On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 05:56:36 -0400, "Scout"
wrote:

Bob,
I'm caught in a philosophical dilemma. I can't decide which is more
important to me, a large, comfortable, sea-worthy sailing vessel, or a
flexible, beachable craft that can go in all the quiet coves and shallow
back bays. There's my problem: do I want to duck around the back bays? or
head out for Nantucket or Cape Cod?

I can't see me attempting Nantucket from Philadelphia in a Mac 26, but maybe
I'm wrong. On the other hand, there's a lot of the bay less than 3 feet
deep. Why wasn't I born rich so I could have both?

I haven't ruled out either vision, and need to do more boat-yard searching
and soul-searching. I would like to stay under $50K, but for the right boat
would go 20-30% higher.

I'm taking Friday off to search boat yards, probably in the Chesapeake area.

Scotty - any Chesapeake boatyard recommendations to look at "for sale" boats
in the 30-40 ft range?

TIA!
Scout


I've been struggling with the same dilemma and, after much thought,
decided to move toward the trailerable gunkholer. For the four or
five cruising grounds I want to cover in the next few years it would
make more sense. After that, who knows.

Initially set my tow limit at 4K lbs., however that was based on
towing with my current truck. A Dodge Dakota, which is rated to 4800,
it struggled a bit recently when towing a friends boat at about 3500,
so I may change both the vehicle and the boat weight limit.

By the way, Seaward just sent me an email indicating they have taken a
2004, 26RK in as a trade, asking priced at $49K, if you have any
interest. It is on their web site in the brokerage section. Located
in the Florida panhandle. I was down there last week, had I known, I
would have looked at it. Too busy to go back right now, however, may
go back in October and look at it if it is still there.

Frank







"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
roups.com...

How about a water ballasted Catalina 25? It's not the best sailing
boat, but it's just fine and I can make you a great deal on this 100%
like example with trailer....


http://boatmax.com/photos/12201_1.JPG


She's so untouched...never even had holes for instruments added! Asking
19K with a 4 stroke honda (less than 15 hours!), but I can do a LOT
better on price.
Anyway...it's something to consider.
And what about those tough little Seward boats? Neat looking and well
built.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt" Rob wrote:
Ditto on the Sewards. Charming lines and quite well made.


Check some of the actual construction details on a Seaward
before taking this statement at face value.

DSK

Check some of the actual construction details on a Seaward
before taking this statement at face value.



Doug, every Seaward owner I've met (we've had several here over the
last 7 years) has found their boat above the average for production
boats and they certainly seem to hold up well over the years compared
to many others.
Rather than make some vague comment, if you know ANYTHING regarding
problems with the Seaward's reputation, please post it so we can ALL
check on it.
That way you don't sound like a knowing nothing dufus who just spouts
off about boats he's never been aboard.
Oops...too late!


RB
35s5
NY

Check some of the actual construction details on a Seaward
before taking this statement at face value.



"Capt" Rob wrote:
Doug, every Seaward owner I've met (we've had several here over the
last 7 years) has found their boat above the average for production
boats

Well, sure. How many boats are marketed as "poorly built"?
How many boat owners like to brag about what a piece of junk
their boat really is?

What people say has little (if any) correlation with fact...
on any subject. Hence the phrase(s) blah blah blah, yada
yada, etc etc.


Rather than make some vague comment, if you know ANYTHING regarding
problems with the Seaward's reputation, please post it so we can ALL
check on it.

So, you think it's better to judge boat's build quality
based on their advertising and on the opinions of their
owners, rather than inspecting details of the boat's
construction to see for yourself?


That way you don't sound like a knowing nothing dufus who just spouts
off about boats he's never been aboard.

I have looked very carefully at a number of Seawards, sailed
on a few.

If you haven't, and aren't willing to look, and aren't
planning to buy one, why the heck are you expressing an
opinion?

Bubbles, you're nuts!

DSK

Well, sure. How many boats are marketed as "poorly built"?
How many boat owners like to brag about what a piece of junk
their boat really is?


Doug, maybe in your neck of the woods Oday and Catalina owners pretend
they have Baltics, but not here. Most people I meet seem to know what
kind of boat they have along with strengths and weaknesses.
Furthermore, and better illustrating your ignorance and dufus
mentality, these Seaward boats are a nich type design, and are usually
bought by a more educated buyer who knows they need "that kind of
boat."

What people say has little (if any) correlation with fact...
on any subject. Hence the phrase(s) blah blah blah, yada
yada, etc etc.


Well then, please shut the hell up and get back to us when you've
watched a Seaward built from Day One and can comment with any authority
on it's quality. In the meantime, the words of some happy owners aint a
bad place to start.


