Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.
For what it's worth, I work with several surveyors, 2 are sailboat
specialists (pretty much all they do) and all agree the Seaward is one
of the better built small cruising boats. We've had a few come through
here for work and they are damn solid.
Sorry it's not working out, but I think if you talk things over a bit,
you can save the deal. The owner keeping fenders and lines is not the
end of the world. The other aspects of the deal can be worked out
assuming you are certain his paperwork is real and not some sort of
scam. Every now and again someone sells a boat that isn't theirs.


RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Rob,
Thanks for your advice.

There are posters here I never see because they are in my ****-can
file. Others I read all the time, like you and Doug. I laugh a lot and
skim much of the trolling, but recognize that both you and Doug offer
much to this group. So - what I concluded was that the Seaward is a
superior boat, as you've stated, and I want one! However, upon close
inspection, I also noted some of the things that Doug was referring to.
For example, I noted that the supports for the shrouds, which are made
of very heavy stainless hardware, pass through the cabin via a hole
that appears to just be hacked through the fiberglass, and then
caulked. As a water tight cabin, that doesn't cut it. And as a result
of what appears to be an after-thought, the boat shows evidence of some
major leaks in the cabin, which travelled around, as water leaks do. I
also noted that the Captain's seat across the stern is an arch-shaped
piece of reinforced fiberglass, and it has been broken in two places.
The current owner is much lighter than I, so in the back of my mind I
was fabricating a new, hinged seat. I can deal with these issues, but
my point is that both you and Doug are making truthful and accurate
statements and I took both sets of advice to the inspection with me. It
was very helpful and I thank you both!

I'm also considering a new boat, although when I contacted Seaward to
ask for warranty information on the 2004, their agent wrote back to me
"don't take offense, but you didn't buy the Seaward from us, and we
don't have gobs of time to bring you up to speed on it. - if you have
questions, the seller will have to answer them." That's some factory
support, huh? That one statement made me feel like I wouldn't rush to
give them new business - it's the kind of off-handed remark that just
may have cost them a
$90K sale. For that kind of cash, Precision will build me a 28 model.

Back to the used boat: even though we're talking a fair sum of cash,
the current owner and I kept it rather informal and on a gentleman's
level. However, I realized as we came closer to making the transaction,
that all protection was in the current owner's favor. His bank (loan)
is taking care of their asses but I have no one but myself to cover me.
Hand me a title and I'll hand over the cash is what I had in mind. I
feel as though I'd need to hire an advisor to make this work now.

The lines and fenders are more of an indicator to me than a real
problem. Hell, I threw in life preservers, spare parts, grills, and
every other nicety I could in order to sweeten the deal when I sold.
This didn't kill the deal by itself, but it gave me a reference point
regarding the owner's mindset.
I know there are plenty of nice boats out there for a guy with cash and
a desire to sail, so I'm walking away unless the current owner calls
and fixes things. If it were me, I'd get a bridge loan, and with title
in hand, I'd make a deal.
Thanks again Rob
Scout

Capt. Rob wrote:
Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.
For what it's worth, I work with several surveyors, 2 are sailboat
specialists (pretty much all they do) and all agree the Seaward is one
of the better built small cruising boats. We've had a few come through
here for work and they are damn solid.
Sorry it's not working out, but I think if you talk things over a bit,
you can save the deal. The owner keeping fenders and lines is not the
end of the world. The other aspects of the deal can be worked out
assuming you are certain his paperwork is real and not some sort of
scam. Every now and again someone sells a boat that isn't theirs.


RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.

CWM
Thanks Charlie,
Very interesting reading. The responders seem to feel I am somehow
planning something illegal or immoral by handing over cash (certified
check from Wachovia) and expecting a title. I also note that the seller
fails to explain that none of these things (the lien, and the items he
is keeping) were mentioned to me during the inspection, only later,
after I had made the deposit and wanted to arrange a swap date. I
believe the seller is an honest guy, as I am, but we are both
know-nothings with the legal stuff. In spite of his honest intentions,
if he messes up I don't want to pay for the mistake. I'd rather pay a
broker's fee, as I did with my last purchase, so everything is above
board and lega. It's fine to take the sell-it-yourself approach, but
the seller should be prepared to do it correctly, which begins with a
total and honest disclosure to the prospective buyer. I still believe
he means well, but we are both dabbling in an area where professional
help may be called for. Even if I felt safe with the deal, how many
times should I have to make the 8 hour drive to close this deal?
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout


Too bad Scout.

The '04 located in the panhandle is still listed on the Seaward
brokerage site. A far piece away from you, but available. Read in
post below where you were not knocked out by their customer service.
Tell you the truth, I emailed them asking for some clarification of
displacement info on the engine options, and they never returned my
email. But I made their database because they now email me every time
a boat comes in brokerage.

At any rate if it is still there in October, I will possibly drop by
and look at it as I'm going to be in the area. As mentioned, don't
think it is right for me, but if you still have interest, will give
you my impression if you haven't moved on.

The listed boat may be the one I saw in St. Joe's Bay last spring.
Looked great under sail.

Frank

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Damn! That sucks.
Were those items listed in his advertisement? All the
articles on selling/buying a boat advise to make crystal
clear what goes and what stays.

Mmmm, I bet a broker could tell you about the bank issue.
Too bad there isn't a real one here.

