How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or
three
inches to spare overhead.

I'm 6'3 and I'm too tall for most compacts. But if you knew something
about driving, you'd also know that even shorter people can have
trouble if their legs are long.


Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because
their
engines

Actually, you have no clue. I drove the Prius for several days and we
got MUCH better MPG locally off highway. Owners know it's more than
slightly better.

My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big
V6


Your contention is hardly a factor. The FACTS are that the Camry does
great MPG, have lower emmisions and is part of a improving curve of
higher MPG cars that don't sacrifice drivability and comfort.


To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible
vehicles by
2012.

And I think warp drive should also be installed. But here on planet
Earth we won't have any such thing. Meanwhile, at least some of us can
opt to spend less on fuel today.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or
three
inches to spare overhead.

I'm 6'3 and I'm too tall for most compacts. But if you knew something
about driving, you'd also know that even shorter people can have
trouble if their legs are long.

I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years. Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?" But to respond to your
comment, the Yaris has more leg room than you'd probably need. With the
seat all the way back, I'm quite comfortable with my 32" inseam. But I'll
grant that you are probably too, um, sizeable for a Yaris.


Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because
their
engines

Actually, you have no clue. I drove the Prius for several days and we
got MUCH better MPG locally off highway. Owners know it's more than
slightly better.

You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average, the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs. highway
driving. That is according to Toyota and Honda literature, as well as
findings by the automotive press.

My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big
V6


Your contention is hardly a factor. The FACTS are that the Camry does
great MPG, have lower emmisions and is part of a improving curve of
higher MPG cars that don't sacrifice drivability and comfort.


To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible
vehicles by
2012.

And I think warp drive should also be installed. But here on planet
Earth we won't have any such thing. Meanwhile, at least some of us can
opt to spend less on fuel today.

Brazil is almost completely E-85 now, and has ceased importing foreign oil.
You should read the paper or watch TV a little more before opening mouth and
inserting foot. Oh wait, that wasn't your foot, was it. g

Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If not, you
should be ashamed.

Max

You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average,
the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs.
highway
driving.


Wrong again. We drove the car in PA. Locally, away from Route 80 we had
nearly 10 MPG more, which is consistant with other reports on Edmunds.

Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If
not, you
should be ashamed.


Judging by her light air ability demonstrated Sunday, that engine will
barely be used at all.


I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years.
Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?"

Wow, and yet you still get so much wrong. Just goes to prove: Old
knowledge is often bad knowledge.



RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average,
the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs.
highway
driving.


Wrong again. We drove the car in PA. Locally, away from Route 80 we had
nearly 10 MPG more, which is consistant with other reports on Edmunds.

I'll trust the other automotive magazines I've read over your experience.
And since I haven't read Edmund's reports on hybrids . . .


Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If
not, you
should be ashamed.


Judging by her light air ability demonstrated Sunday, that engine will
barely be used at all.

Since she'll seldom leave the dock, I concur.



I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years.
Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?"

Wow, and yet you still get so much wrong. Just goes to prove: Old
knowledge is often bad knowledge.

Wrong by your standards is probably right by everyone else's.


Max

I'll trust the other automotive magazines I've read over your
experience.
And since I haven't read Edmund's reports on hybrids . . .


More evidence that you can't even research properly. Edmunds has owner
forums and you can read what people are truly getting from a car in a
variety of locations. Magazine tests are too limited on their own to
judge something like MPG.

Wrong by your standards is probably right by everyone else's

According to Edmunds and the many Hybrid owners posting there, you're
wrong...about all of it.



RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll trust the other automotive magazines I've read over your
experience.
And since I haven't read Edmund's reports on hybrids . . .


More evidence that you can't even research properly. Edmunds has owner
forums and you can read what people are truly getting from a car in a
variety of locations. Magazine tests are too limited on their own to
judge something like MPG.

Are you saying that Consumer Reports is too limited to include owner
surveys? AAMOF, CS has consumer feedback on every car sold in America,
unless it's too new to be valid. Not to mention that magazine tests are
performed by highly experienced individuals whose only job is to perform
such tests and write them up. That would be in contrast to a single
self-proclaimed expert of everything whose unknowledgable opinions are
completely worthless in the overall scheme of things.


Wrong by your standards is probably right by everyone else's

According to Edmunds and the many Hybrid owners posting there, you're
wrong...about all of it.

I'm sure the "many hybrid owners" are more orgasmic about their cars than
about the second coming of Christ. After all they already bought them and
are stuck with an cost-inefficient technology that will be superceded
shortly.

Max

I'm sure the "many hybrid owners" are more orgasmic about their cars
than
about the second coming of Christ. After all they already bought them
and
are stuck with an cost-inefficient technology that will be superceded
shortly.


Plenty of folks give bad reviews to their new cars, Maxi. Just cruise
the Ford or GM forums.
As for Consumer Reports, every auto enthusiast considers them a joke,
even worse than MotorTrend. They're fine if you need help buying a
washing machine. And CR thinks Bose is world class sound. Nuff said.

RB
35s5
NY