The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Nigel wrote: very little that needs be paid attention to...

You obviously haven't read either _Maiden Voyage_ or _The Dove_....I
suggest you complete your education regarding young American sailors...

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"katy" wrote
Nigel wrote: very little that needs be paid attention to...

You obviously haven't read either _Maiden Voyage_ or _The Dove_....I suggest you complete your education regarding
young American sailors...


I agree. Nigel's a troll.
And an ignorant troll at that. I don't think he even lives in England. If he does then he's totally
inbred like most of the rest of them over there. Long live the Queen and her inbred drones....

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

OzOne wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:32:31 -0500, katy
scribbled thusly:

Nigel wrote: very little that needs be paid attention to...

You obviously haven't read either _Maiden Voyage_ or _The Dove_....I
suggest you complete your education regarding young American sailors...

I'd suggest you don't take too much notice of The Dove.....primarily a
work of fiction based on some fact.

What facts do you base this information on Mr. OzOne?

Lately I've been reading books about great sea adventures, some of
which for the second or third time. Among them are Robin Lee Graham's
Dove, the story of his journey around the world in a 24 foot sloop
begun when he was only sixteen. Also, Joshua Slocum's classic adventure
Sailing Alone Around the World. Just now I'm reading Apsley
Cherry-Garard's The Worst Journey In the World, named by National
Geographic as one of the greatest adventure stories ever written. I am
drawn to this genre because of my work and travels in more than 90
countries and my journey around the world in 2000, most of the way as a
lone sailor aboard a sailboat. It is to Robin Lee Graham's credit that
his book is now still in print for 31 years and that it is among the
classics recommended in home schooling for young adults. In the last
chapter of the book, still uncertain of his future, he writes that he
and his young wife, Patti, begin to read the Bible together: "Our
finding a belief in God - becoming Christians - was a slow thing.... We
want to work out our lives in the way God intended us to. In reading
the Bible together we were fascinated by the prophecies made two
thousand years and more ago, prophecies which seemed to be coming true,
like the Jews returning to their own country. We have no idea where
these new thoughts and ideas and practices will take us.... But we are
open to whatever direction God will give us. Our belief is simple. It
is the belief that so many of our own generation are discovering - a
belief that God isn't dead as some of the older generation have told
us. In a world that seems to be going crazy we are learning that Jesus
showed men the only way they should live - the way we were meant to
live." Graham's voyage brought him immense intangible wealth -- a
companion for life and the wisdom of discovering a Shepherd for all
eternity. I suggest you read the book Mr OzOne. ...

Capt American




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

OzOne wrote:
I'd suggest you don't take too much notice of The Dove.....primarily a
work of fiction based on some fact.


Capt.American wrote:
Lately I've been reading books about great sea adventures

no doubt


... I am
drawn to this genre because of my work and travels in more than 90
countries and my journey around the world in 2000, most of the way as a
lone sailor aboard a sailboat.

Sailing through lease blocks, of course... and making full use of
charts of the middle of the ocean...



... Graham's voyage brought him immense intangible wealth -- a
companion for life and the wisdom of discovering a Shepherd for all
eternity. I suggest you read the book Mr OzOne. ...


He didn't say he hadn't read it, he said it was largely fiction.

-signed- Injun Ear (formerly known as Eagle Eye)

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

I agree. Nigel's a troll.
And an ignorant troll at that. I don't think he even lives in England. If he does then he's totally
inbred like most of the rest of them over there. Long live the Queen and her inbred drones....

Cheers,
Ellen


Did you ever notice how the Brits always complain about the U.S. until
something comes along that they really need are help for. Like oh, say WWI
and WWII. They are like that annoying little brother that crys and complains
but when they need you they don't hesitate to ask. I don't think Nigel is
really British, just a little boy that is looking for attention because his
mommy isn't home right now to make him some tea.

--
Message posted via BoatKB.com
http://www.boatkb.com/Uwe/Forums.asp...iling/200701/1

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OzOne wrote
OH, and I believe little told by those who feel the need for a
shepherd.....they are for the most unreliable.

Boy do you ever have a surprise coming when you die.... Without our *Shepherd* we
are nothing but lost souls. I pray for you that you see the light before it's too late.

Cheers,
Ellen

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OzOne wrote
No surprises expected..when the light goes out..there is no more.
Enjoy it while you can.

