Frank Boettcher wrote:
Nothing is out of the question, however, still leaning toward a
Precision 23 or 21.

And I'm not trying to talk you out of that, just pointing
out other options. They're certainly among the best built
boats in that size/type category.

... Like the idea of encased lead ballast (however,
not the idea of towing it around).


Me too. The thought of buying a bigger tow vehicle & paying
for the gas to drive it around really made me think about
ways around the problem.


Spent a lot of time on the trailer sailor forums (lot of helpful
people there) asking questions and getting opinions and ideas.

Yep. I was a regular there for years, IMHO it's changed a
bit for the worse since it became a for-profit site. Still
one of the best laces to check in to find out about specific
boats.


... Came
to the conclusion that a P-23 or anything in its class is more of a
"launch, arrange for some temp dockage and leave it in an area that
you can come back to for a number of weeks at a time or the good part
of a season" Or launch, sail for a week or so then pull it but leave
it in the area, dry. It is not a drive to the lake, go through the
trouble of launching and retrieving for a couple of hours sailing.


Agreed... and this can be a nice way to use the boat,
particularly if you already have the locations. OTOH it
leaves you with more of the worst of both worlds... you
still have to do trailer maintenance, the boat is far from
home much of the time instead of in the driveway, it needs
anitfoulding & zincs etc etc.




I've also looked with interest at Seaward 26RK (interesting keel
config, but a might too heavy to be hauling around. Also somewhat
pricey)

IMHO the Seaward line is not as well built as they like to
pretend, and they employ the most mendacious salespeople I
have seen outside a used car lot. I tend to not like the
cutesy faux-Cape Cod styling melded to modern (sort-of)
hulls & rigs; they cut a lot of corners. Do yourself a favor
and spend an hour or so looking over (and/or sailing) a
Seaward and then the same on a comparable model Precision.



.... and several used Starwinds.


Bsically the same boat as the Precision line.

P-23 with a 231 (210 with spinaker) PHRF is a fair performer, for its
size, relatively speaking.

Relatively... my only aspersion on the Precisions is that
they look fast but are only slightly above average
performance... and that only when compared to the
mass-market boats. There are a lot of boats in the size
range that will sail rings around them, and not give up much
(if anything) in the way of comfort or structure. Might be
harder to find though.

Have you checked out a Beneteau 235 or 211? I happen to like
the flush-deck 21 footer and it's surprisingly roomy inside.


... It is also the most stable, and probably
the best built of those that I've researched. Walking on the cabin
trunk roof and foredeck had the same solid feel as my Columbia 8.7 and
far less deflection than my Columbia 24 challenger.


Right on- they are quite well built & solid.

Been on the back burner lately, been drawing up plans to double the
size of my wood shop. I'm afraid if I buy a boat now, I'll fall all
over it fitting it out and lose focus on the shop.

And what would be bad about that?

... And I need the
shop to support some part time work.

Oh

Is this the "semi" part of semi-retirement? I find it much
more lucrative to keep punching the clock for the same
people I worked for before, only less often for more money.
I got an offer to work on somebody's boat (a similar project
to one I completed on ours) and ended up agreeing with the
owner that he really couldn't afford me.

... But if the right deal came
along......


The "deal of a lifetime" comes around about once a week. I'm
keeping my eyes peeled!

DSK

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:19:33 -0400, DSK wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:



... Came
to the conclusion that a P-23 or anything in its class is more of a
"launch, arrange for some temp dockage and leave it in an area that
you can come back to for a number of weeks at a time or the good part
of a season" Or launch, sail for a week or so then pull it but leave
it in the area, dry. It is not a drive to the lake, go through the
trouble of launching and retrieving for a couple of hours sailing.


Agreed... and this can be a nice way to use the boat,
particularly if you already have the locations. OTOH it
leaves you with more of the worst of both worlds... you
still have to do trailer maintenance, the boat is far from
home much of the time instead of in the driveway, it needs
anitfoulding & zincs etc etc.

Ture, but net total cost of ownership not as bad. It can still winter
at home and most of the off season maintenance can be done at that
time. Including bottom painting if you can believe the folks on the
forum (some fairly clever ways to get to everything while still almost
on the trailer).

Remembering what I paid for dockage, haul out and other maintenance,
insurance and upgrades on my in the water boats and comparing it, the
trailerable is still favorable by a bunch. Plus the yearly running
from hurricanes.

And if I want to sail Southwest Florida this year, The Upper gulf
next, the Keys one winter, Kentucky lake one fall, Do a Tenn Tom trip,
watever, I'm not faced with a lengthy water trip just to get to the
starting point.

