A new friend...
 

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?

Thanks, LP

A new friend...
 

Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Some are better than others.

The 33.5 is the smallest of the Hunter "Legend" series of
racer-cruisers and they are roomy for their size & fast for
their roominess. How can that be bad?

DSK

A new friend...
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max

A new friend...
 

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:55:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max



Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.

Frank

A new friend...
 

No such thing as a bad boat.


Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.


Frank Boettcher wrote:
Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


He didn't say that *all* ferro-cement boats were horrid
abortions. Some are great, I knew a man in Florida with a
40' pinky schooner... the only one of that type I've ever
sailed... built out of ferro-cement. A few rough spots on
the hull but it was a great boat.

After thinking it over, I would have to say that there is
such a thing as a bad boat after all... ones that never
fulfill their basic function. Of coourse, in many cases it's
not really the boats fault.

DSK

A new friend...
 

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:53:05 -0400, DSK wrote:

No such thing as a bad boat.


Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.


Frank Boettcher wrote:
Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


He didn't say that *all* ferro-cement boats were horrid
abortions.

Yes, I know.

Years ago, guy in the slip next to me had a ferro-cement double ender
he built himself. He motored, less spars and rig, down the
Mississippi River from somewhere up north, with the intention of
fitting out and heading south. Had a pregnant wife and a Newfoundland
dog. Waited for the wife to deliver, then after fitting out they
headed out. I had serious doubts about the boat, particularly the
chain plate design. They made it about half way across the Gulf and
hit a storm, were dismasted, rescued by a freighter, but the boat sank
in tow.

Never saw them again, I guess they went back up north. Felt sorry for
him, I'm fairly sure you can't get those home built ferro-cement boats
insured.

But the one I helped deliver was nice with the exception of a very
serous weather helm problem.

And I guess Capn Rob is right. If you are going to own sub standard
boats, you should never get out of sight of land.

Frank



Some are great, I knew a man in Florida with a
40' pinky schooner... the only one of that type I've ever
sailed... built out of ferro-cement. A few rough spots on
the hull but it was a great boat.

After thinking it over, I would have to say that there is
such a thing as a bad boat after all... ones that never
fulfill their basic function. Of coourse, in many cases it's
not really the boats fault.

DSK

A new friend...
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:55:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max



Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


I wasn't impugning ferro-cement, rather just some of the "creations" that
have been fashioned from it. I saw one beautiful f-c boat a few years back,
but most have been so ugly that they had to sneak up on the ocean to get
wet.

Max

A new friend...
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:53:05 -0400, DSK wrote:

No such thing as a bad boat.


Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.


Frank Boettcher wrote:
Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


He didn't say that *all* ferro-cement boats were horrid
abortions.

Yes, I know.

Years ago, guy in the slip next to me had a ferro-cement double ender
he built himself. He motored, less spars and rig, down the
Mississippi River from somewhere up north, with the intention of
fitting out and heading south. Had a pregnant wife and a Newfoundland
dog. Waited for the wife to deliver, then after fitting out they
headed out. I had serious doubts about the boat, particularly the
chain plate design. They made it about half way across the Gulf and
hit a storm, were dismasted, rescued by a freighter, but the boat sank
in tow.

Never saw them again, I guess they went back up north. Felt sorry for
him, I'm fairly sure you can't get those home built ferro-cement boats
insured.

That may have been the story I saw in SOUNDINGS a while back. The boat
literally fell apart underway. I thought the people had bought it, however,
rather than built it. But it's been too long to remember details. At any
rate it was a "floating" death trap. The family survived, but lost
everything.

Max

A new friend...
 

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:59:18 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:55:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max



Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


I wasn't impugning ferro-cement, rather just some of the "creations" that
have been fashioned from it. I saw one beautiful f-c boat a few years back,
but most have been so ugly that they had to sneak up on the ocean to get
wet.

Max

Don't think I would ever trust one if I wasn't present during the
molding process. A continuously wet monolithic and homogeneous mold
operation is an absolute necessity and probably rarely occurs.
However, if done right, I'm led to believe that they get stronger
every year they are in the water.

Frank

A new friend...
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:59:18 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:55:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max



Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


I wasn't impugning ferro-cement, rather just some of the "creations" that
have been fashioned from it. I saw one beautiful f-c boat a few years
back,
but most have been so ugly that they had to sneak up on the ocean to get
wet.

Max

Don't think I would ever trust one if I wasn't present during the
molding process. A continuously wet monolithic and homogeneous mold
operation is an absolute necessity and probably rarely occurs.
However, if done right, I'm led to believe that they get stronger
every year they are in the water.

