Doug,

Your advice is quite sensible. However, the slow, dimwitted, ignorant or
those with thin sensibilities are spared. My comments interspersed below
show how I need to make my point only once.

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
wrote:
However, yesterday we went sailing on the S2 with another family. I
asked them to sail with us because this friend had remarked that his
small son wanted to try sailing. They arrived at the dock with a 12 yr
old daughter, a 9 year old son, and a 18 month old and the two of them.

How much for the little girls? Remember Jake and Elwood!


Was this a surprise or did you know you were going to get such a crowd?


I thought, "OK, we sail back and forth under main alone and finally one
of em gets seasick so we come in". It was slightly choppyand about 14
kts and I got the main up in spite of the crowd.

Exhaust fumes in enclosed spaces work much faster. You won't have to leave
the dock.


Now here is your first mistake. You have mistaken the goal of getting sail
set & the boat into a certain mode (possibly to a certain area). Wrong
approach, the goal is to have fun.

Everyone wants to have fun! Blah! Sailing is for suffering and character
building! Amusement parks are for fun. There is no fun or thrills in
sailing!



Start out at the dock by taking them on a tour of the boat. Show them the
ropes, quite literally!

Show them rope burn!

And as much of the
other stuff as their patience seems likely to take in... don't bore them
silly before setting out.

Issue orders!

This is a good
time to set some safety rules too, and to make the point to the parents
that *they* will have to keep an eye on the ones too little to take care
of themselves.

Tell them tales of doom and horror stories. Remember driver's ed and metal
shop safety films.

It will also give the
older ones a chance to feel grown up and be responsible for themselves.

If they're not already grown up they're not going on my boat!



.... The kids mostly
stayed down below at first and out of the way. My own family makes me
crazy when we sail so I was nervous about somebody elses. Sure enough,
the kids finally all wanted to sit on the bow. This was all I needed,
trying to sail while I watched a bunch of other kids. I insisted they
all wear life jackets when out of the cabin

That's a very sensible precaution.

Screw life jackets. Issue lead diver's weights. That will get them thinking!


... AND that they all tie in
when outside the cockpit.

In the absence of proper harnesses & jacklines, I don't know if this is
such a good idea.

Tie them directly to the mast.


But if you are so paranoid about one going over the side, do a
man-overboard drill with a volunteer... one of the bigger kids, or one of
the parents (kids LOVE this).

Show them what propellers do to manatees.




.... Of course, my wife couldnt figger out how to
tie em in so I had to leave the tiller to her while I did it and she
gets so busy talking the boat wanders all ovetr the bay. With the main
flapping like crazy I finally regained the tiller. At least the dad
decided to stay on the bow with em. Still, I was nervous as i could
possibly be.

Sounds to me like you don't really have control of yourself, which makes
it difficult to be in control of the situation.

Control or confidence?



One way to get a grip on this is to think two jumps ahead, and do
everything slowly, explaining what is happening and what everybody should
do, as it happens. This gets people involved in sailing the boat. I bet
you were leaping around the boat like a jackrabbit, and to the others your
behavior was unpredictable and unpleasant even if you were not cussing at
them.

I keep ice tea in a Jack Daniels quart bottle. I chug it before starting
out. The guests think it's booze. They are all scared.




My wife realizing we were really going slow decided we had to unroll
the RF jib so I insisted the kids leave the bow cuz I just knew someone
would get hit by the clips on the jibsheets.

So why the heck do you have clips on the jibsheets?

To hit kids. I have a small kayak anchor tied to the jibsheet. Gelcoat takes
a beating, but so do guests.



.... So this meant they could
play in the V-berth and stand in the forward hatch.

This was one of the favorite things for our nieces and nephews to do when
they were small.

Lesson: Leave the bees that nest in the forward compartment alone. They are
your friends.



... Unfortunately, it
meant three adults and a baby in the cockpit, waaaaaaaay crowded. I
can almost not sail under such conditions. Every time I tacked I had
to ask the wife holding the baby to move and was constantly stepping
over someone. My cockpit is large but seems very crowded with just
three adults. How do other people handle this?

Can't you steer from the low side? Why neurotically demand that everybody
move all the time, if all you have to do is steer? Better yet, why don't
you park yourself elsewhere and let somebody else steer?

Good advice. Let someone else steer while you guzzle a second quart of "Jack
Daniels" ice tea.




Next. they all wanted the bimini up. Sure, its sunny, being June in
Florida, but I really want to be able to see my sail and hate the
bimini for this reason but up it went. Do other people dislike their
bimini for this reason?

Yes and I always feel the windage is dragging the boat backwards. However
when the sun is blazing, that takes priority. Why not furl the main and
sail with just the jib, which is a lot less critical... also it helps
develop the ability to sail by feel.

No bimini = skin cancer. If you want to look like a quilt with all the
chunks of skin cut out of you by all means, no bimini.