Scotty




"Scout" wrote in message
...
It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two
significant occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he
was keeping the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because
he needs them for his "next boat." It just seemed petty. I
drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt that that would
have been a good time to let me know which things I was
inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real
big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for
your asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let
the buyer know that you didn't mean to imply that the
necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his
loan on the boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the
lien and produce the title. I'm not big on finance but it
didn't feel right to be in limbo for 2 weeks. Can I sail the
boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially giving the
current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an
honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't
have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it
work comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the
physical miles between us and the small details will surely
become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested
to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's
comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.

That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you use
this to take a jab at Doug.

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

If it's mostly the time issue, you can have Wachovia
transfer the funds electronically.
I use , and like, their electronic transfer service to pay
bills.

SV

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you use
this to take a jab at Doug.



Scotty, take a pill. I wanted to hear what Scout had found and he
honestly told us. Please don't turn every thread into a troll.

Scout, if you really like the boat, don't give up. I will add this
though: The response you got from Seaward is so awful and dumb, I'd
send it back to them and let them know you'd NEVER buy a new boat from
them. They should offer SOME support for thier boats no matter who the
owner is. When I bought the Beneteau they were very helpful in giving
me specs, part info and some history on my exact hull #.
Good luck...I hope it works out.


RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you
use
this to take a jab at Doug.



Scotty, take a pill. I wanted to hear what Scout had found
and he
honestly told us. Please don't turn every thread into a
troll.


too late, you swallowed the hook.

SV

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Sorry to hear this isn't going smoothly ...

A few thoughts:
Don't worry about the anchors, if you're like me you have your own
thoughts and would likely replace them. Fenders also you might be
replaced, I wouldn't be happy rubbing someone else grunge into my boat
- OTOH it seems rather petty, kind of like a renter taking everything
that isn't nailed down when leaving.

Last time around, I kept all my portable nav instruments, tools, and
cooking utensils. All sailing gear, including things that I had to
replace like a riding sail, were left behind.

I'm surprised at how often manufacturers fail to realize that they are
being judged for future business when they blow off inquiries. We
went to the Newport show in '94 to pick our next boat. A Nonsuch 36
was on the short list and Nonsuch was there with the team that had
taken over from Hinterhoeller. I asked them (VP of Sales, I think) if
there was anyway to upgrade the double line reefing on my N30 to the
new single line system, and they blew me off with a curt "Yea, buy a
new boat." My thought was "**** you too, there's no chance I'll buy a
boat from you," and it was no surprise that no one else bought from
them and the company was gone in a few years.

As for the current deal, its the seller's responsibility to deliver a
boat free of liens. You should not have to put down serious money
until you can legitimately insure the boat. When we bought the PDQ
there was an anxious moment after we had handed over the big check,
because the 800 number for Boat/US would not work with the Canadian
phone system! Of course, this was sorted out in an hour and seemed
like it was a meaningless worry, but an odd thing happened later:
After paying for the boat we played with it for a few days and then
left it in Canada. When we came back in a few weeks we were told not
to be concerned as we walked down the dock because our boat had not
been damaged by the explosion! Indeed, a powerboat 3 slips over had
blown up after returning from the fuel dock and plugging in to the
shore power. Our boat was unaffected, but the cat owned by the owner
of PDQ did suffer cosmetic damage. Had things gone a bit differently,
we could have been in that slip, uninsured.

This deal can probably be salvaged - it sounds like a communication
problem between the seller and the seller's bank. They deal with
house closings every day, this shouldn't be any more complicated.


Scout wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for your advice.

There are posters here I never see because they are in my ****-can
file. Others I read all the time, like you and Doug. I laugh a lot and
skim much of the trolling, but recognize that both you and Doug offer
much to this group. So - what I concluded was that the Seaward is a
superior boat, as you've stated, and I want one! However, upon close
inspection, I also noted some of the things that Doug was referring to.
For example, I noted that the supports for the shrouds, which are made
of very heavy stainless hardware, pass through the cabin via a hole
that appears to just be hacked through the fiberglass, and then
caulked. As a water tight cabin, that doesn't cut it. And as a result
of what appears to be an after-thought, the boat shows evidence of some
major leaks in the cabin, which travelled around, as water leaks do. I
also noted that the Captain's seat across the stern is an arch-shaped
piece of reinforced fiberglass, and it has been broken in two places.
The current owner is much lighter than I, so in the back of my mind I
was fabricating a new, hinged seat. I can deal with these issues, but
my point is that both you and Doug are making truthful and accurate
statements and I took both sets of advice to the inspection with me. It
was very helpful and I thank you both!

I'm also considering a new boat, although when I contacted Seaward to
ask for warranty information on the 2004, their agent wrote back to me
"don't take offense, but you didn't buy the Seaward from us, and we
don't have gobs of time to bring you up to speed on it. - if you have
questions, the seller will have to answer them." That's some factory
support, huh? That one statement made me feel like I wouldn't rush to
give them new business - it's the kind of off-handed remark that just
may have cost them a
$90K sale. For that kind of cash, Precision will build me a 28 model.

Back to the used boat: even though we're talking a fair sum of cash,
the current owner and I kept it rather informal and on a gentleman's
level. However, I realized as we came closer to making the transaction,
that all protection was in the current owner's favor. His bank (loan)
is taking care of their asses but I have no one but myself to cover me.
Hand me a title and I'll hand over the cash is what I had in mind. I
feel as though I'd need to hire an advisor to make this work now.