Clueless, totally clueless..... And worse than that---totally illogical.
Think about this. What's better?

1) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and go into oblivion never knowing
you were wrong.
2) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find out what it says is true
and reap the benefits.
3) Don't believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find you were wrong and
go to hell forever.

I choose number 2. If I'm wrong I've lost nothing. If I'm right I've gained everything.
Being a smug know-it-all just isn't worth the risk....

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:53:50 -0500, "Ellen MacArthur"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote
OH, and I believe little told by those who feel the need for a
shepherd.....they are for the most unreliable.

Boy do you ever have a surprise coming when you die.... Without our
*Shepherd* we
are nothing but lost souls. I pray for you that you see the light before
it's too late.

Cheers,
Ellen


No surprises expected..when the light goes out..there is no more.
Enjoy it while you can.

You sound like my brother. I don't have the answer, but I do know one
thing: when my brother and I die, one of us is going to be surprised.

Max

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OzOne wrote in message ...

Hmmmm,
but just think of all the fun and fornication you miss out on while
you do No 2 and find out that ther is nothing there...

Based upon your interpretation of death, why have you adhered to a
Christian-like morality in the conduct of your life? You were a
cop--certainly you understand the ways and means of murder, and how to
eliminate those who offend you without getting caught. Why haven't you
eliminated those you've found disagreeable? And do you cheat regularly on
your wife? Do you rape and pillage if it pleases you?

If not, why not? It certainly can't be for fear of retribution in the
afterlife.

Max

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
OzOne wrote
No surprises expected..when the light goes out..there is no more.
Enjoy it while you can.

Clueless, totally clueless..... And worse than that---totally illogical.
Think about this. What's better?

1) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and go into oblivion never knowing
you were wrong.
2) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find out what it says is true
and reap the benefits.
3) Don't believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find you were wrong and
go to hell forever.

I choose number 2. If I'm wrong I've lost nothing. If I'm right I've gained everything.
Being a smug know-it-all just isn't worth the risk....

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
OzOne wrote
No surprises expected..when the light goes out..there is no more.
Enjoy it while you can.

Clueless, totally clueless..... And worse than that---totally illogical.
Think about this. What's better?

1) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and go into oblivion never knowing
you were wrong.
2) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find out what it says is true
and reap the benefits.
3) Don't believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find you were wrong and
go to hell forever.

I choose number 2. If I'm wrong I've lost nothing. If I'm right I've gained everything.
Being a smug know-it-all just isn't worth the risk....

The only logical approach is ignore what everyone says and live a good
life. If there is a God and Heaven, that will surely be enough.

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Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message ...

Hmmmm,
but just think of all the fun and fornication you miss out on while
you do No 2 and find out that ther is nothing there...

Based upon your interpretation of death, why have you adhered to a
Christian-like morality in the conduct of your life? You were a
cop--certainly you understand the ways and means of murder, and how to
eliminate those who offend you without getting caught. Why haven't you
eliminated those you've found disagreeable? And do you cheat regularly on
your wife? Do you rape and pillage if it pleases you?

If not, why not? It certainly can't be for fear of retribution in the
afterlife.

Max



Obviously Oz thinks for himself and tests his moral standards against a
real, external world. If you believe that morals come from God and are
absolute then you are applying no standard to judge if they are correct
or true. You simply accept them on faith. Since you are a doctor, where
do you draw your distinctions between science and religious dogma? Who
wrote the version of the Bible you cling to? Who were the religious
leaders that set the doctrine you have such faith in? How can you have
faith in the words and writings of middlemen in the business of
religion? Did God speak directly to them or to you? One does not need
religion or government to have a consistent set of morals in which all
live together in peace and harmony. If all the Muslims and Right wing
religious wackos were atheists instead the world would be a better place.

Popeye

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"scbafreak via BoatKB.com" u25927@uwe wrote in message
news:6bcd9c0a73759@uwe...

Did you ever notice how the Brits always complain about the U.S. until
something comes along that they really need are help for. Like oh, say
WWI
and WWII. They are like that annoying little brother that crys and
complains
but when they need you they don't hesitate to ask.

What a complete ignoramus you seem to be.
You are probably too young to remember what happened.
In WW2 we never asked for anything except 'the tools to do the job' and
these the USA provided. We paid for them with all our reserves of gold and
foreign currency and after that was gone USA came up with 'lease/lend'.
Britain has been paying back for that ever since and it was only last week
that it was proudly announced over here that finally we had paid off
everything we owed on that account, amounting, with interest, to about twice
the original figure.
USA came into WW2 because of Pearl Harbour.
And where did you get that idea that Brits always complain about USA. Most
Brits feel closer to USA than the EU.

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"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

OzOne wrote
No surprises expected..when the light goes out..there is no more.
Enjoy it while you can.

Clueless, totally clueless..... And worse than that---totally
illogical.
Think about this. What's better?

1) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and go into oblivion
never knowing
you were wrong.
2) Believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find out what it says
is true
and reap the benefits.
3) Don't believe in what it says in the Bible and die and find you were
wrong and
go to hell forever.

I choose number 2. If I'm wrong I've lost nothing. If I'm right I've
gained everything.
Being a smug know-it-all just isn't worth the risk....

Cheers,
Ellen

It is not for you to choose. Live a decent life and hope for the best at the
end of it.

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"Edgar" wrote
It is not for you to choose. Live a decent life and hope for the best at the
end of it.

Wrong, Edgar! You should read the Bible. You have a clear choice. You can:
1) accept Jesus as your savior and have eternal life
2) reject Jesus as some kind of fairy tale and die
Living a decent life simply won't do it. Hoping for the best is nonsense. You don't
have to hope. Jesus says if you do X you get Y. X being believe his message. Y being
eternal life.

It's that simple.

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Ed,

Have you ever taken notice how when non-Americans put the "Let's knock
on the Americans" it all fun and games but when an American Knocks back,
it taken as a personal afront?

Stay loose Limey, we're only :"Funning Back."

I still remember; Over paid, over sexed and over here, with a smile.

You're right. We got into WW2 when the Japs attacked Pearl Harbor and we
sure fixed their Ass. We invaded Casa Blanca. Take that you slight-eyed
devils.

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

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Wrong Nellen,

You should read the Bible & Biblical History. There are many error in
the Bible that was put together hundreds of years after Jesus' death.
There are other writings of other Apostles that are ignored.

Even your own Bible is a translation, which has many questions in many
statements.

Neal, I'll not question your faith, simply because I don't know. I do
know that your source has errors so I know you don't know.

Beware of False Doctrines!!

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

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Thom Stewart wrote:

Beware of False Doctrines!!



Correct! The Lutherans have it right:

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?...rt cutID=5297

Popeye

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"Thom Stewart" wrote
You should read the Bible & Biblical History. There are many error in
the Bible that was put together hundreds of years after Jesus' death.
There are other writings of other Apostles that are ignored.

What you said's true about the errors. The Bible was put together over some
hundreds of years. Men did it, not God.
I read the *DaVinci Code* and then I read *Truth and Fiction in the DaVinci Code*.
It explains how the Bible was really written and all the lies in the DaVinci Code.
The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written some hundred and
fifty years after Jesus was crucified. Some historians say there are a couple of
missing Gospels that the four reference.
Some parts of the Bible conflict with others. But conflicts are few. Some are
to be expected considering the size of the thing.
What's amazing about the Gospels is how they're so similar. They pretty much tell
the same story about Jesus' life and death. And his teachings.
In order to have the gift of eternal life all you have to do is believe Jesus is God
and he died to forgive people's sins which people can never get rid of themselves no
matter how good a life they try to live. All you have to do is believe the Gospel message
of Jesus and accept his gift and say thank-you and you WILL have eternal life.
Now, it would've been pretty easy to believe Jesus if you'd been alive and
seen him. Seen him killed and then come back to life like lots of people saw him do.
It's hard to believe a story about that happening but there's nothing to lose believing
that story and everything to gain. Only an idiot would reject it.

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Popeye" wrote in message

Obviously Oz thinks for himself and tests his moral standards against a
real, external world. If you believe that morals come from God and are
absolute then you are applying no standard to judge if they are correct or
true. You simply accept them on faith. Since you are a doctor, where do
you draw your distinctions between science and religious dogma? Who wrote
the version of the Bible you cling to? Who were the religious leaders that
set the doctrine you have such faith in? How can you have faith in the
words and writings of middlemen in the business of religion? Did God
speak directly to them or to you? One does not need religion or government
to have a consistent set of morals in which all live together in peace and
harmony. If all the Muslims and Right wing religious wackos were atheists
instead the world would be a better place.

