Sometimes the USCG takes safety too far. 50 years ago this
would not have happened. But today, most of the people in
the USCG can't even sail--they are powerboaters and unable
to comprehend what seamanship really is.

I was talking to a charter schooner operation down south
that had a pretty schooner for sale. I liked everything about
the boat. The one issue that really irked me was the USCG
would not allow them to fly all their sails when in charter. The
were limited to just four sails. Jib, staysail, foresail, and main.

No top sails were allow. No fisherman sail.

How could they take such a pretty boat and then handicap it
so that the experience was not authentic.

Bart wrote:

Sometimes the USCG takes safety too far. 50 years ago this
would not have happened. But today, most of the people in
the USCG can't even sail--they are powerboaters and unable
to comprehend what seamanship really is.

I was talking to a charter schooner operation down south
that had a pretty schooner for sale. I liked everything about
the boat. The one issue that really irked me was the USCG
would not allow them to fly all their sails when in charter. The
were limited to just four sails. Jib, staysail, foresail, and main.

No top sails were allow. No fisherman sail.

How could they take such a pretty boat and then handicap it
so that the experience was not authentic.

Authentic? On a tourista charter?

I've been on some of those "sailing" excursions where they motor out of
the harbor, hoist a sail or two for show, motor around for an hour, then
pull the sails down and motor back.

Hey, I wouldn't waste my time complianing about not having every stich
of canvass flying, if you could just get them to turn off the frickin
motor you'd be way ahead on the authenticity scale.

Walt wrote:

Authentic? On a tourista charter?

I've been on some of those "sailing" excursions where they motor out of
the harbor, hoist a sail or two for show, motor around for an hour, then
pull the sails down and motor back.

Hey, I wouldn't waste my time complianing about not having every stich
of canvass flying, if you could just get them to turn off the frickin
motor you'd be way ahead on the authenticity scale.

You have a point Walt. I've seen that sort of thing happen.

On the other hand, sometimes, people do like putting on a show.
A schooner with topsails set is a pretty sight--it should not be
discouraged. And certainly not in light wind situations.

The skipper should be making such decisions based on wind
strength and point of sail--not because of a CG edict.

Walt wrote:
Authentic? On a tourista charter?

I've been on some of those "sailing" excursions where they motor out of
the harbor, hoist a sail or two for show, motor around for an hour, then
pull the sails down and motor back.


Depends very much on the boat. I don't generaly go on such
things... the last one was a skipjack charter... but some of
the boats are more tourista-y than others.


Hey, I wouldn't waste my time complianing about not having every stich
of canvass flying, if you could just get them to turn off the frickin
motor you'd be way ahead on the authenticity scale.


A lot of times, those touristy "sailing" excursions cover
the sound of the engine by playing Jimmy Buffet real loud.


Bart wrote:
You have a point Walt. I've seen that sort of thing happen.

On the other hand, sometimes, people do like putting on a show.
A schooner with topsails set is a pretty sight--it should not be
discouraged. And certainly not in light wind situations.

The skipper should be making such decisions based on wind
strength and point of sail--not because of a CG edict.


It's also a question of crew... are they busy running around
handing out funny-colored drinks with little umbrellas? Or
are they actually sailors?

DSK

DSK wrote:
It's also a question of crew... are they busy running around
handing out funny-colored drinks with little umbrellas? Or
are they actually sailors?

Now this is an interesting topic--the crews. They can be divided
into two groups--small businesses and non-profits.

Of the two groups, I like the small business owners/operators the
best. These are sailors like you and I that fell in love with a
schooner and bought it and perhaps made it into a business or
part-time business.

On the other hand non-profits are run by that useless appendage
known as a non-profit-executive. These people are too worried
about making enough money to cover their own salaries, that they
tend to treat their skippers and crew like pawns.

These crews seem to be more out side the industry than in it.
Perhaps when you have a group of people spending so much
time together, you don't need to socialize or interact without
others in the sailing industry.

With a few excpetions, in the times I've talked to crews of
non-profit type tall-ships, they tend to be somewhat closed to
conversation--even rude--perhaps it's because when I wanted
to talk about sailing either they didn't understand what I was
talking about, or else they copped a superior attitude because
their boat was bigger or something. Perhaps they were just
too used to dealing with the public and viewed everyone as
a mark.

One group got a bit ****ed at me when I pointed out the inflatable
with the 50 HP outboard ruined the effect of the classic look.

Another time I was asking about rigging conventions--which side
the peak and throat halyards were located, etc, and got a snide
response and that was it.

Crew are often not particularly good sailors, although there
are exceptions. Many of these crew positions are filled with
free volunteers or filled at very low wages. Good sailors in Mate
positions are those looking for sea-time on higher tonnage vessels .
Once they get that and a license, they move on to better paying
situations.

The less experienced volunteers are really more tour guides, nanny's,
and lonely hearts than sailors. What serious sailor wants to dress up
like a pirate every day?

They only time I got friendly with a crew was one that was berthed
near me, and after I sailed circles around him racing Soling's, he let
me steer and dock "his" schooner, and taught me one interesting trick
about
docking--for which I'm exceedingly grateful. I reciprocated by letting
him
use our clubs Soling's whenever he wanted--he was a good sailor but his

sail trim needed a little improvement--you can understand
why--schooners
tend to have old blown out sails and they are not particularly
sensitive to
sail trim, off the wind.

Regarding the skippers: They tend to be very, very good, and they
are always licensed. The vessels are inspected, so they know
their stuff, hoist day shapes--when no one else does, and manage
their crews very well. I have not met one yet that was not highly
qualified. They still tend to be underpaid but commanding a tall-ship
is
it's own reward. IMHO, Mate's tend to be good sailors too.

Bart wrote:

With a few excpetions, in the times I've talked to crews of
non-profit type tall-ships, they tend to be somewhat closed to
conversation--even rude--perhaps it's because when I wanted
to talk about sailing either they didn't understand what I was
talking about, or else they copped a superior attitude because
their boat was bigger or something. Perhaps they were just
too used to dealing with the public and viewed everyone as
a mark.


Or maybe they just didn't want to waste their time talking to a pompous
know-it-all blowhard.

//Walt

"Bart" .@. wrote in message
...
Sometimes the USCG takes safety too far. 50 years ago
this
would not have happened. But today, most of the people in
the USCG can't even sail--they are powerboaters and unable
to comprehend what seamanship really is.

I was talking to a charter schooner operation down south
that had a pretty schooner for sale. I liked everything
about
the boat. The one issue that really irked me was the USCG
would not allow them to fly all their sails when in
charter. The
were limited to just four sails. Jib, staysail, foresail,
and main.

No top sails were allow. No fisherman sail.

How could they take such a pretty boat and then handicap
it
so that the experience was not authentic.


I didn't know the CG had the authority for something like
that.
Don't they still train recruits on the Eagle? I guess only
a handful, huh?
At least the Navy still sails. Saw them racing their 44s
down in Annapolis.

Scotty

Scotty wrote:
I didn't know the CG had the authority for something like
that.
Don't they still train recruits on the Eagle? I guess only
a handful, huh?
At least the Navy still sails. Saw them racing their 44s
down in Annapolis.

The coasties do sail their middies on the Eagle. It is not
the same thing as getting small boat sailing time.

Take a look at their regulations. No one ever considers
sailing, and sail training in the USCG certifications. Laws
in many areas are ambiguous and poorly defined. That
tells me, they don't have enough sailors in the USCG.

Anyone can steer a powerboat. It takes skill to sail.