DSK wrote:

I love it when the wind blows like double-stink, and IMHO if
the RC cancels a race in conditions where I am more likely
to do well, then my score is being prejudiced. I don't need
a nanny, and don't want one on the race course.

I agree completely with you Doug. I like it when it is nasty
out there. It is an opportunity for good judgment (i.e. not
setting a spinnaker) might mean passing a string of broached
yachts. Judgment is part of the game.

Bart wrote:
I agree completely with you Doug. I like it when it is nasty
out there. It is an opportunity for good judgment (i.e. not
setting a spinnaker) might mean passing a string of broached
yachts. Judgment is part of the game.


It definitely should be, it's part of the good seamanship
that many non-racing sailors claim us racers lack.

Sailing in heavy air is also a different skill set, like
racing in light air. You have to tune in to different
actions, have different reflexes & priorities. That's one of
the great things about sailing, it's many sports rolled into
one.

I've been in races that were abandoned when the RC had to
leave station to go rescue boats. That's forgiveable, but to
have them simply call it off because "it's too windy" is
just lame.

In the races I've been in that were abandoned because of the
RC going to the rescue, I made it a point later on to give
some friendly coaching to the guys who needed rescuing...
never did mention that they cost me places (probably some
silverware).

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Bart wrote:
I agree completely with you Doug. I like it when it is nasty
out there. It is an opportunity for good judgment (i.e. not
setting a spinnaker) might mean passing a string of broached
yachts. Judgment is part of the game.


It definitely should be, it's part of the good seamanship that many
non-racing sailors claim us racers lack.

LOL. In a perfect world, maybe. In reality, I've seen things that would
grow hair on your chest--even yours. The racers I've known varied, just
like the general population, from brilliant to patently stupid. Judgment
goes out the window in all too many situations. One of the fastest Thistle
sailors I ever met--he was the NA and National Champion at least twice
each--had the misfortune of having absolutely no judgment at all, except
w/r/t racing tactics and sailing fast. He backed his gorgeous new boat into
a chain-link fence, dropped it from a hoist, and ran a tire on his trailer
over a rock which tipped the whole thing on its side. He also went out for
a daysail with his girlfriend one weekend and ended up being charged with
manslaughter when she drowned during a squall that was predicted hours
before. He was a fast fool.


Sailing in heavy air is also a different skill set, like racing in light
air. You have to tune in to different actions, have different reflexes &
priorities. That's one of the great things about sailing, it's many sports
rolled into one.

I've been in races that were abandoned when the RC had to leave station to
go rescue boats. That's forgiveable, but to have them simply call it off
because "it's too windy" is just lame.

I've seldom seen a race called because it was "too windy." I've seen them
called when a wall cloud was spotted trailing a squall line. I've seen them
called when the sky turned into an electrical extravaganza. And I've seen
them postponed when the knowledge of the members of the RC indicated that
things could go from bad to horrific. I've also seen them cancelled when
things were predicted to get nasty, but didn't. But I've almost never seen
one called because "it's too windy."


Max

Maxprop wrote:
LOL. In a perfect world, maybe. In reality, I've seen things that would
grow hair on your chest--even yours.

Nothing like a little ad hominem when you've been caught
practicing rank hypocrisy, eh?

And if you've seen things that would grow hair on my chest,
what's your excuse?


... The racers I've known varied, just
like the general population, from brilliant to patently stupid.

I've known relatively few that were really stupid.


.... Judgment
goes out the window in all too many situations.

Agreed.


I've been in races that were abandoned when the RC had to leave station to
go rescue boats. That's forgiveable, but to have them simply call it off
because "it's too windy" is just lame.


I've seldom seen a race called because it was "too windy."

In that case, your claim to have seen any chest-hair-growing
situations is doubtful. I've seen RC's keep races going in
30 ~ 35 knots on relatively open water... a good call IMHO,
although a flock of capsized & swamped boats in the starting
area made things more challenging. OTOH I have seen RCs
cancel because the RC boat's anchor kept dragging in 40+
gusts, not a problem because all the racers had gone in.



... I've seen them
called when a wall cloud was spotted trailing a squall line.


Sounds like a situation that could prejudice the
competition... or maybe not... depending on how it developed.


I've seen them
called when the sky turned into an electrical extravaganza.

