Unaware !
 

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 30 Nov 2006 19:58:54 -0800, "Joe" wrote:


Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote
Unaware was what I found amazing, hence the title.


Good job, Joe! Did you notice Jeff and Otn have nothing to say about it?
Did you notice too how it's always the motor boat's fault every time there's a
collision? Then reporters act like sailboaters just go around hitting things. Duh!


Cheers,
Ellen

Could have been the sailboats fault.

If it is anything like the coal barges running the Gulf Intercoastal,
that is more than likely the case. Probably channel bound with
limited ability to manuever even if he knew the sailboat was there.
Says "in tow" . Mean pushed or truly in tow? If in tow and the barge
hit him, then he was on collusion with the barge to start with,
providing the tow train was not turning. If so, why did he not just
come about and avoid?

Course it could have been that both were in a channel and passing.

We havent heard the whole story, just one side of it. I can understand
how you may not feel the barge take out a little sailboat like a
coronado 28 or a Tangerine.

That kind of tonnage differential. Not likely with a 33', however
would it not have shown up on radar?



It's the 5 hr not knowing someones on a barge that has me scratching my
head.

Not enough info. Was the guy holed up in a barge compartment or doing
calistinics on the deck. Was there fog.

Sailing in an area of high barge train traffic, I always relied on
"common sense" to make sure I avoided anything using the intercoastal
that looked like they needed to be there more than I did.

Frank

With what little info we have... I'd say it was an offshore barge
towing astern on a hawser. A 70ft tug is overkill of a 110' barge on
the ICW, bout right offshore. If he were in the ditch he would have
been pushing. And he would have noticed hitting the boat as it
compressed into the mud with that small of a barge, and he would have
to pay enough attention to not ground the boat and IMO would see a
sailboat.

I think either the guy sailed right into the hawser astern, got
dragged to the barge, or he was overtaken and the same thing happened
offshore. Sounds to me like the tug and barge were on a gravy run and
became lazy and complacent.

Joe





Joe

Unaware !
 

On the issue of reporting..... we all know that the accuracy of most news
reports is highly suspect and generally based on how the reporter perceives
or wishes an item to be perceived, so, hence why it's always best to wait
before commenting....

As for sailboats hitting stuff.....bull.... many sailboats are capable of
speeds and maneuvers, above what some slug powerboats ever thought of.
Personally, I go around worrying what any "vessel" is apt to be doing and
whether it may hit me.

Concerning the guy being handcuffed..... considering the post 9/11 security
crap now in place on commercial vessels and frame of mind of those in
"homeland security" regarding anything out of the ordinary....those actions
don't surprise me at all.

otn




"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
reenews.net:


"otnmbrd" wrote
BG ....and he should have been showing RAM lights....why?

If he was RAM and showing shapes/lights then it was the sailboat's
fault for not giving way.
If he wasn't RAM it was his fault for not giving way. Sailboats have
to keep clear of RAMs but RAMs have to identify themselves so people
know what they are. Towboats are motorboats unless they're RAM so they
have to keep clear of sailboats.
They said it happened off the coast near St. Augustine, FL. That
means open water so they
can't claim narrow channels and all that shall not impede stuff. If it
was in a channel they'd have said it happened in the channel not off
the coast. Duh.
If you ever sailed a little sailboat you'd know we spend most of
our time looking for and
worrying about motorboats hitting us. Sailboats just don't go around
hitting things. For one thing it's hard to hit things. We go so slow.
Even if you try to hit a motorboat it's not that easy to do.....
Be honest now. Don't you think the reporting made it sound like
the sailboat was in the wrong?
How's about some fair and balanced once in a while. A man gets run
down by a tow boat barge and then gets treated like a criminal. He
lost his boat and coulda lost his life. Where's the justice?

Cheers,
Ellen

Unaware !
 

Trouble in River City...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Seahag" wrote in message
...
There's gonna be trouble now! Hahahahaha!

Seahag

"Capt. JG" wrote:
You called Neal missy!!!

"otnmbrd" wrote:

I can't speak for Jeff, missy, but unlike you, I don't make judgements
based on scanty information.....EG....probably why you have so much
trouble understanding and applying the "Rules".

otn

Unaware !
 

"Joe" wrote
U.S. Coast Guard | November 29, 2006
Jacksonville, FL. - The Coast Guard has removed a man found on a barge
this morning whose sailing vessel collided with a tug and barge today
at about 5a.m.


I found pictures and a video he https://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/586/138475/
No RAM dayshapes on the towboat just like I thought. Not in channel just like I thought.
Towboat at fault just like I thought....

Cheers,
Ellen

Unaware !
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote
U.S. Coast Guard | November 29, 2006
Jacksonville, FL. - The Coast Guard has removed a man found on a barge
this morning whose sailing vessel collided with a tug and barge today
at about 5a.m.


I found pictures and a video he https://www.piersystem.com/go/doc/586/138475/
No RAM dayshapes on the towboat just like I thought. Not in channel just like I thought.
Towboat at fault just like I thought....

Cheers,
Ellen

So Ellen who's to blame if the sailor T-boned the tow line behind the
tug if the tug had proper running lights?

Joe

Unaware !
 

"Joe" wrote
So Ellen who's to blame if the sailor T-boned the tow line behind the
tug if the tug had proper running lights?


If the tugboat and barge had proper lights it's still their fault. Colregs require them to give
way to the sailboat. But the sailboat needs to have proper lights too so it can be seen. Who knows
if it did. Some sailboats turn off their lights offshore.
The sailboat is entitled by the rules to be the stand-on vessel.
But, if the sailboat hit the hawser cable he shouldn't have because the rules say he should
avoid a collision if the give way towboat/barge wasn't giving way.
When they go to court and court assigns percentage of blame, the towboat/barge gets 90%
blame and the sailboat gets 10% blame. The sailboat would get all the blame if the towboat/barge
was RAM but you can see in the picture it wasn't.

Cheers,
Ellen