too crowded
 

Bob Crantz wrote:

Doug,

Your advice is quite sensible.

Thank you.

... However, the slow, dimwitted, ignorant or
those with thin sensibilities are spared. My comments interspersed below
show how I need to make my point only once.


If you don't care if anybody else benefits from your advice
(and I don't particularly, myself), you don't need to make
it even once. I figure my lifetime average is somewhere
around .343 ;)





I thought, "OK, we sail back and forth under main alone and finally one
of em gets seasick so we come in". It was slightly choppyand about 14
kts and I got the main up in spite of the crowd.


Exhaust fumes in enclosed spaces work much faster. You won't have to leave
the dock.


Are you trying to become a singlehander just for the
afternoon, or permanently? Leads to another thought... some
people make guests sign waivers before going for a sail, how
about slipping in some life-insurance forms with the stack
of paperwork?



Now here is your first mistake. You have mistaken the goal of getting sail
set & the boat into a certain mode (possibly to a certain area). Wrong
approach, the goal is to have fun.


Everyone wants to have fun! Blah! Sailing is for suffering and character
building! Amusement parks are for fun. There is no fun or thrills in
sailing!


Yes there is... all kinds... sadism, masochism, you name
it... fun for all!




Start out at the dock by taking them on a tour of the boat. Show them the
ropes, quite literally!


Show them rope burn!


Best way to make 'em learn. Pain is natures way of saying
"Pay attention, dammit!"

Remember how Harvey was taught the ropes in 'Captains
Courageous.'




.... This is a good
time to set some safety rules too, and to make the point to the parents
that *they* will have to keep an eye on the ones too little to take care
of themselves.


Tell them tales of doom and horror stories. Remember driver's ed and metal
shop safety films.


You're right about that.



.... . Sure enough,
the kids finally all wanted to sit on the bow. This was all I needed,
trying to sail while I watched a bunch of other kids. I insisted they
all wear life jackets when out of the cabin

That's a very sensible precaution.


Screw life jackets. Issue lead diver's weights. That will get them thinking!


Expensive. Just tie a brick around their necks.




One way to get a grip on this is to think two jumps ahead, and do
everything slowly, explaining what is happening and what everybody should
do, as it happens. This gets people involved in sailing the boat. I bet
you were leaping around the boat like a jackrabbit, and to the others your
behavior was unpredictable and unpleasant even if you were not cussing at
them.


I keep ice tea in a Jack Daniels quart bottle. I chug it before starting
out. The guests think it's booze. They are all scared.


I love that idea! Another way to communicate clearly to your
guests that they are having a great time is to let them know
just how badly you could be treating them. In general I
don't cuss people out, but once in while they deserve it.




My wife realizing we were really going slow decided we had to unroll
the RF jib so I insisted the kids leave the bow cuz I just knew someone
would get hit by the clips on the jibsheets.

So why the heck do you have clips on the jibsheets?


To hit kids. I have a small kayak anchor tied to the jibsheet. Gelcoat takes
a beating, but so do guests.


More unnecessary expense. Tie a brick to that, too.



.... So this meant they could
play in the V-berth and stand in the forward hatch.

This was one of the favorite things for our nieces and nephews to do when
they were small.


Lesson: Leave the bees that nest in the forward compartment alone. They are
your friends.


And they make it far more likely that you'll get a
volunteer... or several... for that man-overboard drill!



It sounds to me like your boat isn't really set up for company, that you
dislike it yourself, and you are deliberately (or perhaps subconsciously)
driving everybody to hate sailing so you can go back to doing it alone. A
fairly common scenario, actually.


I have an 8 foot cockpit in my fine cruiser. That's room enough for 2. Why
get them to hate sailing? If they like sailing they can sail on someone
else's boat. The key is to get them to hate YOU. Then they never go sailing
with YOU.


And they never come to pester you at your house or shop either.

Frankly, having friends is over rated. I've had lots of
friends and at one time or another, every darn one of them
has either borrowed something off me, or made me help them
move (or both).


Exactly. That is how the skipper should take control of the situation
right from the start. Not to be a raging Capt Bligh about it though


Bligh was an excellent sailor and Captain.

He was a great sailor and the finest navigator of his
generation, but he wasn't a particularly good captain over
all. But most people think of Bligh as an overbearing
martinet, which is the sense in which I used the word.


.... I tell people I have no boat so
they won't ask and if they think otherwise I tell them I'm a rotten
incompetent sailor. Makes for a spacious cockpit.


That's one reason why I got a motorboat.



Control begins with who you let aboard. Fear and pain are great motivators,
understood by all lifeforms.

Absolutely!

DSK

too crowded
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Bob Crantz wrote:

Doug,

Your advice is quite sensible.

Thank you.


You are welcome.

... However, the slow, dimwitted, ignorant or those with thin
sensibilities are spared. My comments interspersed below show how I need
to make my point only once.


If you don't care if anybody else benefits from your advice (and I don't
particularly, myself), you don't need to make it even once. I figure my
lifetime average is somewhere around .343 ;)


I think you are doing better than that. There are a number of people who
listen and benefit from what you say and it is never acknowledged.






I thought, "OK, we sail back and forth under main alone and finally
one
of em gets seasick so we come in". It was slightly choppyand about 14
kts and I got the main up in spite of the crowd.


Exhaust fumes in enclosed spaces work much faster. You won't have to
leave the dock.


Are you trying to become a singlehander just for the afternoon, or
permanently?

That is a secondary benefit. The primary benefit is getting rid of in laws
and rotten kids.

Leads to another thought... some
people make guests sign waivers before going for a sail, how about
slipping in some life-insurance forms with the stack of paperwork?

