Pentax main, standard battens, one full at top, rope bolt rope.

Actually the price of 1600 doesn't change much. This loft does not
charge for full battens, reef points and so on. You can customize the
sail as you please and you WON'T be charged an insane amount for things
like added roach.

Since you're a racer and more advanced in your requirements, I'd
suggest you speak to the loft directly. If you have genuine interest,
contact me off this nutty group. At the very least you might find a
discussion with this particular loft very interesting. It's run by a
guy who was formerly with North sails. His opinion that Pentax Mylar
could be used on larger boats, where the scrim might be tested, created
some heavy traffic in other forums. Of course application is
everything.


RB

Actually the price of 1600 doesn't change much. This loft does not
charge for full battens, reef points and so on. You can customize the
sail as you please and you WON'T be charged an insane amount for things

like added roach.

I downgrade from Kevlar to Pentex. Eliminate full battens.
Eliminate one set of reefs. And the price stays the same?
LOL........... What loft doesn't charge for full battens and associated
hardware or maybe more importantly the added labor for extra sets of
reef points etc? I guess your midnight guy also pays the same for
Pentex as he does for Kevlar. More proof that your guy is just running
the sewing machine after hours and stealing his bosses fabric.
By the way any quote from a sailmaker always assumes max roach. The
only time anyone would do any mods to the roach would be to eliminate
it because of in mast furling where you can't use battens. Roach is
unmeasured sail area. I don't know anyone who would give that up.

I downgrade from Kevlar to Pentex. Eliminate full battens.
Eliminate one set of reefs. And the price stays the same?

Not the same, just not much less since the quote is already quite low.

LOL........... What loft doesn't charge for full battens and
associated
hardware or maybe more importantly the added labor for extra sets of
reef points etc?

All of the lofts sails are priced to START with full battens, two
reefs, leech line and so on. His loft builds the price in. Most of his
sails are ordered that way.

I guess your midnight guy also pays the same for
Pentex as he does for Kevlar. More proof that your guy is just running

the sewing machine after hours and stealing his bosses fabric.

What do you think labor makes at Doyle or UK? I know...and I was
surprised. The woman who does my canvas works for Doyle and used to
work for UK here, and was at North years ago. She makes less than 20
dollars per hour. How long do you think it takes her to make an extra
set of reefs and what is that really worth? I know what he's paying for
Kevlar vs. Pentax. It's actually how my first discussion started off
because I felt he charged way less to exotic fabrics than others. He
then explained the actual cost differences from buying them to working
with them and associated waste. Most lofts are simply stealing from you
and I can prove it if you'd like to actually call the loft. It's up to
you.


By the way any quote from a sailmaker always assumes max roach.

When I spoke to Steve Beck at Ullman we talked about a roach of 6.5%.
My current roach is 8.5% and just kisses the backstay at times,
depending on backstay tensio. Speaking to Mark Ploch at Doyle a roach
of 6% was discussed, though 9% was doable. Which one is max?

http://www.reproducts.de/museum/2005...mart/smart.jpg

It's easy for you to sit in your chair and say the guy is stealing
fabric and so on. E-mail me and you can contact this loft directly. You
can see the place as well and he'll happily tell you where North is
getting most of their sails and much more. Then again, to be fair, the
USA is not making the best sails.
I appreciate that you've been sailing far longer and must have more
sail knowledge than I do. But that doesn't mean I haven't found
something worthwhile in a small well run family loft. The total order
cost for my friend's Tartan 37 was 3700.00 for cruise radial sails,
full batten main and 125% genoa. Do you know what other lofts would
charge? They have a lot of add space to cover.


RB
35s5
NY

Oh. and one more thing. My sails, built by the loft in question, were
sold to me with a money back guarantee. I brought them to Doyle and
they admitted they were very nice sails. It was sure in their best
interest to tell me they should go back as I had spec'd out a job from
them for main and jib plus stackpack. My "bargain" sails cost them that
job.



RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...


What do you think labor makes at Doyle or UK? I know...and I was
surprised. The woman who does my canvas works for Doyle and used to
work for UK here, and was at North years ago. She makes less than 20
dollars per hour. How long do you think it takes her to make an extra
set of reefs and what is that really worth? I know what he's paying for
Kevlar vs. Pentax. It's actually how my first discussion started off
because I felt he charged way less to exotic fabrics than others. He
then explained the actual cost differences from buying them to working
with them and associated waste. Most lofts are simply stealing from you
and I can prove it if you'd like to actually call the loft. It's up to
you.



What do you think it costs to hire a person?

7% for SSI

5% for Medicare

2% Unemployment insurance

$3/hr for health insurance

Rent at $20/sq ft

Heating and cooling

Electricity

Secretary and HR costs

and there is more.


If one buys sails from you they are putting people out of work.

Next you will be offering heart surgery in the back alley.

If one buys sails from you they are putting people out of work.




The loft in question in located in this country and does far less
importing than any major loft of course.
This is not about "buying from me." I'm not working for any loft.



RB
35s5
NY

You an see the place as well and he'll happily tell you where North
is
getting most of their sails and much more.

As far as North goes if he's telling people anything other than Navada
he's risking going to court.

Ringmaster wrote:
You an see the place as well and he'll happily tell you where North
is
getting most of their sails and much more.

As far as North goes if he's telling people anything other than Navada
he's risking going to court.



Why argue with me about it? You can talk to the loft anytime you want.
Simple: contact me off this forum and you can talk with the loft
directly.
I'll say this with utter certainty. North is not making all their sails
in Navada, Niether is Doyle.
I'm done talking about this here. Do and believe as you wish.


RB
35s5
NY