My seamanship question #3
 

You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north. The east wind is
right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's headed right at
your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the west and you change course to the
east.
Did you act the way the colregs tell you to?

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north. The east wind is
right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's headed right at
your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the west and you change course to the
east.
Did you act the way the colregs tell you to?



No. ColRegs clearly state that 180# men are not allowed in
Optimist prams.

DSK

My seamanship question #3
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north. The east wind is
right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's headed right at
your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the west and you change course to the
east.
Did you act the way the colregs tell you to?

Cheers,
Ellen

The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.

My seamanship question #3
 

"DSK" wrote

| No. ColRegs clearly state that 180# men are not allowed in
| Optimist prams.


:-(
OK, sorry. Change "you" to "a petite young woman of 105 pounds..."

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Jeff" wrote
| The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.


Wrong Jeff! There's definitely at least one rule covering it.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram.
You're going north. The east wind is
right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a
hull and he's headed right at
your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the west
and you change course to the
east.
Did you act the way the colregs tell you to?


The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking order, 2nd
to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.

Scotty

My seamanship question #3
 

"Scotty" wrote
| The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking order, 2nd
| to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.



Can't you say something just once that makes sense?


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Scotty" wrote
| The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking order,
2nd
| to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.



Can't you say something just once that makes sense?


To you? Prolly knot.

SV

My seamanship question #3
 

"Scotty" wrote
| The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking order,
2nd
| to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.



"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
Can't you say something just once that makes sense?


Makes perfect sense to anybody that knows the ASA
anti-collision rules.



Scotty wrote:
To you? Prolly knot.


Aww, give her a break. At least she apologized for dissing
Ol' Thom, sort of.

DSK

My seamanship question #3
 

DSK wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going
north. The east wind is right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and
he's headed right at your bow (he's going south). He changes course to
the west and you change course to the east. Did you act the way
the colregs tell you to?



No. ColRegs clearly state that 180# men are not allowed in Optimist prams.

DSK

Most people (under the age of 8) that would sail an Optimist pram
wouldn't have the reading level to read ColRegs...they'd just be
grateful that they didn't do a tippy....

My seamanship question #3
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.


Wrong Jeff! There's definitely at least one rule covering it.

Cheers,
Ellen

Don't kill innocent chilfren trying to learn how to sail?

My seamanship question #3
 

DSK wrote:
"Scotty" wrote
| The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking order,
2nd
| to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.



"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
Can't you say something just once that makes sense?


Makes perfect sense to anybody that knows the ASA anti-collision rules.



Scotty wrote:
To you? Prolly knot.


Aww, give her a break. At least she apologized for dissing Ol' Thom,
sort of.

DSK


Made sense to me, too...knew exactly where he was coming from.

My seamanship question #3
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.


Wrong Jeff! There's definitely at least one rule covering it.

Cheers,
Ellen
Well, of course they both acted to avoid the collision, but whether to
turn left or right is not in the rules. The Opti was standon, but the
way you told it the Hobie bore off so the Opti was free to do
whatever. You could claim that the Opti should have held its course,
but if that's what you were looking for you should have worded it
differently.

My seamanship question #3
 

Since there's no indication of a collision from the text, I'd agree. There's
nothing wrong or improper in changing course as long as you don't make the
situation worse.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north.
The east wind is right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's
headed right at your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the
west and you change course to the east. Did you act the way the colregs
tell you to?

Cheers,
Ellen

The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.

My seamanship question #3
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" wrote
| The Optimist Pram is at the bottom of the pecking
order,
2nd
| to last, just above Yellow Coronado 27'.



"Ellen MacArthur" wrote
Can't you say something just once that makes sense?


Makes perfect sense to anybody that knows the ASA
anti-collision rules.



Scotty wrote:
To you? Prolly knot.


Aww, give her a break. At least she apologized for dissing
Ol' Thom, sort of.


This is as nice as I can be.

SBV

My seamanship question #3
 

You were on starboard tack and had right of way. You only needed to change
your course if you thouht a collision was imminent.

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north.
The east wind is
right on your starboard beam.
Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's
headed right at
your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the west and you change
course to the
east.
Did you act the way the colregs tell you to?

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Jeff" wrote
| You could claim that the Opti should have held its course,
| but if that's what you were looking for you should have worded it
| differently.

I do claim the Optimist should have remained on course. The sailing rules
require it to stay on course. That's what stand on means. It means to stay on
the same course and speed. It was on starboard tack.
My wording was as clear as I could make it. It was clear enough for any
sensible person. You can nitpik anything if you've a mind to...

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Capt. JG" wrote
| Since there's no indication of a collision from the text, I'd agree. There's
| nothing wrong or improper in changing course as long as you don't make the
| situation worse.

There's definitely something wrong with the Optimist changing course. According
to the sailing rules it's required to hold to its course. It's not supposed to change
course unless the Hobie Cat doesn't and a collision is likely or even possible.
How can you say there's no incidation of a collision from the text? I said the
Hobie Cat was heading straight for the bow of the Optimist.
Both sailboats turning is following the motor boat rule and sailboats are supposed
to follow the sailing rules.

Cheers,
Ellen

|
| --
| "j" ganz @@
| www.sailnow.com
|
| "Jeff" wrote in message
| ...
| Ellen MacArthur wrote:
| You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going north.
| The east wind is right on your starboard beam.
| Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and he's
| headed right at your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the
| west and you change course to the east. Did you act the way the colregs
| tell you to?
|
| Cheers,
| Ellen
|
| The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.
|
|

My seamanship question #3
 

"Edgar" wrote
| You were on starboard tack and had right of way. You only needed to change
| your course if you thouht a collision was imminent.



Bingo! Somebody give Edgar a prize for clear thinking....

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| Since there's no indication of a collision from the
text, I'd agree. There's
| nothing wrong or improper in changing course as long as
you don't make the
| situation worse.

There's definitely something wrong with the Optimist
changing course. According
to the sailing rules it's required to hold to its course.


Stand on vessel is assureadly allowed to alter course if it
gives the burdened vessel more room.




How can you say there's no incidation of a collision
from the text? I said the
Hobie Cat was heading straight for the bow of the
Optimist.


''Heading straight for the bow'' does not necessarily mean a
collision is immanent.



Both sailboats turning is following the motor boat
rule and sailboats are supposed
to follow the sailing rules.



Are you getting this out of the 'Sailing For Dummies' book?

Keep reading!

Scotty

My seamanship question #3
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| You could claim that the Opti should have held its course,
| but if that's what you were looking for you should have worded it
| differently.

I do claim the Optimist should have remained on course. The sailing rules
require it to stay on course. That's what stand on means. It means to stay on
the same course and speed. It was on starboard tack.
My wording was as clear as I could make it. It was clear enough for any
sensible person. You can nitpik anything if you've a mind to...

Cheers,
Ellen

Perhaps a bit of nitpicking, but if that's "as clear as you can make
it" you don't have very good command of the language. If the boats
were a certain distance apart, then the Opti is under no obligation to
hold course. Also, if they are close and "in extremis" the the Opti
must act to avoid collision. The rewording of the '72 rules also says
the standon vessel can alter course earlier if it thinks the giveway
vessel in not taking appropriate action. Thus, there's actually a
relatively small window (if any!) where you could claim the opti
*must* hold its course. Further, by saying the cat bore off and the
opti headed up, you open the possibility that the cat bore off first.
If I was in the opti I would probably head up the instant I sensed
the cat was bearing off.

Unless you can state the problem so that it clear you're talking about
the standon obligation, you should pick a different scenario.

My seamanship question #3
 

"Scotty" wrote
| Stand on vessel is assureadly allowed to alter course if it
| gives the burdened vessel more room.

It's not allowed to alter course. The rule says it should hold its
course and speed till the close quarters situation goes away. If boats
go around willy-nilly altering course when they shouldn't they add confusion
and cause accidents...

| ''Heading straight for the bow'' does not necessarily mean a
| collision is immanent.

One boat was sailing 180 degrees and the other was sailing 360.
When headed straight for the bow on these courses a collision is
almost a sure thing.

| Are you getting this out of the 'Sailing For Dummies' book?

I'm getting it out of the colregs. Maybe you should read 'em too.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Jeff" wrote
| Unless you can state the problem so that it clear you're talking about
| the standon obligation, you should pick a different scenario.