The lines and fenders are more of an indicator to me than a real
problem. Hell, I threw in life preservers, spare parts, grills, and
every other nicety I could in order to sweeten the deal when I sold.
This didn't kill the deal by itself, but it gave me a reference point
regarding the owner's mindset.
I know there are plenty of nice boats out there for a guy with cash and
a desire to sail, so I'm walking away unless the current owner calls
and fixes things. If it were me, I'd get a bridge loan, and with title
in hand, I'd make a deal.
Thanks again Rob
Scout

Capt. Rob wrote:
Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.
For what it's worth, I work with several surveyors, 2 are sailboat
specialists (pretty much all they do) and all agree the Seaward is one
of the better built small cruising boats. We've had a few come through
here for work and they are damn solid.
Sorry it's not working out, but I think if you talk things over a bit,
you can save the deal. The owner keeping fenders and lines is not the
end of the world. The other aspects of the deal can be worked out
assuming you are certain his paperwork is real and not some sort of
scam. Every now and again someone sells a boat that isn't theirs.


RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.


I noticed he didn't mention that he decided at the last
minute to keep some gear that was previously indicated to go
with the boat.

This kind of stuff is one reason why a clearly written sales
contract is a good idea.


"Scout" wrote:
Thanks Charlie,
Very interesting reading. The responders seem to feel I am somehow
planning something illegal or immoral by handing over cash (certified
check from Wachovia) and expecting a title.

Well, the poster named 'Robin' has a pretty clear idea of
what constitutes a closing. Didn't seem judgemental, just
explaining how it works. It is also interesting to me that
this explaination implied that long "clearing" times for
checks are a scam by the bank (which they are). The fact
that it's a very common scam doesn't make it any more honest.



.... I also note that the seller
fails to explain that none of these things (the lien, and the items he
is keeping) were mentioned to me during the inspection, only later,
after I had made the deposit and wanted to arrange a swap date. I
believe the seller is an honest guy, as I am, but we are both
know-nothings with the legal stuff. In spite of his honest intentions,
if he messes up I don't want to pay for the mistake.

BINGO and that is why the closing process includes
protection for both parties.

.... I'd rather pay a
broker's fee, as I did with my last purchase, so everything is above
board and legal.

Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example, I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.



..... Even if I felt safe with the deal, how many
times should I have to make the 8 hour drive to close this deal?


Once, and drive back with the boat, with sufficient
paperwork to satisfy the officials in your state, and
certainty of delivery of clear title if you don't get it at
closing.

For him to expect you to fork over 40 grand and wait two
weeks to pick up the boat is absurd.


Charlie Morgan wrote:
I agree with Rob that you can probably work this deal out. I can also
tell you that the seller is a long time contributor to that list, and
he has always seemed like an okay guy.


You learn a lot about people when you buy a car, boat, or
house from them.

FWIW I think he probably is an okay guy, just wants
everything slanted in his favor. Is that so wrong?

The deal is not necessarily dead, but there are a LOT of
boats out there for sale. I'd recommend giving this one a
cooling-off period, and if you don't find something you like
as much or better (that chainplate situation is a little
off-putting) then approach again and mention that you will
want to make the deal properly with a contract & closing.

DSK

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

I'd make a lower offer, due to the circumstances. The worst
he can do is say no.

S


"DSK" wrote in message
...

The deal is not necessarily dead, but there are a LOT of
boats out there for sale. I'd recommend giving this one a
cooling-off period, and if you don't find something you
like
as much or better (that chainplate situation is a little
off-putting) then approach again and mention that you will
want to make the deal properly with a contract & closing.

DSK

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

When I bought my boat, the sellers' broker was very
knowledgeable and helpful to me. He answered all my
questions about taxes, registration, etc. , and provided the
necessary forms.

Let me know if you want his name, Scout. He's in Georgetown
MD.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how
to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example,
I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of
buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Actually, #1 is a good indication that something is clearly strange. Keeping that stuff is silly. When I bought my boat, the owner kept "delivering" more stuff to the boat when it was in the yard. He would send me an email, saying that large box is not a bomb, or oh wait I forgot to give you.... happened several times.

Good call on not proceeding. #2 sounds fishy to me.

Don't worry, you'll find something even better.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scout" wrote in message ...
It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you use
this to take a jab at Doug.



Scotty, take a pill. I wanted to hear what Scout had found and he
honestly told us. Please don't turn every thread into a troll.

Scout, if you really like the boat, don't give up. I will add this
though: The response you got from Seaward is so awful and dumb, I'd
send it back to them and let them know you'd NEVER buy a new boat from
them. They should offer SOME support for thier boats no matter who the
owner is. When I bought the Beneteau they were very helpful in giving
me specs, part info and some history on my exact hull #.
Good luck...I hope it works out.


RB
35s5
NY

Rob,
They (Hake) actually came through for me (maybe). I heard from them on
the boat Frank has been mentioning in the Florida Panhandle. We need to
work out some details (such as adding HD batteries and an inverter for
AC at anchor). It actually looks like a better boat and Hake is doing
the inspection on it (former owner trading it in for the 32). Maybe I
got lucky this time.
And the rep from Hake took the time to let me know "we do have the
title for the boat" - woohoooo!
I'll keep you all posted. If this works out, I'll be in Florida as soon
as Hake is finished the work. Maybe I'll be sailing by October!
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Thanks Jeff,
You've captured my thoughts exactly. The seller is a heck of nice guy
but somehow doesn't understand how I would turn down his proposal. Part
of it was communication - I suppose he assumed I'd be alright with
paying for a boat that he doesn't really own. The bank takes the
position that no one is to be trusted (except them).
The lesson, I guess, is to state up front what is expected from the
other party.
I may still get that boat, Hake has contacted me afterall, and this
26RK looks even better. And, it has their stamp of approval as well as
some new upgrades.
Scout

Jeff wrote:
Sorry to hear this isn't going smoothly ...

