tension
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net.
...

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I'm starting to worry about Max, first he's spouting gay
rights and now he's arguing about nails with Ellen.

Scotty

Sorta hard to be married to a woman for 34 years and not
pick up a tidbit or
two of info.

bet you even wash the dishes sometimes.

Scotty

Stay tension
 

Edgar wrote:

Hey, Walt! .You are a dinghy sailer and you have the time to tweak your jib
_halyard_ every 30-60 seconds???

Yep. It's led back into the cockpit on both sides with a 12-1 purchase
so I don't have to move to reach it. Likewise the vang which is also
tweaked fairly often. Between the two, it's how you "switch gears" to
keep the rig powered up optimally.

When do you get time to tweak your main and jibsheet, not to mention the
rudder and also looking for the next windshift and/or gusts while also
keeping your eye on your opponents?. Plus sitting her out to keep level
etc.?

It's a balancing act. What's most important? Well, all the things you
mention are more important than tuning the rig, and anyone who's
fiddling with strings while ignoring these items is not going to do
well. But it doesn't take much time or effort to reach down and tweak
the rig - well, once you have the centrols installed to make it easy to
do from the cockpit, that is.


My racing has been in lively heavily canvassed 12-14' dinghies and once the
jib is up and the halyard tensioned that is how it remained while other
things occupied my whole time.

I used to sail that way. But once I started tuning on the fly I started
doing much better.

The halyard tension greatly affects sail shape. Take a look at this
picture (not me)
http://www.albacore.org/USA/images/3_MegaWoofPlanes.jpg and observe
the curve in the jib luff - this 'sag' affects the overall shape of the
sail, and the amount of sag is a function of rig tension and wind speed.
Since I mostly sail on inland lakes where the wind is *always* changing
I have to adjust the halyard a lot to keep the jib shape where I want
it. A different boat, more steady wind, and maybe it's not so important...

//Walt

Stay tension
 

"sakenbake" wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net.
..

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I'm starting to worry about Max, first he's spouting gay
rights and now he's arguing about nails with Ellen.

Scotty

Sorta hard to be married to a woman for 34 years and not
pick up a tidbit or
two of info.

bet you even wash the dishes sometimes.

Sometimes?

Max