Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and the ballast is
1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is 4550 or 6450?
thanks
RogueIT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"RogueIT" wrote in message
oups.com...
When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and the ballast is
1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is 4550 or 6450?
thanks
RogueIT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

4550 , the ballast is listed to give you an idea of
stability, or ''ballast to weight ratio''.

SBV





"RogueIT" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and the
ballast is
1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is
4550 or 6450?
thanks
RogueIT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

"RogueIT" wrote
| When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and the ballast is
| 1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is 4550 or 6450?


You should think the overall weight is both added together. And, that's
probably on the light side because that's *empty* weight.


Cheers,
Ellen

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

So displacement is the actual weight in pounds?
I quote from wikipedia
"Displacement is the actual total weight of the vessel." but I have
always tried to make things more complicated than they really are.

thanks,
RogueIT

Scotty wrote:
4550 , the ballast is listed to give you an idea of
stability, or ''ballast to weight ratio''.

SBV

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"RogueIT" wrote
| When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and
the ballast is
| 1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is
4550 or 6450?


You should think the overall weight is both added
together. And, that's
probably on the light side because that's *empty* weight.


You should think again.

Scotty

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

Yup, the heavier the boat ,including the ballast, the more
water it''displaces''.



"RogueIT" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
So displacement is the actual weight in pounds?
I quote from wikipedia
"Displacement is the actual total weight of the vessel."
but I have
always tried to make things more complicated than they
really are.

thanks,
RogueIT

Scotty wrote:
4550 , the ballast is listed to give you an idea of
stability, or ''ballast to weight ratio''.

SBV

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

"Scotty" wrote

| You should think again.


Oh heck. I "screwed the pooch" again. I just don't know what I was thinking.
I know displacement includes the ballast. So I was thinking to add the two. But,
they're already added together. That's the ballast and the rest of the boat is
already added together. So you were right and I was wrong. Make you happy?
But, don't think we're even. I've been right much more often than you are....

Cheers,
Ellen

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Jon?

You brought a third term into the question. The Tonnage term only
confuses the issue farther.

Jon, read the Subject Header; "Displacement Plus Ballast?" You are
buying a new Boat, and have a CG Captains Title. To get it Yacht
Registered, it will have to List its displacement weight.

Answer the question that was asked. Does Total Displacement Weight
Include keel weight or not. It sounds like a simple question, why must
"Tunnage" enter the discuss? Are you going to carry cargo in you
"Saber"? Was it designed to cargo carrying capabilities?

I do think, and I may be wrong, but once a boat is designed, the
calculated weight of the water that it displaces is what is used for
Documentation. That would include the keel as a displacement weight of
water and the weight of the engine as a displacement of the weight of
water as well as all fittings rudders, etc.

That is displacement "Weight", sometimes (Often) refer to a Volume.

That would mean the ballast weight would be included in Displacement
Weight.

Now, Rogue, this is an old man explanation and it may have edges that
can be pick at but IT HAS WORKED FOR ME,




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Scotty" wrote

| You should think again.


Oh heck. I "screwed the pooch" again. I just don't
know what I was thinking.
I know displacement includes the ballast. So I was
thinking to add the two. But,
they're already added together. That's the ballast and the
rest of the boat is
already added together. So you were right and I was wrong.
Make you happy?

No, but it does make me feel superior. Thanks.


But, don't think we're even. I've been right much more
often than you are....


You've also been wrong more times than me.

Scotty

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

It's already been answered. I provided more information. I've already bought
a used boat. I know the answer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Jon?

You brought a third term into the question. The Tonnage term only
confuses the issue farther.

Jon, read the Subject Header; "Displacement Plus Ballast?" You are
buying a new Boat, and have a CG Captains Title. To get it Yacht
Registered, it will have to List its displacement weight.

Answer the question that was asked. Does Total Displacement Weight
Include keel weight or not. It sounds like a simple question, why must
"Tunnage" enter the discuss? Are you going to carry cargo in you
"Saber"? Was it designed to cargo carrying capabilities?

I do think, and I may be wrong, but once a boat is designed, the
calculated weight of the water that it displaces is what is used for
Documentation. That would include the keel as a displacement weight of
water and the weight of the engine as a displacement of the weight of
water as well as all fittings rudders, etc.

That is displacement "Weight", sometimes (Often) refer to a Volume.

