"Reverend Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

Despite the higher pay, the number of people going into nursing is
dropping rapidly.

Do you have anything to back that up?

It's not a secret, RC. Rather common knowledge, actually, but I'm sure some
school figures could be located, if it really matters.

Max

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:10 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:
..

Such programs aren't likely to be reinstituted. Too costly and inefficient,
regardless of the nursing shortage. There are myriad nursing programs
throughout the country, from LPN programs to two and three year AS programs,
and of course the four-year baccalaureate programs. Their enrollments are
all declining, and the candidate pool is declining in quality as well.
Hospitals are stretched too tight financially these days to reinstitute such
programs.

Max



Waiting list with competitive entry at my local community college. At
least there was in '04.

I believe my sister RN (MSN) who is a nursing instructor at the MS
Gulf Coast Community College said there is a waiting list down there,
although that may have changed because of Katrina.

Frank

Taking my advise on the MOB Pole I see.... and to think you scoffed at
my
suggestion at first!


Where did I scoff at a MOB pole??? I bought one before tha boat even
got to NY.

RB
35s5
NY

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reverend Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

Despite the higher pay, the number of people going into nursing is
dropping rapidly.

Do you have anything to back that up?

It's not a secret, RC. Rather common knowledge, actually, but I'm sure
some school figures could be located, if it really matters.

I seriously doubt that the number of people going into nursing are dropping
rapidly or dropping at all. I'd like to see the figures. Here's some from
NY:

http://www.op.nysed.gov/nursecounts.htm

From 2001 -2005: a 35% increase in RN license issued, a 41% increase in LPN
licenses issued and a 21% drop in nurse practitioners.

Overall, a net increase in the number of nursing licenses issued.

As I said, facts+logic wins every time.

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Where did I scoff at a MOB pole??? I bought one before tha boat even
got to NY.

Same Place you got your "Safety Speargun"????

I know you've never used an MOB pole since you never had one on any of your
other boats... but have you ever used your speargun??

Now ... every once in a while I have to Talk-Down to you so you understand
things.... this is one of those times. Don't be upset... it's for your own
good.

The capability to effectively retrieve an MOB is soley dependent on a
properly equipped vessel with well rehearsed protocols.

To date you have neither....

CM-

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reverend Crantz" wrote in message
. ..


Brilliant insight. A good number of people are going into nursing today
because of the relatively high pay.

That's hardly a brilliant insight.

But it is great sarcasm.

Nurses rank among the most underpaid professionals, and they always have.
In 1906, nurses earned about 1/3 of the income of the average physician.
What is that ratio now? I'm guessing it's closer to 1/6 on average, based
upon family practitioners, not specialists or subspecialists, where it
could be as low as 1/20 or more.

What do doctors (GP's) earn? What does a nurse earn?

I think the most underpaid and overworked professionals are teachers and
accountants.



When there are enough nurses pay will decrease.

There never will be "enough nurses." The shortage is exacerbating and has
been for decades. Adequate staffing for my wife's unit is her chief
administrative problem.

There are always enough nurses at the right price. For decades there has
been an engineer shortage, even during the massive layoffs.



Why is there such a nurse "shortage"? Previously causes were bad working
conditions, lousy pay and long hours. Nurses left the field in droves. Do
you think it will be any different this time around?

Nope. The hours are the worst feature--most nurses work weekends, nights
or evenings, and they are required to work double shifts if called upon to
do so due to weather or sufficient call-offs.

They get paid for that double shift or comp time - right? In aerospace
double shift means unpaid overtime. It's not unheard of 80 hour weeks for
months on end.

The pay is not commensurate with the level of education or the
responsibility assumed.

Yes it is, the people are willing to work for it. Pay (reward) should be
proportional to the risk assumed.


And the burnout rate
is exacerbating. Too many young women enter nursing with unrealistic
expectations, only to leave a few years later for better hours with less
responsibility and stress.

Same reason people quit being lawyers, accountants, doctors (high suicide
rate too), engineers, etc. Guess what - the only ones that can handle the
rat race are the rats.