That was a nice speech, Popeye, but completely irrelevant. You have no idea
about my beliefs w/r/t religion. I've never discussed them and don't intend
to do so. My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was imposed
upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of pre-Christian
Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to the Christian
movements, unless you happen to believe that raping, pillaging, and homicide
are moral activities. Religion is not without value.

Max

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 17:09:51 -0500, Ellen MacArthur wrote
(in article ews.net):


"Thom Stewart" wrote
You should read the Bible & Biblical History. There are many error in
the Bible that was put together hundreds of years after Jesus' death.
There are other writings of other Apostles that are ignored.

What you said's true about the errors. The Bible was put together over
some
hundreds of years. Men did it, not God.
I read the *DaVinci Code* and then I read *Truth and Fiction in the
DaVinci Code*.
It explains how the Bible was really written and all the lies in the DaVinci
Code.
The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written some hundred
and
fifty years after Jesus was crucified. Some historians say there are a couple

of
missing Gospels that the four reference.
Some parts of the Bible conflict with others. But conflicts are few.
Some are
to be expected considering the size of the thing.
What's amazing about the Gospels is how they're so similar. They pretty
much tell
the same story about Jesus' life and death. And his teachings.
In order to have the gift of eternal life all you have to do is believe
Jesus is God
and he died to forgive people's sins which people can never get rid of
themselves no
matter how good a life they try to live. All you have to do is believe the
Gospel message
of Jesus and accept his gift and say thank-you and you WILL have eternal
life.
Now, it would've been pretty easy to believe Jesus if you'd been alive
and
seen him. Seen him killed and then come back to life like lots of people saw
him do.
It's hard to believe a story about that happening but there's nothing to lose

believing
that story and everything to gain. Only an idiot would reject it.

Cheers,
Ellen



It is a great story book. Mostly it is whisper down the lane.

--
Mundo, The Captain who is a bully and an ass

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 14:26:08 -0500, Ellen MacArthur wrote
(in article ews.net):


"Edgar" wrote
It is not for you to choose. Live a decent life and hope for the best at the
end of it.

Wrong, Edgar! You should read the Bible. You have a clear choice. You
can:
1) accept Jesus as your savior and have eternal life
2) reject Jesus as some kind of fairy tale and die
Living a decent life simply won't do it. Hoping for the best is nonsense.

You don't
have to hope. Jesus says if you do X you get Y. X being believe his message.
Y being
eternal life.

It's that simple.

Cheers,
Ellen




First of all the bible is a collection of stories from different story
tellers. All of which have been translated, edited, and interpreted during
various periods of times by corrupt and motivated individuals who have molded
the text to meet their needs at the given time. Religion is only faith. Faith
is hope. I suggest you **** in one hand pray into the other. Let me know
which one fills up first.......

--
Mundo, The Captain who is a bully and an ass

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Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message


My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was imposed
upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of pre-Christian
Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to the Christian
movements, unless you happen to believe that raping, pillaging, and homicide
are moral activities.

Max



Aristotle is pre-Christian isn't he?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/aris-eth.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-responsibility/

But where does Christianity come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...n_Christianity

Did you catch the part of where the current concept of God as
omnipotent and all good came from?

If anything, the rise of Christianity led to the Dark Ages - a period of
raping, pillaging and homicide. It was the rise of secularism that led
to the Enlightenment.

Popeye

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Thom Stewart" wrote
You should read the Bible & Biblical History. There are many error in
the Bible that was put together hundreds of years after Jesus' death.
There are other writings of other Apostles that are ignored.