So, you think it's better to judge boat's build quality
based on their advertising

Doug, you've been caught lying again. WHEN did I mention the
advertising of Seaward for a judgement on quality? We're all waiting.


and on the opinions of their
owners, rather than inspecting details of the boat's
construction to see for yourself?


No one has said that owners opinions are the end-all for learning about
build quality, so you're just trying to create a lie here again because
you have nothing to offer at all on the topic. Why don't you google
something up?


I have looked very carefully at a number of Seawards, sailed
on a few.


Oh, so what is YOUR summary on the build quality compared to a Catalina
or your old Hunter 19. We looked closely at the Seaward Eagle and I
found it to be a nicely finished boat. If you have a different opinion
on the Seaward boats from mine, let's hear it. You still have provided
nothing but vague hints. Why?

If you haven't, and aren't willing to look, and aren't
planning to buy one, why the heck are you expressing an
opinion?

Oh....so let's all follow the King of Keels rules from now
on...starting with Doug. You can't have an opinion on a boat unless you
own it or planning to buy it! LOL!


Bubbles, you're nuts!


Hey, but being nuts is far far better than being an arrogant ass full
of hot air like you.
I was sailing today, Doug and doing more tomorrow on a J29. Keep us all
posted on your powerboat.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt" Rob wrote:
Doug, maybe in your neck of the woods Oday and Catalina owners pretend
they have Baltics, but not here.

So, it's only you that blabbers continually about how you
have the perfect boat?


... Most people I meet seem to know what
kind of boat they have along with strengths and weaknesses.

So how come you don't?


Furthermore, and better illustrating your ignorance and dufus
mentality, these Seaward boats are a nich type design

Really? Like what?
Discuss, for example, the reserve stability & reserve
bouyancy of the Seaward hull designs. Then if you feel like
a challenge, the foils.




Well then, please shut the hell up and get back to us when you've
watched a Seaward built from Day One and can comment with any authority
on it's quality.

Have you watched a Seaward built from Day One?

For that matter, have you ever been in a boatbuilding plant?
Or built a boat yourself?


... In the meantime, the words of some happy owners aint a
bad place to start.


A better place would be some former owners. They have less
of built-in agenda.





No one has said that owners opinions are the end-all for learning about
build quality, so you're just trying to create a lie here again


That was pretty much the only definite thing you mentioned.
Inspection of construction details was absent from your
posts. So it appears you don't believe in looking carefully
at any boat to judge for yourself... presumably because you
don't know how.




.... We looked closely at the Seaward Eagle and I
found it to be a nicely finished boat.

One boat is "nicely finished." Hooray.

How about the structural elements & tabbing? Hatches
integrity & strength? Wiring? Plumbing? Rig?


... You still have provided
nothing but vague hints.


I have provided nothing except the opinion that one should
look for oneself, and a statement that I have done so.



I was sailing today, Doug and doing more tomorrow on a J29.

Doubt it. And when are you going to post a picture of that
J-29s bulbs keel? When are you going to learn to fly a
spinnaker?

DSK

So, it's only you that blabbers continually about how you
have the perfect boat?


Golly, Doug, here's a quote from my website, page 4:
"The 35s5 is not the perfect boat for everyone."
Of course this has nothing to do with the Seaward as you desperately
try to change topics. You still haven't told anyone where I cited
Seaward ads as a measure of quality. You weren't lying, were you????


Really? Like what?
Discuss, for example, the reserve stability & reserve
bouyancy of the Seaward hull designs. Then if you feel like
a challenge, the foils.


No, no, no, oh King of Keels. We were NOT discussing the sailing
characteristics. We WERE talking about build quality. We're STILL
waiting to hear what you have to say that so totally opposes comments
of owners.


Well then, please shut the hell up and get back to us when you've
watched a Seaward built from Day One and can comment with any authority
on it's quality.


Have you watched a Seaward built from Day One?

Nope, but I have been aboard several Seawards, spoken to surveyors
about them and witnessed some of the construction points when our yard
worked on them. I've also spoken to owners who'd owned their share of
Pearsons, Catalinas and so on.


For that matter, have you ever been in a boatbuilding plant?
Or built a boat yourself?

Scramble hard, Doug. Now we all need to be boat builders to judge boat
quality! You are such an arrogant ass and phoney know-it-all. We're
STILL waiting for you to address ANYTHING relevant to the topic.


A better place would be some former owners. They have less
of built-in agenda.


BWAHAHHA! Now Doug is basically agreeing with me. Since I brokered two
Seawards, I guess those owner comments suddenly count NOW, right? But
if one of them ordered a brand new Eagle the following year, then his
opinion counts less. Doug, seriously...you're a full of hot air ass.