A few thoughts:
Don't worry about the anchors, if you're like me you have your own
thoughts and would likely replace them. Fenders also you might be
replaced, I wouldn't be happy rubbing someone else grunge into my boat
- OTOH it seems rather petty, kind of like a renter taking everything
that isn't nailed down when leaving.

Last time around, I kept all my portable nav instruments, tools, and
cooking utensils. All sailing gear, including things that I had to
replace like a riding sail, were left behind.

I'm surprised at how often manufacturers fail to realize that they are
being judged for future business when they blow off inquiries. We
went to the Newport show in '94 to pick our next boat. A Nonsuch 36
was on the short list and Nonsuch was there with the team that had
taken over from Hinterhoeller. I asked them (VP of Sales, I think) if
there was anyway to upgrade the double line reefing on my N30 to the
new single line system, and they blew me off with a curt "Yea, buy a
new boat." My thought was "**** you too, there's no chance I'll buy a
boat from you," and it was no surprise that no one else bought from
them and the company was gone in a few years.

As for the current deal, its the seller's responsibility to deliver a
boat free of liens. You should not have to put down serious money
until you can legitimately insure the boat. When we bought the PDQ
there was an anxious moment after we had handed over the big check,
because the 800 number for Boat/US would not work with the Canadian
phone system! Of course, this was sorted out in an hour and seemed
like it was a meaningless worry, but an odd thing happened later:
After paying for the boat we played with it for a few days and then
left it in Canada. When we came back in a few weeks we were told not
to be concerned as we walked down the dock because our boat had not
been damaged by the explosion! Indeed, a powerboat 3 slips over had
blown up after returning from the fuel dock and plugging in to the
shore power. Our boat was unaffected, but the cat owned by the owner
of PDQ did suffer cosmetic damage. Had things gone a bit differently,
we could have been in that slip, uninsured.

This deal can probably be salvaged - it sounds like a communication
problem between the seller and the seller's bank. They deal with
house closings every day, this shouldn't be any more complicated.


Scout wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for your advice.

There are posters here I never see because they are in my ****-can
file. Others I read all the time, like you and Doug. I laugh a lot and
skim much of the trolling, but recognize that both you and Doug offer
much to this group. So - what I concluded was that the Seaward is a
superior boat, as you've stated, and I want one! However, upon close
inspection, I also noted some of the things that Doug was referring to.
For example, I noted that the supports for the shrouds, which are made
of very heavy stainless hardware, pass through the cabin via a hole
that appears to just be hacked through the fiberglass, and then
caulked. As a water tight cabin, that doesn't cut it. And as a result
of what appears to be an after-thought, the boat shows evidence of some
major leaks in the cabin, which travelled around, as water leaks do. I
also noted that the Captain's seat across the stern is an arch-shaped
piece of reinforced fiberglass, and it has been broken in two places.
The current owner is much lighter than I, so in the back of my mind I
was fabricating a new, hinged seat. I can deal with these issues, but
my point is that both you and Doug are making truthful and accurate
statements and I took both sets of advice to the inspection with me. It
was very helpful and I thank you both!

I'm also considering a new boat, although when I contacted Seaward to
ask for warranty information on the 2004, their agent wrote back to me
"don't take offense, but you didn't buy the Seaward from us, and we
don't have gobs of time to bring you up to speed on it. - if you have
questions, the seller will have to answer them." That's some factory
support, huh? That one statement made me feel like I wouldn't rush to
give them new business - it's the kind of off-handed remark that just
may have cost them a
$90K sale. For that kind of cash, Precision will build me a 28 model.

Back to the used boat: even though we're talking a fair sum of cash,
the current owner and I kept it rather informal and on a gentleman's
level. However, I realized as we came closer to making the transaction,
that all protection was in the current owner's favor. His bank (loan)
is taking care of their asses but I have no one but myself to cover me.
Hand me a title and I'll hand over the cash is what I had in mind. I
feel as though I'd need to hire an advisor to make this work now.

The lines and fenders are more of an indicator to me than a real
problem. Hell, I threw in life preservers, spare parts, grills, and
every other nicety I could in order to sweeten the deal when I sold.
This didn't kill the deal by itself, but it gave me a reference point
regarding the owner's mindset.
I know there are plenty of nice boats out there for a guy with cash and
a desire to sail, so I'm walking away unless the current owner calls
and fixes things. If it were me, I'd get a bridge loan, and with title
in hand, I'd make a deal.
Thanks again Rob
Scout

Capt. Rob wrote:
Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.
For what it's worth, I work with several surveyors, 2 are sailboat
specialists (pretty much all they do) and all agree the Seaward is one
of the better built small cruising boats. We've had a few come through
here for work and they are damn solid.
Sorry it's not working out, but I think if you talk things over a bit,
you can save the deal. The owner keeping fenders and lines is not the
end of the world. The other aspects of the deal can be worked out
assuming you are certain his paperwork is real and not some sort of
scam. Every now and again someone sells a boat that isn't theirs.


RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

DSK wrote:
Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.