What you said's true about the errors. The Bible was put together over some
hundreds of years. Men did it, not God.
I read the *DaVinci Code* and then I read *Truth and Fiction in the DaVinci Code*.
It explains how the Bible was really written and all the lies in the DaVinci Code.
The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written some hundred and
fifty years after Jesus was crucified. Some historians say there are a couple of
missing Gospels that the four reference.
Some parts of the Bible conflict with others. But conflicts are few. Some are
to be expected considering the size of the thing.
What's amazing about the Gospels is how they're so similar. They pretty much tell
the same story about Jesus' life and death. And his teachings.
In order to have the gift of eternal life all you have to do is believe Jesus is God
and he died to forgive people's sins which people can never get rid of themselves no
matter how good a life they try to live. All you have to do is believe the Gospel message
of Jesus and accept his gift and say thank-you and you WILL have eternal life.
Now, it would've been pretty easy to believe Jesus if you'd been alive and
seen him. Seen him killed and then come back to life like lots of people saw him do.
It's hard to believe a story about that happening but there's nothing to lose believing
that story and everything to gain. Only an idiot would reject it.

Cheers,
Ellen



If in the instant before Hussien neck got snapped he accepted Jesus into
his heart he would go to heaven?

If Hitler had accepted Jesus before the gasoline bath he would be in
heaven too?

All one has to do is believe and have faith and it doesn't matter if
they kill, rape or pillage?

Sounds too good to be true. I think those religious salesmen are
promising something they can't deliver. The salesmen are living pretty
good in the here and now aren't they?

Popeye

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"Popeye" wrote

If in the instant before Hussien neck got snapped he accepted Jesus into his heart he would go to heaven?

Yes.

If Hitler had accepted Jesus before the gasoline bath he would be in heaven too?

Yes.

All one has to do is believe and have faith and it doesn't matter if they kill, rape or pillage?

Yes.

It's God's promise. God knows people are born sinners. He provided a way out for
people because he loves his creation. That way out of sin is through Jesus. Timing
doesn't matter to God. A second is the same as a bazillion years to God. He's out
of time. God knows people's bodies are inconsequential. Only the soul matters. The
soul is eternal. It can be eternal in hell or it can be eternal in heaven.
If bodies matter why would God allow his own body(Jesus) to be tortured and
killed? God made bodies out of the elements of the earth. It's just the way he
arranges those elements that makes people.

Cheers,
Ellen

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"Mundo" wrote
First of all the bible is a collection of stories from different story
tellers. All of which have been translated, edited, and interpreted during
various periods of times by corrupt and motivated individuals who have molded
the text to meet their needs at the given time. Religion is only faith. Faith
is hope. I suggest you **** in one hand pray into the other. Let me know
which one fills up first.......


You're free to chose as you will. Choose wisely.... There are no second chances.

Cheers,
Ellen

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On Fri, 5 Jan 2007 20:16:03 -0500, Ellen MacArthur wrote
(in article ews.net):


"Mundo" wrote
First of all the bible is a collection of stories from different story
tellers. All of which have been translated, edited, and interpreted during
various periods of times by corrupt and motivated individuals who have
molded
the text to meet their needs at the given time. Religion is only faith.
Faith
is hope. I suggest you **** in one hand pray into the other. Let me know
which one fills up first.......


You're free to chose as you will. Choose wisely.... There are no
second chances.

Cheers,
Ellen



It's not a choice. You either have faith or you don't. Like being Gay.

--
Mundo, The Captain who is a bully and an ass

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"Mundo" wrote in message

It's not a choice. You either have faith or you don't. Like being Gay.

Uh oh. Now you've done it. You've trod upon one of the basic tenets of the
liberal, secular-progressive movement. Everyone "knows" that being gay is
genetic, not a choice. Right?

Max

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"Popeye" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message


My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was
imposed upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of
pre-Christian Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to
the Christian movements, unless you happen to believe that raping,
pillaging, and homicide are moral activities.

Max

Aristotle is pre-Christian isn't he?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/aris-eth.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-responsibility/

But where does Christianity come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...n_Christianity

Did you catch the part of where the current concept of God as omnipotent
and all good came from?

If anything, the rise of Christianity led to the Dark Ages - a period of
raping, pillaging and homicide. It was the rise of secularism that led to
the Enlightenment.

Revisionist history, Popeye. But why argue this point with you--your mind
is made up. Funny, however, that no one ever heard much about this point of
view until the so-called "religious right" rose to power and influence in
the USA. Politics and religion seem to be inseparable of late.

Max

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"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Popeye" wrote

If in the instant before Hussien neck got snapped he accepted Jesus into
his heart he would go to heaven?

Yes.

If Hitler had accepted Jesus before the gasoline bath he would be in
heaven too?

Yes.

All one has to do is believe and have faith and it doesn't matter if
they kill, rape or pillage?