Finally, the mom goes below to nurse the little one so I can finally
really sail. I get on a good point of sail and even with only a
partially unfurled jib she digs in, heels over and starts charging
across the bay. It feels wonderful. The Clino says 20 degrees and I
ease off to get a little more speed and she heels more. Crash, slide,
uh-oh, their baby stuff slides across the cabin and mom on the downhill
settee looks concerned so I ease off.

Did you explain to her (or anyone) what was going to happen? One of the
things that landlubbers find the most scary about boats is that ALL OF A
SUDDEN the sail comes crashing over, the boat leans, water surges up over
the rail, etc etc. They can't tell if it is supposed to be part of the
fun, or if the boat is sinking.

Yell, "We are sinking! We are doomed!"



Another thing, when you tell the crew exactly what is going to happen, and
it does, then they have a great deal more confidence in your ability.

That spoils the fun. I say go for a third quart of ice tea.



The wind picks up a little more, the beginnings of Alberto hundresds of
miles away and the chop is a little more. The 9 year old son sits in
the cockpit corner with that look that says SEASICK, a perfect
opportunity to go in.
So, you'd think a 28' boat would be large enough for company but three
adults and a baby int he cockpit is simply waaaaaaay overcrowded. I
cannot imagine that larger boats really have much larger cockpits, it'd
be unsarfe. So, what do people do? Do I decide to not have company
and go back to sailing alone or just with one of my kids?


Yes.
And bigger boats often do have bigger cockpits.
It sounds to me like your boat isn't really set up for company, that you
dislike it yourself, and you are deliberately (or perhaps subconsciously)
driving everybody to hate sailing so you can go back to doing it alone. A
fairly common scenario, actually.

I have an 8 foot cockpit in my fine cruiser. That's room enough for 2. Why
get them to hate sailing? If they like sailing they can sail on someone
else's boat. The key is to get them to hate YOU. Then they never go sailing
with YOU.




katysails wrote:
We use extra people for ballast but when it's little bitties, not much
you can do...
the 12 and 9 year old are certainly within the age of reason to be able
to understand directions...you should have involved them in sailing the
boat...

Exactly.

Exactly the reason to put children back into the labor force.


... next time someone approached you wanting to sail, be direct.
Make sure you ask "It will be you and your son" If more show up, just
be honest nad say, "Sorry, folks, neither me nor my boat is up to this.
There must have been a misunderstanding..."

Exactly. That is how the skipper should take control of the situation
right from the start. Not to be a raging Capt Bligh about it though

Bligh was an excellent sailor and Captain. I tell people I have no boat so
they won't ask and if they think otherwise I tell them I'm a rotten
incompetent sailor. Makes for a spacious cockpit.




wrote:
It was really my mistake, I knew he had kids and rarely does anything
without them.
About your cockpit, seating is not a problem but somebody is always in
front of the winch, etc. You always have to reach over someone to
adjust the mainsheet (it is in the companionway). You dont find
reaching around people to tend sheets to be a hassle?


No, I make them do it. Or else get everybody sitting up on the cabin top
or on the rail.

Rope burn.



The kids on the bow probably was a mistake but otherwise they woulda
been in the cockpit or on cabin top, etc.

What's wrong with them sitting up there?

No one on the cabin top! What a pack of gypsies!


.... Inside for long meant quick
seasickness.. They were tied in with lifejackets on.

The smell of vomit can get a peristaltic chain reaction going. Hurling fake
plastic vomit is enough to get things started.



Lifejackets are good. We have some excellent vest types in several sizes,
when we have kids aboard who have to wear life jackets, I wear one too.
Makes it seem less like punishment to them.

I carry only 2 lifejaCKETS. no more. The rest are diver's weights.


We have had non-sailing company for short trips many times, including
storms.... one time some friends from work who were surprisingly clumsy
and paranoid about the water, don't know why they said they wanted to go
sailing. I spent a great deal of time showing them that the boat was well
ballasted and would not tip over, how to control the sails with the
various lines, where was a good place to sit, etc etc. For example, I told
them in advance that the sailing of the boat took precedence over
conversation and that I would have to interrupt them. I told them when we
were going to tack that the boat was going to lean over the other way. Etc
etc etc. It was rather tiring for me.

Life is too important to waste.



We didn't spend much time sailing and of course we got hit with a real bad
thunderstorm. I sent everybody below to play cards while I sailed the boat
under a small corner of the jib so that we'd be closer to the home dock
when the storm was over.

Give them bailing buckets and tell them about lightning.


The main advice I can give you is to be more flexible in the way you go
about things, consider the goal. Most importantly don't let circumstances
drive you, you must think ahead, be in control, and drive the situation.

Control begins with who you let aboard. Fear and pain are great motivators,
understood by all lifeforms.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King