You have more faith in f-c than I. I'd never go offshore in one, despite
knowing it was built properly and by a pro. I just don't think it's a
reasonable building material, despite what some aficionados claim.

One of the positively ugliest f-c boats was built by a retired physician
near here. He put it in the water in an inland lake (it was 44'long !!) and
finally rigged it several years later, only to have it disassemble itself
the first time he sailed it. Apparently he knew more about medicine that
f-c construction. :-)

Max

A new friend...
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:59:18 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 21:55:47 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Lady Pilot wrote:

has a Hunter 33.5. Is that a "bad boat"?


No such thing as a bad boat.

Not so sure about that. A few of the horrid ferro-cement abortions I've
seen during my life probably qualified.

Max



Hey now, I logged about 500 miles on a 44' custom built ferro-cement,
pilot house ketch, on a delivery crew. Wasn't so bad.


I wasn't impugning ferro-cement, rather just some of the "creations" that
have been fashioned from it. I saw one beautiful f-c boat a few years
back,
but most have been so ugly that they had to sneak up on the ocean to get
wet.

Max

Don't think I would ever trust one if I wasn't present during the
molding process. A continuously wet monolithic and homogeneous mold
operation is an absolute necessity and probably rarely occurs.
However, if done right, I'm led to believe that they get stronger
every year they are in the water.

You have more faith in f-c than I. I'd never go offshore in one, despite
knowing it was built properly and by a pro. I just don't think it's a
reasonable building material, despite what some aficionados claim.

Well, from an engineering POV it's the heaviest commonly encountered
building material for the structural strength. It does work, but IMO
the boat needs to be pretty big & heavy displacement to overcome the
inadequacies of the parent material.

The trap people fell into was the snake oil sales pitch that you'd end
up with a cheap boat. Wrong, you ended up with a cheap hull and only
then if you put a zero dollar price on the labour that went into it.

I might buy one, if the price was right, but my valuation would be the
residual value of the installed equipment minus the cost of hull
disposal.

Funnily enough, a 30 y/o f/c hull with no sign of rust bleed etc is
probably fine for a long time, provided you don't crack the shell & get
water into the wire armature. Friend of mine bought one that had been
pro built some years ago, for coastal sailing, cheap. So far he's had 5
years out of it without problems.

PDW

A new friend...
 

However, if done right, I'm led to believe that they get stronger
every year they are in the water.


In theory, yes.

You have more faith in f-c than I. I'd never go offshore in one, despite
knowing it was built properly and by a pro. I just don't think it's a
reasonable building material, despite what some aficionados claim.


It's reasonable. It just has a number of problems. All boats
are a compromise.


Peter wrote:
Well, from an engineering POV it's the heaviest commonly encountered
building material for the structural strength.

Hmm, that depends. It's tremendously strong in compression.
The problem is that boat hulls are not in pure compression.

... It does work, but IMO
the boat needs to be pretty big & heavy displacement to overcome the
inadequacies of the parent material.


Definitely. Nobody ever built a light boat from ferro-cement.

The trap people fell into was the snake oil sales pitch that you'd end
up with a cheap boat. Wrong, you ended up with a cheap hull and only
then if you put a zero dollar price on the labour that went into it.


Yep, most people who have stars in their eyes about building
a boat refuse to believe the advice that says the bare hull
is only 20% of the labor and less than 10% of the cost. Most
ferro-cement boats (and of any other material FWIW)
remain uncompleted botches and are eventually chainsawed &
landfilled. Or else they are turned upside-down, a door is
cut thru the side, and they become storage for garden tools
for whoever buys the house from the widow of the builder.


I might buy one, if the price was right, but my valuation would be the
residual value of the installed equipment minus the cost of hull
disposal.


Excellent plan.

Funnily enough, a 30 y/o f/c hull with no sign of rust bleed etc is
probably fine for a long time, provided you don't crack the shell & get
water into the wire armature.

You can also ultrasound the hull. One of the problems of
ferro-cement is that it has very poor impact resistance, and
any cracking of the shell leads to total failure. Bad idea.

I've wondered if it would be possible to sheath a f-c hull
in a thin layer of fiberglass... maybe using dynel cloth? to
improve the odds on this.

Once the hull starts to show rust bleeding thru (either
outside or in) it's toast.

.... Friend of mine bought one that had been
pro built some years ago, for coastal sailing, cheap. So far he's had 5
years out of it without problems.


Good luck to him.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King