Yes.

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Popeye" wrote

If in the instant before Hussien neck got snapped he accepted Jesus into
his heart he would go to heaven?

Yes.

If Hitler had accepted Jesus before the gasoline bath he would be in
heaven too?

Yes.

All one has to do is believe and have faith and it doesn't matter if
they kill, rape or pillage?

Yes.

Well, that does not seem to be a very good deal. You mean that if you spend
your life loving your neighbour and turning the other cheek etc. you are
still only on a par with omeone who has spent his life raping, pillaging and
coveting his neighbours wife etc.? Where is the incentive?

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message

My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was
imposed upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of
pre-Christian Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to
the Christian movements, unless you happen to believe that raping,
pillaging, and homicide are moral activities.
Max
Aristotle is pre-Christian isn't he?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/aris-eth.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-responsibility/

But where does Christianity come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...n_Christianity

Did you catch the part of where the current concept of God as omnipotent
and all good came from?

If anything, the rise of Christianity led to the Dark Ages - a period of
raping, pillaging and homicide. It was the rise of secularism that led to
the Enlightenment.

Revisionist history, Popeye. But why argue this point with you--your mind
is made up. Funny, however, that no one ever heard much about this point of
view until the so-called "religious right" rose to power and influence in
the USA. Politics and religion seem to be inseparable of late.

Max



You cannot refute Aristotle's writings or his influence upon
Christianity. You can't refute his writings on morality predate
Christianity by hundreds of years.

Now you claim my assertion that Christianity led to the Dark Ages is
very recent revisionist history. Not so, but here is something recent:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/...f-theology.asp

Ever notice that virtually all artwork in the Dark Ages is religiously
themed?

Urban centers were controlled by cardinals?

Kings answered to Rome?

Almost all wars were religious based?

Literacy was the dominion of the church?

Science had to comply with religious dogma?

Christianity did not bring morality to the Dark Ages. The Magna Charta
was signed in 1215.

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), the most influential Christian
of his time, bore a deep distrust of the intellect and declared "that
the pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, was a
pagan act and therefore vile." Worthy of sainthood?

Now why were they referred to as the "Dark Ages"?

Christianity flourished and rose during the Dark Ages. The human
condition declined.


Further along the timeline, why did all those Christians people suffer
great risk and flock to America? Did the Mayflower arrive on a sight
seeing tour? A good number of people left Europe to escape Christianity.

Northern Ireland - there are your good Christians! Moral and no pillaging!

Massachusetts burning witches and outlawing Christmas - there are your
good Christians!

Tammy Faye, Pat Robertson, all the TV stars - good Christians!

Rampant homosexuals and pedophiles in the Catholic Church - known
behaviors for decades - good Christians!

Morality exists independent of Christianity. Practitioners of
Christianity have tried to falsely claim a monopoly on morality.

Religion has some value when used by an individual for his own purpose.
Religion applied to groups leads to intolerance, manipulation and worse.
Organized religion is the tool of con men. History shows this repeatedly.

Popeye

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Edgar" wrote...
Well, that does not seem to be a very good deal. You mean that if you spend
your life loving your neighbour and turning the other cheek etc. you are
still only on a par with omeone who has spent his life raping, pillaging and
coveting his neighbours wife etc.? Where is the incentive?

Incentive? Don't you understand no matter how well you live your life or try to live
your life it doesn't matter as far as your salvation's concerned. You can be a regular
Mother Teresa and still not have everlasting life if you deny Jesus. Good works can't
save your soul. Only Jesus can.
It's not the sinning God determines your fate by. It's the repentance and the acceptance
of Jesus. God expects people to sin. Nobody is sin-free. Degrees of sin aren't something
that matters to God. Slapping your wife and murdering your wife are both equal sins in
God's eyes.
It's God's loving and generous offer of salvation rejected that ****es him off enough to
say, "To hell with you!" (literally). Remember one thing then things will make better sense.
God created us in his own image. We are Gods ourselves, then. The difference is while
existing in the flesh we have a decision to make. That decision for those born after
Jesus died is to believe or not to believe Jesus (God). If we don't believe we're
denied the tree of life. Jesus is the new the tree of life denied everybody after
Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and got their fig leave
covered butts kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Popeye" wrote
Religion has some value when used by an individual for his own purpose. Religion applied to groups leads to
intolerance, manipulation and worse.
Organized religion is the tool of con men. History shows this repeatedly.