I noticed he didn't mention that he decided at the last
minute to keep some gear that was previously indicated to go
with the boat.

This kind of stuff is one reason why a clearly written sales
contract is a good idea.


"Scout" wrote:
Thanks Charlie,
Very interesting reading. The responders seem to feel I am somehow
planning something illegal or immoral by handing over cash (certified
check from Wachovia) and expecting a title.

Well, the poster named 'Robin' has a pretty clear idea of
what constitutes a closing. Didn't seem judgemental, just
explaining how it works. It is also interesting to me that
this explaination implied that long "clearing" times for
checks are a scam by the bank (which they are). The fact
that it's a very common scam doesn't make it any more honest.



.... I also note that the seller
fails to explain that none of these things (the lien, and the items he
is keeping) were mentioned to me during the inspection, only later,
after I had made the deposit and wanted to arrange a swap date. I
believe the seller is an honest guy, as I am, but we are both
know-nothings with the legal stuff. In spite of his honest intentions,
if he messes up I don't want to pay for the mistake.

BINGO and that is why the closing process includes
protection for both parties.

.... I'd rather pay a
broker's fee, as I did with my last purchase, so everything is above
board and legal.

Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example, I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.



..... Even if I felt safe with the deal, how many
times should I have to make the 8 hour drive to close this deal?


Once, and drive back with the boat, with sufficient
paperwork to satisfy the officials in your state, and
certainty of delivery of clear title if you don't get it at
closing.

For him to expect you to fork over 40 grand and wait two
weeks to pick up the boat is absurd.


Charlie Morgan wrote:
I agree with Rob that you can probably work this deal out. I can also
tell you that the seller is a long time contributor to that list, and
he has always seemed like an okay guy.


You learn a lot about people when you buy a car, boat, or
house from them.

FWIW I think he probably is an okay guy, just wants
everything slanted in his favor. Is that so wrong?

The deal is not necessarily dead, but there are a LOT of
boats out there for sale. I'd recommend giving this one a
cooling-off period, and if you don't find something you like
as much or better (that chainplate situation is a little
off-putting) then approach again and mention that you will
want to make the deal properly with a contract & closing.

DSK

Thanks Doug,
as usual, your points are on target, clear, organized, and well
articulated.
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Thanks Scotty - I think I'll be driving next to Florida to visit the
Hake's!
Scout


Scotty wrote:
When I bought my boat, the sellers' broker was very
knowledgeable and helpful to me. He answered all my
questions about taxes, registration, etc. , and provided the
necessary forms.

Let me know if you want his name, Scout. He's in Georgetown
MD.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how
to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example,
I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of
buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Scout wrote:
Thanks Scotty - I think I'll be driving next to Florida to visit the
Hake's!
Scout


Scotty wrote:
When I bought my boat, the sellers' broker was very
knowledgeable and helpful to me. He answered all my
questions about taxes, registration, etc. , and provided the
necessary forms.

Let me know if you want his name, Scout. He's in Georgetown
MD.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how
to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example,
I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of
buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.

By any vhancr is that the Hake's formerly of Whitehall, MI?

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

You mentioned an asking price of $50k, yet on the
TrailerSalor site a dealer has a 2007 listed at $36k. What
am I missing?

Is the Fla. boat more or less money than the NY one?

Scotty

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Scout" wrote
| It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences took place.
`

So sorry to hear it. You were so excited...

I'm pretty busy today but I'm taking the time to pass this on to you. There's an older (1999)
Hake Seaward 25 for sale in the Florida Mariner magazine. It's only $19,900. It's at World
Class Yachts, Palm Beach Gardens. 941 925-1439. (ask for Larry) I don't know if your heart's
set on a newer one or not. This one has "new hull, deck and bottom paint, new mast, running
and standing rigging. Great sail inventory and loaded w/extra equipment." It looks white in the
photograph. It looks like it has roller furling on the front. It has four windows on each side
and it looks like it has a little bowsprit. It has a S/9.9 Yanmar.

Cheers,
Ellen

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

new hull, deck and bottom paint


Why does a 7-8 year old boat have "new" deck and hull paint?
Pass.



RB
35s5
NY

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote
| Why does a 7-8 year old boat have "new" deck and hull paint?

There's been lots of hurricanes in this part of the world the past two years.
It might've had hurricane damage. For the price it could be worth checking into.
I found a two more for sale. One for $31,000 at 423 987-0039. It's a 1998.
It comes with a dual axle trailer. The photograph makes it look like new. There's
another one at 904 247-7966, Dick Bolger Yachts (Jax). It doesn't give a price
but it has lots of accessories listed. It's a 1997.
Seems like Scout has a choice and doesn't have to be upset about the one he
wanted to buy.

Cheers,
Ellen

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Scout, any conman worth his salt knows how to create that impression.

"Scout" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks Jeff,
You've captured my thoughts exactly. The seller is a heck of nice guy
but somehow doesn't understand how I would turn down his proposal.

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

On 12 Sep 2006 10:04:44 -0700, "Scout" wrote:


Capt. Rob wrote:
That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you use
this to take a jab at Doug.



Scotty, take a pill. I wanted to hear what Scout had found and he
honestly told us. Please don't turn every thread into a troll.

Scout, if you really like the boat, don't give up. I will add this
though: The response you got from Seaward is so awful and dumb, I'd
send it back to them and let them know you'd NEVER buy a new boat from
them. They should offer SOME support for thier boats no matter who the
owner is. When I bought the Beneteau they were very helpful in giving
me specs, part info and some history on my exact hull #.
Good luck...I hope it works out.


