Thanks Jeff,
You've captured my thoughts exactly. The seller is a heck of nice guy
but somehow doesn't understand how I would turn down his proposal. Part
of it was communication - I suppose he assumed I'd be alright with
paying for a boat that he doesn't really own. The bank takes the
position that no one is to be trusted (except them).
The lesson, I guess, is to state up front what is expected from the
other party.
I may still get that boat, Hake has contacted me afterall, and this
26RK looks even better. And, it has their stamp of approval as well as
some new upgrades.
Scout

Jeff wrote:
Sorry to hear this isn't going smoothly ...

A few thoughts:
Don't worry about the anchors, if you're like me you have your own
thoughts and would likely replace them. Fenders also you might be
replaced, I wouldn't be happy rubbing someone else grunge into my boat
- OTOH it seems rather petty, kind of like a renter taking everything
that isn't nailed down when leaving.

Last time around, I kept all my portable nav instruments, tools, and
cooking utensils. All sailing gear, including things that I had to
replace like a riding sail, were left behind.

I'm surprised at how often manufacturers fail to realize that they are
being judged for future business when they blow off inquiries. We
went to the Newport show in '94 to pick our next boat. A Nonsuch 36
was on the short list and Nonsuch was there with the team that had
taken over from Hinterhoeller. I asked them (VP of Sales, I think) if
there was anyway to upgrade the double line reefing on my N30 to the
new single line system, and they blew me off with a curt "Yea, buy a
new boat." My thought was "**** you too, there's no chance I'll buy a
boat from you," and it was no surprise that no one else bought from
them and the company was gone in a few years.

As for the current deal, its the seller's responsibility to deliver a
boat free of liens. You should not have to put down serious money
until you can legitimately insure the boat. When we bought the PDQ
there was an anxious moment after we had handed over the big check,
because the 800 number for Boat/US would not work with the Canadian
phone system! Of course, this was sorted out in an hour and seemed
like it was a meaningless worry, but an odd thing happened later:
After paying for the boat we played with it for a few days and then
left it in Canada. When we came back in a few weeks we were told not
to be concerned as we walked down the dock because our boat had not
been damaged by the explosion! Indeed, a powerboat 3 slips over had
blown up after returning from the fuel dock and plugging in to the
shore power. Our boat was unaffected, but the cat owned by the owner
of PDQ did suffer cosmetic damage. Had things gone a bit differently,
we could have been in that slip, uninsured.

This deal can probably be salvaged - it sounds like a communication
problem between the seller and the seller's bank. They deal with
house closings every day, this shouldn't be any more complicated.


Scout wrote:
Rob,
Thanks for your advice.

There are posters here I never see because they are in my ****-can
file. Others I read all the time, like you and Doug. I laugh a lot and
skim much of the trolling, but recognize that both you and Doug offer
much to this group. So - what I concluded was that the Seaward is a
superior boat, as you've stated, and I want one! However, upon close
inspection, I also noted some of the things that Doug was referring to.
For example, I noted that the supports for the shrouds, which are made
of very heavy stainless hardware, pass through the cabin via a hole
that appears to just be hacked through the fiberglass, and then
caulked. As a water tight cabin, that doesn't cut it. And as a result
of what appears to be an after-thought, the boat shows evidence of some
major leaks in the cabin, which travelled around, as water leaks do. I
also noted that the Captain's seat across the stern is an arch-shaped
piece of reinforced fiberglass, and it has been broken in two places.
The current owner is much lighter than I, so in the back of my mind I
was fabricating a new, hinged seat. I can deal with these issues, but
my point is that both you and Doug are making truthful and accurate
statements and I took both sets of advice to the inspection with me. It
was very helpful and I thank you both!

I'm also considering a new boat, although when I contacted Seaward to
ask for warranty information on the 2004, their agent wrote back to me
"don't take offense, but you didn't buy the Seaward from us, and we
don't have gobs of time to bring you up to speed on it. - if you have
questions, the seller will have to answer them." That's some factory
support, huh? That one statement made me feel like I wouldn't rush to
give them new business - it's the kind of off-handed remark that just
may have cost them a
$90K sale. For that kind of cash, Precision will build me a 28 model.

Back to the used boat: even though we're talking a fair sum of cash,
the current owner and I kept it rather informal and on a gentleman's
level. However, I realized as we came closer to making the transaction,
that all protection was in the current owner's favor. His bank (loan)
is taking care of their asses but I have no one but myself to cover me.
Hand me a title and I'll hand over the cash is what I had in mind. I
feel as though I'd need to hire an advisor to make this work now.

The lines and fenders are more of an indicator to me than a real
problem. Hell, I threw in life preservers, spare parts, grills, and
every other nicety I could in order to sweeten the deal when I sold.
This didn't kill the deal by itself, but it gave me a reference point
regarding the owner's mindset.
I know there are plenty of nice boats out there for a guy with cash and
a desire to sail, so I'm walking away unless the current owner calls
and fixes things. If it were me, I'd get a bridge loan, and with title
in hand, I'd make a deal.
Thanks again Rob
Scout

Capt. Rob wrote:
Scout, that's a drag. The Seaward was a boat I suggested to you, while
Doug bashed it. I was wondering why you decided Doug's comments had no
bearing on the purchase attempt.
For what it's worth, I work with several surveyors, 2 are sailboat
specialists (pretty much all they do) and all agree the Seaward is one
of the better built small cruising boats. We've had a few come through
here for work and they are damn solid.
Sorry it's not working out, but I think if you talk things over a bit,
you can save the deal. The owner keeping fenders and lines is not the
end of the world. The other aspects of the deal can be worked out
assuming you are certain his paperwork is real and not some sort of
scam. Every now and again someone sells a boat that isn't theirs.


RB
35s5
NY