"Thou shall not put any other Gods before me." --- God.
Organized religion often puts itself before God. That's where it goes wrong...
But, what's another word for organized religion? Organized people! People putting
themselves before God. False, deceiving, arrogant and corrupt people. God knows
them. They will get their just due...

Cheers,
Ellen

Cheers,
Ellen

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 11:11:30 -0500, Popeye wrote
(in article ):

Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Popeye" wrote in message

My point was only that the morality that you and Oz attribute to
'enlightenment' is the result of Judeo-Christian morality which was
imposed upon Europe and much of Asia. Take a look at the history of
pre-Christian Europe as evidence. Not much morality in evidence prior to
the Christian movements, unless you happen to believe that raping,
pillaging, and homicide are moral activities.
Max
Aristotle is pre-Christian isn't he?

http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/aris-eth.htm

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-responsibility/

But where does Christianity come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen..._on_Christiani
ty

Did you catch the part of where the current concept of God as omnipotent
and all good came from?

If anything, the rise of Christianity led to the Dark Ages - a period of
raping, pillaging and homicide. It was the rise of secularism that led to
the Enlightenment.

Revisionist history, Popeye. But why argue this point with you--your mind
is made up. Funny, however, that no one ever heard much about this point
of
view until the so-called "religious right" rose to power and influence in
the USA. Politics and religion seem to be inseparable of late.

Max



You cannot refute Aristotle's writings or his influence upon
Christianity. You can't refute his writings on morality predate
Christianity by hundreds of years.

Now you claim my assertion that Christianity led to the Dark Ages is
very recent revisionist history. Not so, but here is something recent:


http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/...er/tragedy-of-
theology.asp

Ever notice that virtually all artwork in the Dark Ages is religiously
themed?

Urban centers were controlled by cardinals?

Kings answered to Rome?

Almost all wars were religious based?

Literacy was the dominion of the church?

Science had to comply with religious dogma?

Christianity did not bring morality to the Dark Ages. The Magna Charta
was signed in 1215.

Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), the most influential Christian
of his time, bore a deep distrust of the intellect and declared "that
the pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, was a
pagan act and therefore vile." Worthy of sainthood?

Now why were they referred to as the "Dark Ages"?

Christianity flourished and rose during the Dark Ages. The human
condition declined.


Further along the timeline, why did all those Christians people suffer
great risk and flock to America? Did the Mayflower arrive on a sight
seeing tour? A good number of people left Europe to escape Christianity.

Northern Ireland - there are your good Christians! Moral and no pillaging!

Massachusetts burning witches and outlawing Christmas - there are your
good Christians!

Tammy Faye, Pat Robertson, all the TV stars - good Christians!

Rampant homosexuals and pedophiles in the Catholic Church - known
behaviors for decades - good Christians!

Morality exists independent of Christianity. Practitioners of
Christianity have tried to falsely claim a monopoly on morality.

Religion has some value when used by an individual for his own purpose.
Religion applied to groups leads to intolerance, manipulation and worse.
Organized religion is the tool of con men. History shows this repeatedly.

Popeye












HOY HOY

--
Mundo, The Captain who is a bully and an ass

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Mundo" wrote in message



It's not a choice. You either have it or you don't. I Like
being Gay.


You sure fooled me.

Scotty

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

Nellen,

Your answer about Saddam and heaven brings a need in my mind for an
answer to the question; Where is Heaven's location? Is it a phyical
location? Is that where God's throne is located? Is there a right hand
side of God's throne?

Is it just a creation man? Is God just a creation of man? Is Hell a
man's creation? Purgatory? Saints?

Does it matter?

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Thou shall not put any other Gods before me." --- God.

There is only one God whether you call Him/Her?It God, Shiva, Allah,
Jehovah, or Jimmy Crack Corn....we just all see GGod differently....

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and got
their fig leave
covered butts kicked out of the Garden of Eden.

So they were a bit slow on the draw, repentancewise?

The Empire Crumbles: More American Buffoonery
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Organized people! People putting
themselves before God. False, deceiving, arrogant and corrupt people. God
knows
them. They will get their just due...

Not if they see their end coming and get the words out quickly enough,
according to you...