RB
35s5
NY

Rob,
They (Hake) actually came through for me (maybe). I heard from them on
the boat Frank has been mentioning in the Florida Panhandle. We need to
work out some details (such as adding HD batteries and an inverter for
AC at anchor). It actually looks like a better boat and Hake is doing
the inspection on it (former owner trading it in for the 32). Maybe I
got lucky this time.
And the rep from Hake took the time to let me know "we do have the
title for the boat" - woohoooo!
I'll keep you all posted. If this works out, I'll be in Florida as soon
as Hake is finished the work. Maybe I'll be sailing by October!
Scout


Hey, great, hope it works out. My advice, take some time off and sail
the Panhandle area while you are down there before you drag it home.
Beautiful area and October is a great time to sail down there although
you will hit some days with very light winds.

Frank

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

I haven't a clue Katy, but the designer/builder and owner of the Hake
company is flying to Mexico Beach on Monday to meet me there. Please keep
all fingers crossed! The boat I'm looking at now is in the Gulf, and has all
the options I wanted in the first boat. It's a bit more money, but
definitely worth every penny. At first I thought I was going to have to
drive from Mexico Beach to Stuart Fl, but I've just been informed that all
the work they were going to do is already done! Woohoo! The inverter, high
output alternator, and SS hot water heater were all part of the original
purchase. It couldn't get any better!
I'll keep you posted.
Scout

"katy" wrote in message
...
Scout wrote:
Thanks Scotty - I think I'll be driving next to Florida to visit the
Hake's!
Scout


Scotty wrote:
When I bought my boat, the sellers' broker was very
knowledgeable and helpful to me. He answered all my
questions about taxes, registration, etc. , and provided the
necessary forms.

Let me know if you want his name, Scout. He's in Georgetown
MD.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how
to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example,
I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of
buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.

By any vhancr is that the Hake's formerly of Whitehall, MI?

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Thanks again Frank.
If this works out, I'll be hauling that boat from the Panhandle to South
Jersey and the Chesapeake!
Hake Engineering has come through with a great deal for me. The day appears
to be won!
Details to follow as the story unfolds : )
Scout

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences
took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the
anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next
boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt
that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was
inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal.
However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of
nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean
to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the
boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the
title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for
2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially
giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an
honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time
or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I
know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small
details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout


Too bad Scout.

The '04 located in the panhandle is still listed on the Seaward
brokerage site. A far piece away from you, but available. Read in
post below where you were not knocked out by their customer service.
Tell you the truth, I emailed them asking for some clarification of
displacement info on the engine options, and they never returned my
email. But I made their database because they now email me every time
a boat comes in brokerage.

At any rate if it is still there in October, I will possibly drop by
and look at it as I'm going to be in the area. As mentioned, don't
think it is right for me, but if you still have interest, will give
you my impression if you haven't moved on.

The listed boat may be the one I saw in St. Joe's Bay last spring.
Looked great under sail.

Frank

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

I wish I could Frank but this unplanned time off work couldn't happen at a
worse time. I'm taking a few days to get this done but I'm gonna have to pay
for it later! I can always go back later. If we do another Katrina trip to
Long Beach, Miss, maybe I'll pull the boat along!
Scout


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 12 Sep 2006 10:04:44 -0700, "Scout" wrote:


Capt. Rob wrote:
That's real classy Bob, Scouts' heart is broken and you use
this to take a jab at Doug.



Scotty, take a pill. I wanted to hear what Scout had found and he
honestly told us. Please don't turn every thread into a troll.

Scout, if you really like the boat, don't give up. I will add this
though: The response you got from Seaward is so awful and dumb, I'd
send it back to them and let them know you'd NEVER buy a new boat from
them. They should offer SOME support for thier boats no matter who the
owner is. When I bought the Beneteau they were very helpful in giving
me specs, part info and some history on my exact hull #.
Good luck...I hope it works out.


RB
35s5
NY

Rob,
They (Hake) actually came through for me (maybe). I heard from them on
the boat Frank has been mentioning in the Florida Panhandle. We need to
work out some details (such as adding HD batteries and an inverter for
AC at anchor). It actually looks like a better boat and Hake is doing
the inspection on it (former owner trading it in for the 32). Maybe I
got lucky this time.
And the rep from Hake took the time to let me know "we do have the
title for the boat" - woohoooo!
I'll keep you all posted. If this works out, I'll be in Florida as soon
as Hake is finished the work. Maybe I'll be sailing by October!
Scout


Hey, great, hope it works out. My advice, take some time off and sail
the Panhandle area while you are down there before you drag it home.
Beautiful area and October is a great time to sail down there although
you will hit some days with very light winds.

Frank

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Scotty,
The base (sail away) price of the 26RK is $36K. IF you want all the
options, they're gonna cost big bucks.
Scout


"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
You mentioned an asking price of $50k, yet on the
TrailerSalor site a dealer has a 2007 listed at $36k. What
am I missing?

Is the Fla. boat more or less money than the NY one?

Scotty

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Capt. JG" wrote
Don't worry, you'll find something even better.

Looks like you might be right Jon!
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

Scout wrote:
I haven't a clue Katy

So what's your wife going to call you this time? BTW, that was the same
tactic Mr Sails used to get his Bimmer....

