Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please
 

The colregs talk about anchor lights in Rule 30. Sometimes it will say vessels
under 7 meters don't have to show the shapes described in parts (a) and (b).
Sometimes it will say lights and shapes. Parts a and b talk about lights and
shapes. So what's it really saying. Does a small sailboat less than seven meters
long have to show an anchor light or not.
Thanks for helping... http://www.navrules.com/index.html There's a nice
Nav Rules program for windows for free at the link.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please
 

Seems pretty straightforward...

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near
a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white
light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
The colregs talk about anchor lights in Rule 30. Sometimes it will
say vessels
under 7 meters don't have to show the shapes described in parts (a) and
(b).
Sometimes it will say lights and shapes. Parts a and b talk about lights
and
shapes. So what's it really saying. Does a small sailboat less than seven
meters
long have to show an anchor light or not.
Thanks for helping... http://www.navrules.com/index.html There's a
nice
Nav Rules program for windows for free at the link.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please
 

If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

Capt. JG wrote:
Seems pretty straightforward...

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near
a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white
light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule.

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...
The colregs talk about anchor lights in Rule 30.
Sometimes it will say vessels
under 7 meters don't have to show the shapes described in
parts (a) and (b).
Sometimes it will say lights and shapes. Parts a and b
talk about lights and
shapes. So what's it really saying. Does a small sailboat
less than seven meters
long have to show an anchor light or not.


Only at night.

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen





Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
overthinking the common sense application for what we a
cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
is pure semantic haggling....

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

There are no "versions" of it.

The official version is he
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...s/Rule3031.htm

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30
(or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round
white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length
shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a)
or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed
in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't
talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or
shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is
the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the
batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show
an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored
somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two
anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's
no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what
I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Capt. JG"
| There are no "versions" of it.
|
| The official version is he
| http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...s/Rule3031.htm

Depending where you download it from you get different versions.
Maybe it's a transcription problem or something. Thanks for the link.
I notice in the "official" version it doesn't mention anchorage and only
mentions shape. It says the shape in (a) and (b). How do you explain
there is no shape talked about in (b) only a light. Does shape mean
shape and light or just shape? If just shape how come it includes (b)
a light?
You think I'm dumb but maybe I see things that more experienced
people don't???

Cheers,
Ellen

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
reenews.net:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It
doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.

Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
shapes".

Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in
or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or
shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one
is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOINI

This is the correct one and is part of the 72 COLREGS


Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the
batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to
show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored
somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of the
anchorages listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere
a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then
there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh!
Do you see what I'm asking about

"Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions and
it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these Rules
are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that frequently
we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.

otn

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
CG, Sheriff?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never
had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an
anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area
have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little
boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Perhaps the use of the word "or" is the key in (a)?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. JG"
| There are no "versions" of it.
|
| The official version is he
| http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...s/Rule3031.htm

Depending where you download it from you get different versions.
Maybe it's a transcription problem or something. Thanks for the link.
I notice in the "official" version it doesn't mention anchorage and only
mentions shape. It says the shape in (a) and (b). How do you explain
there is no shape talked about in (b) only a light. Does shape mean
shape and light or just shape? If just shape how come it includes (b)
a light?
You think I'm dumb but maybe I see things that more experienced
people don't???

Cheers,
Ellen

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
| wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
| shapes".

Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They don't say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and shapes
definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in (b).

| "Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions and
| it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these Rules
| are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that frequently
| we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a harbor that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor light? It's not
"in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate."

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message ...
| Perhaps the use of the word "or" is the key in (a)?

Probably but why does it say the shape in (a) *and* (b) when there's no
shape in (b) only a light. BTW Mr. otn in another post says the official version
says *lights and shapes* but your official version just says *shapes*.

It's a mess. Somebody needs to make them all the same....

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
reenews.net:


Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They
don't say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and
shapes definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in
(b).

This newsreader is not good at linking, but looking at what J.G. had
shows the USCG link for Rules which I have and it definitely says "lights
and shape".... shapes aren't mentioned in (b)for the simple reason that
(b) is discussing the second light used by larger ships.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and
recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an
anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a
harbor that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor
light? It's not "in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other
vessels normally navigate."

From reading other post, it seems you are discussing a small boat
anchored/moored (which is it? to me anchored is one thing on a mooring is
another) and you're having problems with authorities.
Quite possibly they are looking at the Inland Rules 30 (g) and making
their requirement from this.

otn

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

I just went to the USCG site...... They have an error BG in that they just
say "shapes". If you download the full Rules this will be apparent.

otn

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
| wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
| shapes".

Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They don't
say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and shapes
definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in (b).

| "Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions
and
| it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these
Rules
| are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that
frequently
| we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and
recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an
anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a harbor
that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor light?
It's not
"in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally
navigate."

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Feel free to send feedback to the CG. They're pretty good about addressing
concerns like this.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
| Perhaps the use of the word "or" is the key in (a)?

Probably but why does it say the shape in (a) *and* (b) when there's
no
shape in (b) only a light. BTW Mr. otn in another post says the official
version
says *lights and shapes* but your official version just says *shapes*.

It's a mess. Somebody needs to make them all the same....

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

You're right! I suggest letting them know via the website. They'll fix it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
I just went to the USCG site...... They have an error BG in that they
just say "shapes". If you download the full Rules this will be apparent.

otn

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
| wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
| shapes".

Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They
don't say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and shapes
definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in (b).

| "Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions
and
| it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these
Rules
| are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that
frequently
| we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and
recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an
anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a harbor
that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor
light? It's not
"in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally
navigate."

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen




If it's on a mooring then it doesn't need a light. oftentimes local
authorities have no idea what marine law is about and some sheriff's
deputy is the one doing harbor patrol. Go to the main office with your
documentation and definitions and show them what's what...in a nice way,
od course.

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen
heh...well that explains it..maybe Florida is like Michigan and hires
poachers for their wildlife officers.....

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Can't local authorities add their on rules ontop of the Fed.
rules?

SBV
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message

reenews.ne
t...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even
then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who
are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC)
State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

G I'd take the time to correct them but I'm about to leave for the airport
to catch a flight for my yearly week ina and about Cape Cod/Hyannis....y'all
have fun

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
I just went to the USCG site...... They have an error BG in that they
just say "shapes". If you download the full Rules this will be apparent.

otn

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
| wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
| shapes".

Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They
don't say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and shapes
definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in (b).

| "Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions
and
| it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these
Rules
| are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that
frequently
| we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and
recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an
anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a harbor
that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor
light? It's not
"in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally
navigate."

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Sure can.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Can't local authorities add their on rules ontop of the Fed.
rules?

SBV
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message

reenews.ne
t...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even
then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who
are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC)
State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

so, my point is, she can't just waltz into the local station
and show them the colRegs, as they may have their own
regulations.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Sure can.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Can't local authorities add their on rules ontop of the
Fed.
rules?

SBV
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
in
message


reenews.ne
t...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps?
Even
then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who
are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers.
(FWC)
State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Sure she can. Then, they'll say, well sweetie, that's fine, but we have
these other regs...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
so, my point is, she can't just waltz into the local station
and show them the colRegs, as they may have their own
regulations.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Sure can.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Can't local authorities add their on rules ontop of the
Fed.
rules?

SBV
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
in
message


reenews.ne
t...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps?
Even
then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who
are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers.
(FWC)
State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

Scotty wrote:
so, my point is, she can't just waltz into the local station
and show them the colRegs, as they may have their own
regulations.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Sure can.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Can't local authorities add their on rules ontop of the
Fed.
rules?

SBV
"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
in
message
reenews.ne
t...
"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps?
Even
then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who
are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers.
(FWC)
State of Florida.
Cheers,
Ellen





Yes, she can. They would have to produce, in print, their set. And then
she(who are we fooling here...she...shesh...) could, if ticketed, ask to
have the CG's input...

Help me with Rule 30 of the colregs please (long)
 

As OTN pointed out, the phrase "lights or shapes" should be in the
text. I checked 33USC, otherwise known as "the law," and it looks
like the CG site is garbled.

The law is that boats anchored need a light. There are a few
exceptions. Designated "special anchorages" are one category, this
include many of the large mooring fields you find in New England
harbors. Small boats completely out of the way are another group.
This is no exception for being on a mooring (as Katy claimed) or not
being aboard.

However, if you're anchored or moored such that a neighbor could bump
into it should have a light. This regulation was completely ignored
in the past because of the impossibility of providing electricity.
However, now you can get an LED controlled by a solar switch and
powered by a small battery. There is a growing trend to require such
anchor lights. Frankly, it makes sense for areas that might have any
traffic.

You should check the make sure you're not in a special anchorage. The
chart would show it, and the Coast Pilot for your area should list all
anchorages. Also, you could do a bit or research to make sure you
understand the rule, and what devices there are that would work for
your boat, and then go to the "powers that be" and tell them you
understand all the issues, but that because your location is remote,
they should exercise the discretion that Congress, in their wisdom,
granted them, to give you an exemption.



Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen