Jeff wrote:
Capt. Scumbalino wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Because the course difference is less then 67.5 degrees, the qualifies
as an overtaking situation. According to Rule 14,
"Notwithstanding anything contained in Rules 4 through 18, any
vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel
being overtaken."

My understanding is that it isn't about differences in course, per-se,
but
must also include the bearing from the vessel that is being caught, to
the
vessel that is catching.


Yes, you are correct. The method I used only works if they are going
approximately the same speed. However, without doing the calculation, I
would think that the overtaking vessel is going *much* faster if this is
technically a crossing situation. I'll have to work this out on a
calculator.

That brings up an interesting question: If a boat is going much faster
than another, so much so that its impossible for the slower to avoid
collision, which rule applies? Rule 17(b) clearly does, if action by
the giveway vessel alone is not enough to avoid collision. But also
Rule is important, because of the "special circumstances" and
"limitations of the vessels."

And if a collision occurred, how much liability gets assessed on the
giveway vessel?

This situation happens frequently when sport fishing boats are headed
out at 35 knots, crossing cruising boats powering at 6 knots.

OOOPS Again!! As soon as I drew this out I realized I had it
backwards. If the speeds are identical, then it could be converging
situation, where the heading is not important but the bearing
obviously is. However, the question specified "catching up" which
would seem to rule out converging.

Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being overtaken, in this scenario, that's
pretty much the end of the story. Speed isn't an issue.

because if the speeds were such one could conceivably pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| May never be needed...if their speeds are such that one bypasses the
| other completely....

Good try but I said if it looks like they're gonna hit each other. You have one
more guess...

Cheers,
Ellen



they both have the burden of avoiding a collision...;ppls ;ole os like
almost preganat...there is no such thing...and speed does make a
diference because it is a variable factor....

Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:

"The one catching up is going on a course of 180 degrees" If they are
to converge "the direction from the beam of the vessel being
overtaken" must be less than 28 degrees.

Whether or not they converge is a function of their current positions, their
courses and their speeds. Have a look at my diagram linked to elsewhere. If
the red boat is doing 1kt, and the green one 100kts, then the green one will
be past the red one - will pass over the red boat's projected course - long
before the red boat gets to the same point.

The direction from the beam has nothing to do with convergence, but is a
means of defining whether the situation is an overtaking one.


--
Capt Scumbalino

Joe wrote:

Her wording has a very key phrase "Catching up with" this is an
overtaking situation not a crossing situation, therefore we know the
vessel is 22.5 degrees abaft the beam or she would have said they were
meeting or crossing IMO.

Rule 13 makes no reference to "catching".


--
Capt Scumbalino

Capt. Scumbalino wrote:
Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:

"The one catching up is going on a course of 180 degrees" If they are
to converge "the direction from the beam of the vessel being
overtaken" must be less than 28 degrees.

Whether or not they converge is a function of their current positions, their
courses and their speeds. Have a look at my diagram linked to elsewhere. If
the red boat is doing 1kt, and the green one 100kts, then the green one will
be past the red one - will pass over the red boat's projected course - long
before the red boat gets to the same point.

The direction from the beam has nothing to do with convergence, but is a
means of defining whether the situation is an overtaking one.


Ha....speed....said it was a variable....

"Joe" wrote -way vessel.
|
| You said 180 was "overtaking" the 280 vessel.

I did NOT say that. Look again, Joe. I said one sailboat was
catching up to the other. Since everybody seems clueless, I'll
give the answer. It's a crossing situation. Subtract the angles.
It has to be within a 22 and 1/2 degree angle of the centerline
to be overtaking. 208-180 = 28 degrees. Not overtaking.
Pay attention, Joe.

In a crossing situation the sailboat to windward must avoid the
other sailboat since they're both on the starboard tack.

This is FUN!

Cheers,
Ellen

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote

| In lieu of that, I would say that the windward boat has to keep clear.

Right, the windward boat must stay clear. Both are on the starboard
tack and it's not overtaking by definition. It's a crossing situation.

Cheers,
Ellen

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On 12 Sep 2006 15:41:44 -0700, "Joe" wrote:

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote

| That's not worth an ASA point.


How come? You got it wrong too when in your other post you talked about one
of the boats being overtaken.

I see you people need a hint: Subtract the angles. Does the result fit the
definition of overtake?

Cheers,
Ellen
The vessel that is overtaking another vessel is the give-way vessel.

You said 180 was "overtaking" the 280 vessel.
End of story. Nothing else matters.

Joe

If the vessels have screwed the pooch to the point where they are truly about to
collide, it is the duty of both to do whatever is needed to avoid a collision.


CWM

I said that.....

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote:
snip boring crap from a cedar bucket

This is FUN!

This is boring, Bart Senorita!

LP