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:22:00 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

I haven't a clue Katy, but the designer/builder and owner of the Hake
company is flying to Mexico Beach on Monday to meet me there. Please keep
all fingers crossed! The boat I'm looking at now is in the Gulf, and has all
the options I wanted in the first boat. It's a bit more money, but
definitely worth every penny. At first I thought I was going to have to
drive from Mexico Beach to Stuart Fl, but I've just been informed that all
the work they were going to do is already done! Woohoo! The inverter, high
output alternator, and SS hot water heater were all part of the original
purchase. It couldn't get any better!
I'll keep you posted.
Scout

Is that where it is? Darn, I would have liked to have looked at it.
I was there three weeks ago. Spend a couple of weeks a year in
Mexico Beach. Going back in October. Great place.

Frank


"katy" wrote in message
...
Scout wrote:
Thanks Scotty - I think I'll be driving next to Florida to visit the
Hake's!
Scout


Scotty wrote:
When I bought my boat, the sellers' broker was very
knowledgeable and helpful to me. He answered all my
questions about taxes, registration, etc. , and provided the
necessary forms.

Let me know if you want his name, Scout. He's in Georgetown
MD.

Scotty



"DSK" wrote in message
...
Yes, so long as the broker is really a pro and knows how
to
do things properly. Remember, 50% of all people are below
average intelligence, and 50% of all brokers are below
average in professional knowledge & conduct. For example,
I
have only ever talked to one broker in my life who could
clearly and accurately explain the tax obligations of
buying
a boat in our state. All the others merely hand out blithe
reassurassances which eventually land the buyer in tax
trouble. You wonder how these guys get by.

By any vhancr is that the Hake's formerly of Whitehall, MI?

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:22:00 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

I haven't a clue Katy, but the designer/builder and owner of the Hake
company is flying to Mexico Beach on Monday to meet me there. Please keep
all fingers crossed! The boat I'm looking at now is in the Gulf, and has
all
the options I wanted in the first boat. It's a bit more money, but
definitely worth every penny. At first I thought I was going to have to
drive from Mexico Beach to Stuart Fl, but I've just been informed that all
the work they were going to do is already done! Woohoo! The inverter, high
output alternator, and SS hot water heater were all part of the original
purchase. It couldn't get any better!
I'll keep you posted.
Scout

Is that where it is? Darn, I would have liked to have looked at it.
I was there three weeks ago. Spend a couple of weeks a year in
Mexico Beach. Going back in October. Great place.

Frank

Actually at Port St Joe Marina. I'll be there bright and early Monday morn.
More likely - Sunday night.
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:28:16 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:22:00 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

I haven't a clue Katy, but the designer/builder and owner of the Hake
company is flying to Mexico Beach on Monday to meet me there. Please keep
all fingers crossed! The boat I'm looking at now is in the Gulf, and has
all
the options I wanted in the first boat. It's a bit more money, but
definitely worth every penny. At first I thought I was going to have to
drive from Mexico Beach to Stuart Fl, but I've just been informed that all
the work they were going to do is already done! Woohoo! The inverter, high
output alternator, and SS hot water heater were all part of the original
purchase. It couldn't get any better!
I'll keep you posted.
Scout

Is that where it is? Darn, I would have liked to have looked at it.
I was there three weeks ago. Spend a couple of weeks a year in
Mexico Beach. Going back in October. Great place.

Frank

Actually at Port St Joe Marina. I'll be there bright and early Monday morn.
More likely - Sunday night.
Scout



Went by there when I was down. Walked the piers. Seaward must have
been out, didn't see it.

But now I'm fairly sure it must have been the one I saw sailing up to
the point on Cape San Blas.

At any rate, have a good trip, hope it works out.

Frank

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:28:16 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:22:00 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

I haven't a clue Katy, but the designer/builder and owner of the Hake
company is flying to Mexico Beach on Monday to meet me there. Please
keep
all fingers crossed! The boat I'm looking at now is in the Gulf, and has
all
the options I wanted in the first boat. It's a bit more money, but
definitely worth every penny. At first I thought I was going to have to
drive from Mexico Beach to Stuart Fl, but I've just been informed that
all
the work they were going to do is already done! Woohoo! The inverter,
high
output alternator, and SS hot water heater were all part of the original
purchase. It couldn't get any better!
I'll keep you posted.
Scout

Is that where it is? Darn, I would have liked to have looked at it.
I was there three weeks ago. Spend a couple of weeks a year in
Mexico Beach. Going back in October. Great place.

Frank

Actually at Port St Joe Marina. I'll be there bright and early Monday
morn.
More likely - Sunday night.
Scout



Went by there when I was down. Walked the piers. Seaward must have
been out, didn't see it.

But now I'm fairly sure it must have been the one I saw sailing up to
the point on Cape San Blas.

At any rate, have a good trip, hope it works out.

Frank

Thanks Frank.
I'm hoping this is the one too. I'm also hoping she didn't suffer any real
damage during the storms last year. Time will tell.
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant occurrences
took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping the
anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his "next
boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat, and felt
that that would have been a good time to let me know which things I was
inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no real big deal.
However, when someone is handing you a check for your asking price of
nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know that you didn't mean
to imply that the necessary hardware stays with the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the
boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the
title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo for
2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am essentially
giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I think he is an
honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I don't have the time
or financial and legal expertise to make it work comfortably for me. I
know it can be done, but the physical miles between us and the small
details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.