At least that is how I've built it up in my mind.

BTW zincs? with no metal in the water?




I've also looked with interest at Seaward 26RK (interesting keel
config, but a might too heavy to be hauling around. Also somewhat
pricey)

IMHO the Seaward line is not as well built as they like to
pretend, and they employ the most mendacious salespeople I
have seen outside a used car lot........

I actually wouldn't know since they did not even return my email
asking for a displacement number on a particular configuration.







Have you checked out a Beneteau 235 or 211? I happen to like
the flush-deck 21 footer and it's surprisingly roomy inside.

Haven't yet; probably will in this quest.




Is this the "semi" part of semi-retirement?

Yes, but woodworking is also a passion so if it is possible to
supplement pensions, and investment income by doing what I like, I can
see no reason not to head in that direction. The trick is to keep it
from becoming a "job".

I find it much
more lucrative to keep punching the clock for the same
people I worked for before, only less often for more money.


I ran a fair sized manufacturing operation. There is no part time
option. While I enjoyed it for the most part, it was 60-70 hours a
week of high pressure. I'll stick to messing around in the wood shop.



... But if the right deal came
along......


The "deal of a lifetime" comes around about once a week. I'm
keeping my eyes peeled!

DSK

... you
still have to do trailer maintenance, the boat is far from
home much of the time instead of in the driveway, it needs
anitfoulding & zincs etc etc.


Frank Boettcher wrote:
Ture, but net total cost of ownership not as bad.

Agreed... but then, it's a smaller boat. The expense of both
types can be plotted on a curve, the point of max benefit
per buck is a matter of personal taste. I know some people
who trailer 35 footers, at which point it costs FAR more
than keeping it in a slip... but it's worth it to them.

.... It can still winter
at home and most of the off season maintenance can be done at that
time. Including bottom painting if you can believe the folks on the
forum (some fairly clever ways to get to everything while still almost
on the trailer).


heh heh it'd be interesting to hear your opinion on that
after one session crawling around under the boat with a
brush & paint can. The best way to do this is to get a lift!


Remembering what I paid for dockage, haul out and other maintenance,
insurance and upgrades on my in the water boats and comparing it, the
trailerable is still favorable by a bunch. Plus the yearly running
from hurricanes.


Bingo- that's why I'm primarily interested ina trailerable
for the next boat, we're planning on being gone on the
tugboat much of the coming years.


And if I want to sail Southwest Florida this year, The Upper gulf
next, the Keys one winter, Kentucky lake one fall, Do a Tenn Tom trip,
watever, I'm not faced with a lengthy water trip just to get to the
starting point.

At least that is how I've built it up in my mind.


Yes, it really does work that way. That's how we cruised
from Cape Cod to Georgia (along with many inland rivers &
lakes) while working full time. Of course, highway travel
has it's own issues, and gas ain't gonna get any cheaper
over the next few years. But time is the most valuable
commodity.


BTW zincs? with no metal in the water?


Hah! Don't buy that propaganda! What about the centerboard
gear? There is sure to be at least a few small metal items
in the water on *any* boat, and if it sits in the water for
any appreciable time, they should be protected by a zinc.
Unless you want to study the effect of galvanic corrosion on
MTBF rates.


I've also looked with interest at Seaward 26RK (interesting keel
config, but a might too heavy to be hauling around. Also somewhat
pricey)



http://www.newboats.com/product.jsp?ID=75250

If the all-up weight is stated to be 3800# then the
trailering weight is likely to be north of 5k.

They are a bit on the expensive side. The lifting bulb keel
is really not that unusual, in fact it's pretty common (in
Australia for example) and very effective. In the US they
are less common because everybody is trying to copy a
Catalina 22.




Yes, but woodworking is also a passion so if it is possible to
supplement pensions, and investment income by doing what I like, I can
see no reason not to head in that direction. The trick is to keep it
from becoming a "job".


That's a matter of personal attitude, and a willingness to
turn down work when you have something else you'd rather do.
A lot of people never get there.

I really enjoy building & fixing things... I'm lucky to be
able to make money doing it, and will continue as long as
physically and mentally able. However I will not miss the
pressure of deadlines, trying "manage" minimally competent
boneheads who are motivated only to the extent of their
paycheck (and whine about the size of it), clients who feel
privileged to act like jerks, clients who feel that payment
is optional, answering the phone every 5 minutes, etc etc etc.

It's a wonder anybody ever gets any actual work done.

DSK