That would mean the ballast weight would be included in Displacement
Weight.

Now, Rogue, this is an old man explanation and it may have edges that
can be pick at but IT HAS WORKED FOR ME,




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

I didn't realize that was possible... :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Scotty" wrote

| You should think again.


Oh heck. I "screwed the pooch" again. I just don't
know what I was thinking.
I know displacement includes the ballast. So I was
thinking to add the two. But,
they're already added together. That's the ballast and the
rest of the boat is
already added together. So you were right and I was wrong.
Make you happy?

No, but it does make me feel superior. Thanks.


But, don't think we're even. I've been right much more
often than you are....


You've also been wrong more times than me.

Scotty

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

Scotty wrote:
4550 , the ballast is listed to give you an idea of
stability, or ''ballast to weight ratio''.

SBV

Good answer Scotty.

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message news:
Displacement weight, and displacement volume are two diferent things,
Thom.

The "displacement" used for documenting a vessel has to do with freight
carrying
ability, and is determined by computations based on the measured
dimensions of
the vessel, not the displacement weight of the vessel. Some apendages may
not be
counted in the measurements, but in my case, because of the way my boat is
constructed, the entire keel is legally counted as part of one depth
measurement, although it skews the result rather fantastically. The
measurements
are supposed to represent the load carrying capacity of the vessel. The
regulations were created for commercial vessels, and don't do a very good
job of
taking pleasure sailboats into account, so most fin keeled sailboats over
about
25 feet in length qualify under the rules for minimum displacement. I
think they
have to measure to at least 5 tons, or they cannot be documented.

My boat, as an example, weighs about 4500 pounds (2.25 tons), but the
documentation lists it as 6 gross tons, and 6 net tons displacement.

CWM

I don't know if in the sailboat world the term "displacement" has been
"*******ized", but in the commercial vessel world, "displacement" is a
weight and has nothing to do with volume.

Light ship: weight of vessel minus stores, cargo, ballast, fuel, water.
Deadweight tonnage: weight of cargo, stores, ballast, fuel, water vessel is
or can carry.
Displacement tonnage: Add Lightship and deadweight tonnage together to get
actual weight of vessel at any given time.

Gross and net tonnage are volume tonnages and have nothing to do with
weights.

otn

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Gross and net tonnage are volume tonnages and have nothing to do with
| weights.


My teacher told us way back in the old days of wind shipping they had
"tuns". These were like big barrels or casks. If ten could fit inside the cargo
hold the ship was a ten-tuner. Deck cargo didn't count. Later it got spelled "ton"
and that's were the confusion comes from. It started out being a volume thing.
If the tuns were filled with gold they'd be much heavier than filled with silk
cloth.


Cheers,
Ellen

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Thanks Ellen (?)

That was a help and I shouldn't have to explain Volume/Weight. Now I'm
waiting the question "Long ton/Std ton" You're allowed to answer that
one also.

(Neal, how about giving me your e-mail off group?)




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

Displacement Plus Ballest ?
 

There are two different kinds of ballast being referred to in this thread.
In a modern sailing yacht the ballast is fixed as part of a vessel and
cannot be eliminated from its displacement tonnage. However, in commercial
vessels and some older types of yacht the ballast is inside and can
therefore be removed, giving the vessel a reduced displacement. Many such
vessels, having discharged cargo and lacking further cargo, must take on
ballast in order to be seaworthy to go on to their next destination.
"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"RogueIT" wrote
| When I see that a boat has a Displacement of 4550 and
the ballast is
| 1900, should I think the overall weight of the boat is
4550 or 6450?


You should think the overall weight is both added
together. And, that's
probably on the light side because that's *empty* weight.


You should think again.

Scotty

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

OK Edgar,

I'll ask the question. On internal ballast; are you talking about the
weight of the ballast itself or are you talking about the weight of the
water that the "Internal Ballast" caused to be DISPLACED.

Also; What are you referring to when you say " Displacement 'tonnage"
What are you weighing? Ballast or displaced water? Displacement Tunnage
(correct spelling) is a Volume measurement.

As Ellen stated, Displacement "Tonnage" should be "Tunnage" a Volume
measurement. Hull Displacement is the weight of the water displaced by
the hull
There are two DIFFERENT DISPLACEMENTS mistakenly being described by a
single term




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

No Thom. Displacement tunnage/tonnage is NOT a volume measurement..... it is
a weight.

otn

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
OK Edgar,

I'll ask the question. On internal ballast; are you talking about the
weight of the ballast itself or are you talking about the weight of the
water that the "Internal Ballast" caused to be DISPLACED.


Also; What are you referring to when you say " Displacement 'tonnage"
What are you weighing? Ballast or displaced water? Displacement Tunnage
(correct spelling) is a Volume measurement.

As Ellen stated, Displacement "Tonnage" should be "Tunnage" a Volume
measurement. Hull Displacement is the weight of the water displaced by
the hull
There are two DIFFERENT DISPLACEMENTS mistakenly being described by a
single term




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ILLDRINKTOTHAT

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

The confusion is a simple old versus new spelling issue. If we look at a
number of text on who called what what, we'll find some conflicting info.
Your basic statement regarding "cask" is correct regarding weight versus
volume.
BTW, the statement which was still taught in my day for cask was "bung up
and bilge free".

otn

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Gross and net tonnage are volume tonnages and have nothing to do with
| weights.


My teacher told us way back in the old days of wind shipping they had
"tuns". These were like big barrels or casks. If ten could fit inside the
cargo
hold the ship was a ten-tuner. Deck cargo didn't count. Later it got
spelled "ton"
and that's were the confusion comes from. It started out being a volume
thing.
If the tuns were filled with gold they'd be much heavier than filled with
silk
cloth.


Cheers,
Ellen

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
OK Edgar,

I'll ask the question. On internal ballast; are you talking about the
weight of the ballast itself or are you talking about the weight of the
water that the "Internal Ballast" caused to be DISPLACED.

They are the same. Add a ton of ballast and you displace a ton of water as
the boat sinks down to a new draft

Also; What are you referring to when you say " Displacement 'tonnage"
What are you weighing? Ballast or displaced water?

Following from my answer above I am talking about the weight of displaced
water which is equally the weight of the boat. I could have left out the
word 'tonnage' which seems to cause confusion.

Displacement Tunnage
(correct spelling) is a Volume measurement.

As to the spelling, well, I am an Englishman despite living now in Norway
and that is how we spell 'tonnage'. In English a 'tun' is a large wine cask
or vat holding 252 (English!) gallons. Not often seen outside the winery
itself

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Edgar wrote:
..... In English a 'tun' is a large wine cask
or vat holding 252 (English!) gallons. Not often seen outside the winery
itself



yeah, that's a darn shame too

DSK

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Have one of those at home. Tried to sell it in yard
sales several times. It is too big. No one wants it.
Ours is made from very dark green glass. The size
is about right.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Edgar wrote:
..... In English a 'tun' is a large wine cask
or vat holding 252 (English!) gallons. Not often seen outside the winery
itself



yeah, that's a darn shame too

DSK

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Bart Senior wrote:

Have one of those at home. Tried to sell it in yard
sales several times. It is too big. No one wants it.
Ours is made from very dark green glass. The size
is about right.


If it was full of wine you could sell it!

Or have a great party.

Also makes a great containment device for unruly kids.

DSK

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

I just went and looked at it. It is much smaller than I remembered.
Of course when I was little it was seemed much bigger. I'm guessing
it's only 15-20 gallons--it is hard to judge because of the odd shape.

I remember I could not pick it up when I was little and I managed to
pick up it with two fingers just now. I can encircle it with my arms and
clasp one hand with the other. The spout is about knee height with the
top above my knee and the necked down area just below my knee..

I sent you a text message with a picture Doug. It is sitting on a
piano stool next to a piano to give you an idea of the size.

If it was full of wine, it would take a big party to empty it.

"DSK" wrote
Bart Senior wrote:

Have one of those at home. Tried to sell it in yard
sales several times. It is too big. No one wants it.
Ours is made from very dark green glass. The size
is about right.


If it was full of wine you could sell it!

Or have a great party.

Also makes a great containment device for unruly kids.

DSK

Displacement Plus Ballast ?
 

Bart Senior wrote:
I sent you a text message with a picture Doug. It is sitting on a
piano stool next to a piano to give you an idea of the size.


Got it, thanks. That does look like a pretty big jug. Of
course, i don't know exactly how big your piano is ;)



If it was full of wine, it would take a big party to empty it.


Yes, but lots of folks would probably come over & help.

DSK