CWM

Charile,
Thanks for your input with the other group. I feel badly but I think both of
us will eventually get a good deal.
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 12 Sep 2006 06:20:10 -0700, "Scout" wrote:


Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant
occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping
the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his
"next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the boat,
and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which
things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no
real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your
asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know
that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with
the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on the
boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the
title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo
for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am
essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I
think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I
don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work
comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles
between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.

CWM
Thanks Charlie,
Very interesting reading. The responders seem to feel I am somehow
planning something illegal or immoral by handing over cash (certified
check from Wachovia) and expecting a title. I also note that the seller
fails to explain that none of these things (the lien, and the items he
is keeping) were mentioned to me during the inspection, only later,
after I had made the deposit and wanted to arrange a swap date. I
believe the seller is an honest guy, as I am, but we are both
know-nothings with the legal stuff. In spite of his honest intentions,
if he messes up I don't want to pay for the mistake. I'd rather pay a
broker's fee, as I did with my last purchase, so everything is above
board and lega. It's fine to take the sell-it-yourself approach, but
the seller should be prepared to do it correctly, which begins with a
total and honest disclosure to the prospective buyer. I still believe
he means well, but we are both dabbling in an area where professional
help may be called for. Even if I felt safe with the deal, how many
times should I have to make the 8 hour drive to close this deal?
Scout

Just curious, Scout... Did the seller mention anything interesting
about his keel?

CWM

Only that it needs to be dropped some even while motoring.
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:04:51 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
On 12 Sep 2006 06:20:10 -0700, "Scout" wrote:


Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 06:32:01 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

It looks like the deal on my Seaward is dead. Two significant
occurrences took place.

1. The small issue: The current owner informed me that he was keeping
the anchor, docking lines, and bumpers because he needs them for his
"next boat." It just seemed petty. I drove 8 hours to look at the
boat,
and felt that that would have been a good time to let me know which
things I was inspecting weren't staying. More of a tell-tale, but no
real big deal. However, when someone is handing you a check for your
asking price of nearly $50K, is it then prudent to let the buyer know
that you didn't mean to imply that the necessary hardware stays with
the boat?

2. The big issue: the current owner wants me to pay off his loan on
the
boat and wait 2 weeks for the bank to clear the lien and produce the
title. I'm not big on finance but it didn't feel right to be in limbo
for 2 weeks. Can I sail the boat? Get it insured? Since I am
essentially giving the current owner cash, I feel very vulnerable. I
think he is an honest guy but too much can happen in two weeks, and I
don't have the time or financial and legal expertise to make it work
comfortably for me. I know it can be done, but the physical miles
between us and the small details will surely become a burden.

Major bummer. Back to the Google Board! ****!

Scout

Sorry to hear that Scout. I think you should go check out the Seaward
message board at Trailersailor.com immediately, as the seller has
taken the case public there, and hasn't exactly represented your side
of the story accurately.

CWM
Thanks Charlie,
Very interesting reading. The responders seem to feel I am somehow
planning something illegal or immoral by handing over cash (certified
check from Wachovia) and expecting a title. I also note that the seller
fails to explain that none of these things (the lien, and the items he
is keeping) were mentioned to me during the inspection, only later,
after I had made the deposit and wanted to arrange a swap date. I
believe the seller is an honest guy, as I am, but we are both
know-nothings with the legal stuff. In spite of his honest intentions,
if he messes up I don't want to pay for the mistake. I'd rather pay a
broker's fee, as I did with my last purchase, so everything is above
board and lega. It's fine to take the sell-it-yourself approach, but
the seller should be prepared to do it correctly, which begins with a
total and honest disclosure to the prospective buyer. I still believe
he means well, but we are both dabbling in an area where professional
help may be called for. Even if I felt safe with the deal, how many
times should I have to make the 8 hour drive to close this deal?
Scout

Just curious, Scout... Did the seller mention anything interesting
about his keel?

CWM

Only that it needs to be dropped some even while motoring.
Scout


Someone on that message board reminded me that it was that same guy who
hit
something VERY hard and destroyed the keel. This was all quite a while
ago, and
I might have some of the details a little off, but the keel on that boat
is not
as old as the rest of the boat. The boat was under warrantee, and he tried
to
claim the bulb simply "fell off" after a soft grounding or something. Hake
Yachts, rather than seem like they were a bunch of meanies, trucked the
boat to
the shop and installed a whole new keel.

Maybe the deal falling through was your lucky break after all!

Good luck with the boat in Florida.

CWM

Holy Sheeeiiittt! Wow wow wowzee!
Thanks Charlie, I might hit the lottery after that one!!
Scout

Gloom and Despair - Seaward is dead
 

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..


Someone on that message board reminded me that it was
that same guy who
hit
something VERY hard and destroyed the keel. This was all
quite a while
ago, and
I might have some of the details a little off, but the
keel on that boat
is not
as old as the rest of the boat. The boat was under
warrantee, and he tried
to
claim the bulb simply "fell off" after a soft grounding
or something. Hake
Yachts, rather than seem like they were a bunch of
meanies, trucked the
boat to
the shop and installed a whole new keel.

Maybe the deal falling through was your lucky break
after all!

Good luck with the boat in Florida.

CWM

Holy Sheeeiiittt! Wow wow wowzee!
Thanks Charlie, I might hit the lottery after that one!!
Scout


I realize that "Charlie" thinks of himself as a detective
( well he is a dick) , the guy broke the keel guides while
putting the boat on the trailer. he was too far in the
water.

Scotty