I thought it was pretty clear. I gave courses and speeds. You guys just like to imagine complications that
don't exist. It was a head-on situation just like in the rules. I was making a point. Head-on for sailboats is not
the same as head-on for motor powered boats.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

There is no requirement for the Opti to hold course. Sorry, but from what
you described that's a fact.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote
| Unless you can state the problem so that it clear you're talking about
| the standon obligation, you should pick a different scenario.

I thought it was pretty clear. I gave courses and speeds. You guys
just like to imagine complications that
don't exist. It was a head-on situation just like in the rules. I was
making a point. Head-on for sailboats is not
the same as head-on for motor powered boats.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

Well, let's see. I'm sailing on the SF bay. Across the bay, I see a sailboat
on a port tack heading toward my bow. It's approximately 5 miles away. Am I
required to hold my course? That's how I can say it. You gave no indication
of distance, which is critical factor.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| Since there's no indication of a collision from the text, I'd agree.
There's
| nothing wrong or improper in changing course as long as you don't make
the
| situation worse.

There's definitely something wrong with the Optimist changing course.
According
to the sailing rules it's required to hold to its course. It's not
supposed to change
course unless the Hobie Cat doesn't and a collision is likely or even
possible.
How can you say there's no incidation of a collision from the text? I
said the
Hobie Cat was heading straight for the bow of the Optimist.
Both sailboats turning is following the motor boat rule and sailboats
are supposed
to follow the sailing rules.

Cheers,
Ellen

|
| --
| "j" ganz @@
| www.sailnow.com
|
| "Jeff" wrote in message
| ...
| Ellen MacArthur wrote:
| You go sailing (not racing) in an Optimist pram. You're going
north.
| The east wind is right on your starboard beam.
| Up ahead you see a Hobie Cat 14 sailing fast flying a hull and
he's
| headed right at your bow (he's going south). He changes course to the
| west and you change course to the east. Did you act the way the
colregs
| tell you to?
|
| Cheers,
| Ellen
|
| The Colregs give no particular guidance on this.
|
|

My seamanship question #3
 

No. It's not a sure thing. How about changes in current, depending on where
you are on the body of water. Current moves faster in some place than in
others at the same time. Deep vs. shallow for example. Try again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Scotty" wrote
| Stand on vessel is assureadly allowed to alter course if it
| gives the burdened vessel more room.

It's not allowed to alter course. The rule says it should hold its
course and speed till the close quarters situation goes away. If boats
go around willy-nilly altering course when they shouldn't they add
confusion
and cause accidents...

| ''Heading straight for the bow'' does not necessarily mean a
| collision is immanent.

One boat was sailing 180 degrees and the other was sailing 360.
When headed straight for the bow on these courses a collision is
almost a sure thing.

| Are you getting this out of the 'Sailing For Dummies' book?

I'm getting it out of the colregs. Maybe you should read 'em too.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #3
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Cheers,
Ellen


Has Bart had a sex change?


Regards


Donal
--

My seamanship question #3
 

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message
reenews.ne
t...

"Scotty" wrote
| Stand on vessel is assureadly allowed to alter course if
it
| gives the burdened vessel more room.

It's not allowed to alter course. The rule says it
should hold its
course and speed till the close quarters situation goes
away. If boats
go around willy-nilly altering course when they shouldn't
they add confusion
and cause accidents...


check again



| ''Heading straight for the bow'' does not necessarily
mean a
| collision is immanent.

One boat was sailing 180 degrees and the other was
sailing 360.
When headed straight for the bow on these courses a
collision is
almost a sure thing.

''almost''. Backing down are we?



| Are you getting this out of the 'Sailing For Dummies'
book?

I'm getting it out of the colregs. Maybe you should
read 'em too.


Why? I'm not sailing.

SBV

My seamanship question #3
 

"Donal" wrote in message
...



Has Bart had sex ?


Not for a couple of months.

:o

My seamanship question #3
 

"Krusty Morgan" stupidly wrote ..

Has Bart had sex ?


Not for a couple of months.


And even that time it was with me.

CWM

So, it doesn't count

My seamanship question #3
 

Another one? :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
Cheers,
Ellen


Has Bart had a sex change?


Regards


Donal
--