Silly. I go in when we see lightning... have done so when
leading, in fact. It's a judgement call for the RC, since
they're the ones that will have to go around rescuing people
in a thunderstorm. But the RC should not presume to make
safety decisions for all skippers.


And I've seen
them postponed when the knowledge of the members of the RC indicated that
things could go from bad to horrific. I've also seen them cancelled when
things were predicted to get nasty, but didn't. But I've almost never seen
one called because "it's too windy."


Never, or "almost never"?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
LOL. In a perfect world, maybe. In reality, I've seen things that would
grow hair on your chest--even yours.

Nothing like a little ad hominem when you've been caught practicing rank
hypocrisy, eh?

Nothing hypocritical about it--I told you quite a while back that I've taken
off the glove and will verbally attack you personally whenever you do so to
me. It's clearly obvious you can't help yourself w/r/t personal attacks, so
I'm joining rather than fighting. It's so much easier and more fun this
way.


And if you've seen things that would grow hair on my chest, what's your
excuse?

I have plenty, thanks.

... The racers I've known varied, just like the general population, from
brilliant to patently stupid.

I've known relatively few that were really stupid.

Same here, but by your comment you admit that you've known *some* stupid
racers. Thanks for the verification.

.... Judgment goes out the window in all too many situations.

Agreed.


I've been in races that were abandoned when the RC had to leave station
to go rescue boats. That's forgiveable, but to have them simply call it
off because "it's too windy" is just lame.


I've seldom seen a race called because it was "too windy."

In that case, your claim to have seen any chest-hair-growing situations is
doubtful.

How does 60kt. gusts strike you? How about a squall that left 15' steep
waves in its wake? How about watching a 65' motor yacht (spectator) capsize
in high winds and waves while sailors struggled to stay afloat and alive?
My claims are valid, despite your doubt.

I've seen RC's keep races going in 30 ~ 35 knots on relatively open
water... a good call IMHO, although a flock of capsized & swamped boats in
the starting area made things more challenging. OTOH I have seen RCs
cancel because the RC boat's anchor kept dragging in 40+ gusts, not a
problem because all the racers had gone in.



... I've seen them called when a wall cloud was spotted trailing a squall
line.


Sounds like a situation that could prejudice the competition... or maybe
not... depending on how it developed.


I've seen them called when the sky turned into an electrical
extravaganza.

Silly. I go in when we see lightning... have done so when leading, in
fact. It's a judgement call for the RC, since they're the ones that will
have to go around rescuing people in a thunderstorm. But the RC should not
presume to make safety decisions for all skippers.

No. We wouldn't want any nannies out there, would we?

And I've seen them postponed when the knowledge of the members of the RC
indicated that things could go from bad to horrific. I've also seen them
cancelled when things were predicted to get nasty, but didn't. But I've
almost never seen one called because "it's too windy."


Never, or "almost never"?

Almost never. Snipe Nationals on the Gulf coast of Florida one year--can't
recall which. We had sailed three races beginning in 5kts and building to
20kts by the third, only to have the RC call the fourth because the wind was
gusting to 35. To their credit, the waves were getting unmanageable, and
the fourth was the last race of the day, easily postponed to the following
day.

Max

Bart wrote:
....

About racing sails... not sure if I've told this story before.

Some years ago, I had a no-longer-competitive Lightning jib
that I gave to my cousin for his keelboat. It was a good
size for a storm jib and that's what he wanted to use it
for. It stayed in a bag under his V-berth for some years,
then we met up for an autumn cruise.

The weather was windy, we had several days of 20+ knot winds
and one very memorable day of 45 knot winds & 15 foot
breakers. This was around Martha's Vineyard. Anyway, we
decided to rig the Lightning jib as a storm staysail. On a
broad reach, it did just fine, we flattened it as much as
possible by sheetng it to the rail instead of further
inboard. Then we had to change course to a close reach, and
the boat was a bit overpowered plus yawed more in the waves.

This sail was in quite good shape other than being just
enough blown out that a Lightning could not point as high as
other tuned-up racing Lightnings with it... poor sail
withstood about 20 minutes on this course, including perhaps
7 or 8 brief intervals of flogging.... then it just blew
apart. The panels seperated all at once then blew themselves
to shreds.

Lesson- regardless of the size or condition of the sail, get
something made of heavier cloth for a heavier boat!

DSK