Great idea!! Make myself beneficiary of the life insurance!




Now here is your first mistake. You have mistaken the goal of getting
sail set & the boat into a certain mode (possibly to a certain area).
Wrong approach, the goal is to have fun.


Everyone wants to have fun! Blah! Sailing is for suffering and character
building! Amusement parks are for fun. There is no fun or thrills in
sailing!


Yes there is... all kinds... sadism, masochism, you name it... fun for
all!



Remember, it is called "character building".



Start out at the dock by taking them on a tour of the boat. Show them the
ropes, quite literally!


Show them rope burn!


Best way to make 'em learn. Pain is natures way of saying "Pay attention,
dammit!"

Remember how Harvey was taught the ropes in 'Captains Courageous.'



Amen!



.... This is a good
time to set some safety rules too, and to make the point to the parents
that *they* will have to keep an eye on the ones too little to take care
of themselves.


Tell them tales of doom and horror stories. Remember driver's ed and
metal shop safety films.


You're right about that.

Fear works!




.... . Sure enough,
the kids finally all wanted to sit on the bow. This was all I needed,
trying to sail while I watched a bunch of other kids. I insisted they
all wear life jackets when out of the cabin

That's a very sensible precaution.


Screw life jackets. Issue lead diver's weights. That will get them
thinking!


Expensive. Just tie a brick around their necks.

Brilliant!





One way to get a grip on this is to think two jumps ahead, and do
everything slowly, explaining what is happening and what everybody should
do, as it happens. This gets people involved in sailing the boat. I bet
you were leaping around the boat like a jackrabbit, and to the others
your behavior was unpredictable and unpleasant even if you were not
cussing at them.


I keep ice tea in a Jack Daniels quart bottle. I chug it before starting
out. The guests think it's booze. They are all scared.


I love that idea! Another way to communicate clearly to your guests that
they are having a great time is to let them know just how badly you could
be treating them. In general I don't cuss people out, but once in while
they deserve it.


More brilliance!





My wife realizing we were really going slow decided we had to unroll
the RF jib so I insisted the kids leave the bow cuz I just knew
someone
would get hit by the clips on the jibsheets.

So why the heck do you have clips on the jibsheets?


To hit kids. I have a small kayak anchor tied to the jibsheet. Gelcoat
takes a beating, but so do guests.


More unnecessary expense. Tie a brick to that, too.


Such economy!




.... So this meant they could
play in the V-berth and stand in the forward hatch.

This was one of the favorite things for our nieces and nephews to do when
they were small.


Lesson: Leave the bees that nest in the forward compartment alone. They
are your friends.


And they make it far more likely that you'll get a volunteer... or
several... for that man-overboard drill!


A benefit I never even thought of!




It sounds to me like your boat isn't really set up for company, that you
dislike it yourself, and you are deliberately (or perhaps subconsciously)
driving everybody to hate sailing so you can go back to doing it alone. A
fairly common scenario, actually.


I have an 8 foot cockpit in my fine cruiser. That's room enough for 2.
Why get them to hate sailing? If they like sailing they can sail on
someone else's boat. The key is to get them to hate YOU. Then they never
go sailing with YOU.


And they never come to pester you at your house or shop either.

Yes!


Frankly, having friends is over rated. I've had lots of friends and at one
time or another, every darn one of them has either borrowed something off
me, or made me help them move (or both).


Money is better than friends. With enough money you can have all the friends
you want.



Exactly. That is how the skipper should take control of the situation
right from the start. Not to be a raging Capt Bligh about it though


Bligh was an excellent sailor and Captain.

He was a great sailor and the finest navigator of his generation, but he
wasn't a particularly good captain over all. But most people think of
Bligh as an overbearing martinet, which is the sense in which I used the
word.

He may have had poor people skills but he was a sharp dresser!




.... I tell people I have no boat so they won't ask and if they think
otherwise I tell them I'm a rotten incompetent sailor. Makes for a
spacious cockpit.


That's one reason why I got a motorboat.

It really ****es RB off, doesn't it? Plus the fact you enjoy it and aren't
apologetic at all - hahaha on RB!




Control begins with who you let aboard. Fear and pain are great
motivators, understood by all lifeforms.

Absolutely!

We should open a sailing and charm school. We'd be world famous!



DSK

too crowded
 

On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:15:37 -0400, katy
wrote:

Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 12 Jun 2006 13:42:25 -0700, wrote:

snipped all that stuff

I had nine on my Columbia 8.7, four adults and five kids ranging in
age from 5-12 years old for one trip, with me the only individual on
the boat that knew how to sail. Coming back from Ship Island about
five miles to go encountered one of those August afternoon upper gulf
black squalls. What a nightmare. The extra crew was my Sister's
family. To this day, she has never stepped foot on another boat.

Hey have you ever crossed the big bend area down to Suwannee,
Steinhatchee, and on to Cedar Key. If so, what's it like. Thinking
about doing some Gunkholing in that area, maybe this fall.

Frank

I've been to Cedar Key by land...wow...that's shallow water around
there...

Boat I'm thinking about using is a swing keel with 23" board up draft.
Perfect for gunkholing those areas.

...what
would be fun would be to motor up the Suwannee to where the manatees
play at the State Park with the warm springs.....lots of gators, though....


That's the idea. Not interested in the tourist stuff. Maybe drop the
stick and go up both those rivers as far as one can...I'm more
concerned about the bugs than the 'gators.

too crowded
 

DSK wrote:

Frankly, having friends is over rated. I've had lots of
friends and at one time or another, every darn one of them
has either borrowed something off me, or made me help them
move (or both).

Friends help you move.

Real friends help you move bodies.


--
Capt Scumbalino