That was pretty much the only definite thing you mentioned.
Inspection of construction details was absent from your
posts. So it appears you don't believe in looking carefully
at any boat to judge for yourself... presumably because you
don't know how.

Yep, Doug! You sure have me there. We can instantly discount a comment
like "she's well built" unless a person hunkers down for a detailed
review of the boat....even if it's not relevant to the discussion! Good
work!


How about the structural elements & tabbing? Hatches
integrity & strength? Wiring? Plumbing? Rig?


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're so desperate, it;s hilarious! So tell us, oh
king of Keels, what was wrong with the PLUMBING on the Seawards you've
seen. Oh, and I think it's clear to everyone that you've not been
aboard a Seaward EVER.



I have provided nothing except the opinion that one should
look for oneself, and a statement that I have done so.


King of Keels assumes he's so smart...and everyone else is so dumb,
that such a comment would be taken at face value!


Doubt it.

You doubt I was sailing...and somehow I actually post photos of us
sailing. Golly, Doug!


And when are you going to post a picture of that
J-29s bulbs keel?

Poor Doug. You asked for name and hull #. Not only did I provide that I
also gave a PHOTO of the boat at my Club. I'll be happy to post a pic
of her keel when she's hauled. You got busted...and I'll be more than
happy to show you up yet again.

When are you going to learn to fly a
spinnaker?

That's right, Doug...we can't fly any of our sails! Boo hoo!
Oops....off topic again, aint ya', Doug?
You are just the sort of person folks need to avoid. Because, even if
you don't know **** you're still willing to offer your uneducated
opinion. I know your type well. And guess what, Doug: I suspect that
some others may be glimpsing it as well.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt" Rob wrote:
No, no, no, oh King of Keels. We were NOT discussing the sailing
characteristics.

I guess that as far as your concerned, sailing
characteristics don't matter.

.... We WERE talking about build quality.

Well, I was. You seem to be blathering on about owner
satisfaction polls and advertising brochures.




Have you watched a Seaward built from Day One?

Nope, but I have been aboard several Seawards

Changing stories, Bubbles? Now it's "several"?





..... Since I brokered two
Seawards

Was this right after you dated Morgan Fairchild?



And when are you going to post a picture of that
J-29s bulbs keel?

Poor Doug. You asked for name and hull #. Not only did I provide that

When?

.... I
also gave a PHOTO of the boat at my Club

Which doesn't show the alleged bulb keel.

DSK

I guess that as far as your concerned, sailing
characteristics don't matter.


Not part of the discussion, Doug. We are talking about BUILD QUALITY.
Try to stay focused. I don't care if the Seaward has a 14 foot draft.
We're talking BUILD.


Well, I was. You seem to be blathering on about owner
satisfaction polls and advertising brochures.


Yet another lie. The only one to mention ads as a medium for finding
quality is Doug himself!


Changing stories, Bubbles? Now it's "several"?

Same story, Doug.


Was this right after you dated Morgan Fairchild?

Doug, I know you're frustrated. I broker boats and work with a full
service yard. I get on more sailboats in a week than you do all year.
Sorry, but it's true. Of course only a full of hot air blowhard like
you would even care about such a thing.


When?


Doug, are you now claiming that I did not provide a photo, hull # and
name of Extreme? Hmmmm??? Still off topic, Doug.


Which doesn't show the alleged bulb keel.

Still off topic, Doug...you're only hope now. But....Oh, so you DID see
the photo. Yes, in the water she does not show her bulb keel, but I
already told you that I'd post a pic when she's hauled. That'll be end
of October or early November, Doug...and a very entertaining day for
me.
Oh...and by the way (and I know this will upset you further) a certain
fellow named Rod Johnstone was involved in the bulb conversion, which
he did not initially approve of. The reason for the conversion? Can you
guess?



RB
35s5
NY

It takes a silly girly-man fool to seriously consider a Mac 26Anythingerother.
Might as well sail a Dempsey dumpster...