The health of the general population would be much better if they shed their
high stress jobs. Most illness stem from the workplace and the lifestyle it
induces.



Max

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message

What do doctors (GP's) earn?

Depends upon locale and demographics. In cities with high demand for good
GPs, they can earn half a million (net) easily. In rural America they might
struggle five or six days a week for $150K.

What does a nurse earn?

Again it depends. In underserved cities with great demand, they can receive
a $25K sign-on bonus and with evening or night differential earn $100K per
year. In most places the average staff nurse on a med-surg flood makes
about $50K per year. A Clincal Nurse Specialist in ICU generally will earn
around $75K to $100K per year. A busy nurse anesthetist can earn $300K per
year, especially if he/she is willing to travel.

I think the most underpaid and overworked professionals are teachers and
accountants.

No one dies if they screw up. They may be overworked and underpaid, but the
responsibility factor just isn't the same as in health care.


There are always enough nurses at the right price.

You should know that money is not the prime motivator in today's workforce.
Hours, time off, and job satisfaction are greater motivators. Money is
important, but it's consistently #4 or #5 on people's lists.

They get paid for that double shift or comp time - right?

Of course. In some cases they get time and a half, or even double time pay.
But most nurses, excepting those with huge financial burdens, would rather
have the time off with family.

Yes it is, the people are willing to work for it. Pay (reward) should be
proportional to the risk assumed.

It should be, yes.

Same reason people quit being lawyers, accountants, doctors (high suicide
rate too), engineers, etc. Guess what - the only ones that can handle the
rat race are the rats.

The health of the general population would be much better if they shed
their high stress jobs. Most illness stem from the workplace and the
lifestyle it induces.

I can't argue with that, primarily because I don't have data to support or
deny. But it wouldn't surprise me. That said, most jobs have a high-stress
component. Few don't. Add McDonald's lunches, excessive drinking after
work, and a lack of exercise, and we've got a populace on the verge of
mental or physical catastrophe, save for one particularly stressful episode.

Max

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:23:10 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote:
.

Such programs aren't likely to be reinstituted. Too costly and
inefficient,
regardless of the nursing shortage. There are myriad nursing programs
throughout the country, from LPN programs to two and three year AS
programs,
and of course the four-year baccalaureate programs. Their enrollments are
all declining, and the candidate pool is declining in quality as well.
Hospitals are stretched too tight financially these days to reinstitute
such
programs.

Max



Waiting list with competitive entry at my local community college. At
least there was in '04.

I believe my sister RN (MSN) who is a nursing instructor at the MS
Gulf Coast Community College said there is a waiting list down there,
although that may have changed because of Katrina.

No doubt there are exceptions to every generality. But the fact remains
that nursing in general is underserved by incoming personnel, and overserved
by outgoing nurses who just throw in the towel.

Max

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 27 Jul 2006 06:00:40 -0700, "Capt. Rob"
scribbled thusly:
Suzanne's pay is over 70K and that's not even with the whole package.


Nurses have almost traditionally been underpaid.

Bubbles wife is a classic example of that. $70K in NYC is low pay.

Max

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Reverend Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

Despite the higher pay, the number of people going into nursing is
dropping rapidly.

Do you have anything to back that up?

It's not a secret, RC. Rather common knowledge, actually, but I'm sure
some school figures could be located, if it really matters.

I seriously doubt that the number of people going into nursing are
dropping rapidly or dropping at all. I'd like to see the figures. Here's
some from NY:

http://www.op.nysed.gov/nursecounts.htm

From 2001 -2005: a 35% increase in RN license issued, a 41% increase in
LPN licenses issued and a 21% drop in nurse practitioners.

Overall, a net increase in the number of nursing licenses issued.

As I said, facts+logic wins every time.

It does only if you eliminate the statistics that defeat your argument,
specifically the attrition of burned-out nurses and those who leave to raise
a family or take other work. Factor in that and you'll have a different
picture. Fact: much is done to attract nurses to jobs (sign-on bonuses,
desirable shift choices, etc.) while almost nothing is done to retain
experienced nurses.

Max