Paladin


"Scout" wrote in message . ..
| Thanks to all for the posts. I drove 5 hours round trip yesterday to see the
| Mac26 first hand. For a number of reasons, it's not the boat for me. I think
| it will do almost everything they say it will do, it just isn't big enough
| for me. I like lots of things about it, but...
|
| One thing I wish sales people would avoid is making a statement like "full
| standing head room" when it would be far better to say what that head room
| actually is. I was very disappointed by how much I had to bend over in a
| cabin with "full standing head room," quoted per the Mac literature. Since
| they chose to direct their comments to a shorter sailor, I took it to mean
| they don't want me to buy this boat.
|
| It also had a very flimsy feel to it. The hardware looked too fragile and I
| could see things breaking, tearing, splitting, and sheering off. Again, if I
| weighed 140 instead of 240, it might be ok.
|
| I loved the look of the shoalsailer
| http://www.shannonyachts.com/default.aspx?id=6 but it's out of range -
| moneywise.
| Oh well, back to the drawing board.
| Scout
|
|
| "Scotty" wrote in message
| news | Some things I don't like about the Mac is the very high
| freeboard, combined with the light weight of the boat, can
| really get pushed around in a cross wind.
| The 'quirky' powerboat look, although the blue hull does
| help a bit.
| The small powerboat steering wheel.
|
| The cabin is nice and very big for a 26' trailerable. I
| believe the owners berth is 7'7'' long ( bigger than a Bendy
| 35.5.5) The cockpit is bigger, too.
|
| Scotty
|
|
|
| "Scout" wrote in message
| ...
| Thanks Jim,
| I appreciate your input.
| The 26M is not out of the running, and I'm going to be
| visiting a dealer
| within the next few weeks to have a look at one up close.
| I'm looking at
| quite a few others too. For instance, I'm looking at Jim
| Taylor's boats
| (Precision) because I've owned one and loved almost
| everything about it
| (just needed it to be bigger).
| In the end, I'll most likely see something I hadn't
| figured on and just
| buy the damn thing. I have a history of doing elaborate
| research and then
| buying on instinct. Some times it works out for the
| best, some times it
| doesn't.
| Scout
|
| "JimC" wrote in message
| om...
| Scout,
|
| I have a 26M purchased in 2004, and I do like the
| boat. - It has a number
| of features that make it a good choice for the sailing I
| do in the
| Houston-Galveston area. Whether it would be the best
| choice for you may
| depend on what kind if sailing you expect to do. As you
| can easily see
| from the Mac discussion group Bill mentioned
| (http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/), lots of Mac owners
| use their boats
| for coastal cruising, for trips from California to
| Catalina island,
| sailing the Keys, etc.
|
| Because it is designed to motor and plane, and because
| it has a
| water-ballasted hull, the Mac doesn't perform under sail
| as well as a
| larger, heavier boat with longer waterline, weighted
| keel, etc. It's
| relatively light (around 4,000 pounds loaded and with
| water ballast), and
| its hull is something of a compromise (semi-V bottom). -
| I bought ours
| after sailing a number of larger, heavier boats, so I'm
| aware that the Mac
| isn't the kind of boat you would choose if you expect to
| make extended,
| open-sea voyages. (For one thing, it doesn't have the
| storage capacity
| needed for provisions for such cruises.) So if you
| expect to spend lots
| of time cruising offshore or sailing in heavy weather,
| you might want to
| look at a larger, heavier boat. Hunter and Catalina
| also make boats
| somewhat similar to the Mac. As you probably know,
| there are lots of
| used boats of various makes, designs and conditions on
| the market.
|
| On the plus side, the Mac 26M is just plain fun to sail.
| It's the most
| popular sailboat of its size, with thousands of owners
| in the US and
| foreign countries. As you probably know, the Mac doesn't
| require a slip
| (no slip fees or bottom treatments), it's easy to
| launch, roomy,
| versatile, can maneuver in shallow water (they float in
| one foot of
| water), safe (how many other boats discussed on this ng
| have flotation
| that keeps the boat afloat even if the hull is broken
| open below the
| waterline?), etc. The motor permits me to motor out to a
| desired sailing
| area at 15mph+ and to motor back quickly at the end of
| the day or if bad
| weather comes up, so I'm able to get in more time
| sailing when and where I
| want to sail, and I'm able to avoid problems that would
| otherwise keep me
| from enjoying the day.
|
| There is one major disadvantage to owning a Mac 26M,
| however. - They
| aren't a conventional boat, they cost much less than
| most, and you will be
| subject to some pretty sarcastic ridicule by owners of
| larger,
| conventional boats. Your original note asked if anyone
| on the ng had any
| actual experience on the Mac 26M. - You got a number of
| responses, mostly
| negative, but only one of them (Bill's) was from someone
| with actual
| experience on the the 26M, and he seemed to like his.
| This is fairly
| typical.
|
| In any event, look around at all the options and sail as
| many different
| boats as you can.
|
| Jim
|
|
|
|
| Scout wrote:
| Does anyone have any actual experience with the Mac
| 26M?
| In my unending search for the right boat, this boat
| appears to have many
| features of interest. I understand that the sailing
| performance is
| compromised to gain in other areas, but if speed is not
| my thing, why
| should I care?
| If the 26M is a poor boat, that what trailerable boat
| in that size range
| (abt 25') can do better?
| Scout
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com