Right, but Toyota will get a lot more of it--more than it needs to.
Buy a
Yaris and the bottom line will be less money out of your pocket over
the
long run than with a Prius or especially with the Camry or a Honda
Accord
hybrid.

You keep chanting this and avoiding facts. Taller people can't drive
those econoboxes. I like Toyota...great cars and they earn their money
by making them better every few months.


The Camry hybrid's goal was to allow a more powerful engine
with no more fuel expenditure than a smaller V6.

And if you read read the results they got high 30's making it a great
car for MPG. And it's large enough for tall people, luggage and crash
safety. End of story.

Hybrids rely on petroleum for all their energy. Are you saying we
shouldn't
bother with alternative fuels?

Alternative fuel powered cars are not practical or really available for
most people, Max. Are you saying that this is good reason to drive a
Lincoln, burn more fuel and polute more than is required. That's some
argument.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Right, but Toyota will get a lot more of it--more than it needs to.
Buy a
Yaris and the bottom line will be less money out of your pocket over
the
long run than with a Prius or especially with the Camry or a Honda
Accord
hybrid.

You keep chanting this and avoiding facts. Taller people can't drive
those econoboxes.

How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or three
inches to spare overhead.

The Camry hybrid's goal was to allow a more powerful engine
with no more fuel expenditure than a smaller V6.

And if you read read the results they got high 30's making it a great
car for MPG. And it's large enough for tall people, luggage and crash
safety. End of story.

Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because their
engines shut down at stoplights and restart automatically when the
accelerator is pressed. AND they use more electric motor power for starts,
etc. But my BMW 323Ci gets around 32 on the highway, but averages about 26
overall. A four-cylinder Camry will do even better than that. My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big V6
but with the fuel economy of a 4. And they did. If they'd really wanted to
make the Camry hybrid a green ultra-econocar they'd have put a 4cyl with the
electric motor. That wasn't their purpose, however. Same is true with the
Highland hybrid.

Hybrids rely on petroleum for all their energy. Are you saying we
shouldn't
bother with alternative fuels?

Alternative fuel powered cars are not practical or really available for
most people, Max. Are you saying that this is good reason to drive a
Lincoln, burn more fuel and polute more than is required. That's some
argument.

How in Hell did you draw that conclusion?? To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible vehicles by
2012. And I think hydrogen fuel cells can be practical for commuter
vehicles. In the meantime, turbocharging can give decent power curves to
smaller engines with acceptable fuel economy without all the complexity and
expense of hybrid systems, to say nothing of avoiding the disposal problem
of megatons of sulfated lead from all those giant batteries the hybrids use.
THAT is a real ecological disaster waiting to happen, if hybrids catch on
more than the few percentage points they now occupy.

Max

How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or
three
inches to spare overhead.

I'm 6'3 and I'm too tall for most compacts. But if you knew something
about driving, you'd also know that even shorter people can have
trouble if their legs are long.


Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because
their
engines

Actually, you have no clue. I drove the Prius for several days and we
got MUCH better MPG locally off highway. Owners know it's more than
slightly better.

My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big
V6


Your contention is hardly a factor. The FACTS are that the Camry does
great MPG, have lower emmisions and is part of a improving curve of
higher MPG cars that don't sacrifice drivability and comfort.


To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible
vehicles by
2012.

And I think warp drive should also be installed. But here on planet
Earth we won't have any such thing. Meanwhile, at least some of us can
opt to spend less on fuel today.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
How tall are you? I'm 6' and can sit in a Yaris with at least two or
three
inches to spare overhead.

I'm 6'3 and I'm too tall for most compacts. But if you knew something
about driving, you'd also know that even shorter people can have
trouble if their legs are long.

I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years. Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?" But to respond to your
comment, the Yaris has more leg room than you'd probably need. With the
seat all the way back, I'm quite comfortable with my 32" inseam. But I'll
grant that you are probably too, um, sizeable for a Yaris.


Was that 30mpg an all-around average, or just highway. Actually, IIRC,
hybrids get slightly better mileage in city driving, mostly because
their
engines

Actually, you have no clue. I drove the Prius for several days and we
got MUCH better MPG locally off highway. Owners know it's more than
slightly better.

You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average, the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs. highway
driving. That is according to Toyota and Honda literature, as well as
findings by the automotive press.

My
contention is that Toyota wanted to make a car with the power of a big
V6


Your contention is hardly a factor. The FACTS are that the Camry does
great MPG, have lower emmisions and is part of a improving curve of
higher MPG cars that don't sacrifice drivability and comfort.


To the contrary, I think the US
vehicle fleet should be comprised of at least 50% E85-compatible
vehicles by
2012.

And I think warp drive should also be installed. But here on planet
Earth we won't have any such thing. Meanwhile, at least some of us can
opt to spend less on fuel today.

Brazil is almost completely E-85 now, and has ceased importing foreign oil.
You should read the paper or watch TV a little more before opening mouth and
inserting foot. Oh wait, that wasn't your foot, was it. g

Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If not, you
should be ashamed.

Max

You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average,
the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs.
highway
driving.


Wrong again. We drove the car in PA. Locally, away from Route 80 we had
nearly 10 MPG more, which is consistant with other reports on Edmunds.

Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If
not, you
should be ashamed.


Judging by her light air ability demonstrated Sunday, that engine will
barely be used at all.


I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years.
Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?"

Wow, and yet you still get so much wrong. Just goes to prove: Old
knowledge is often bad knowledge.



RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
You have far more stops in NYC than most folks do. But on the average,
the
Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid do only a little better in city vs.
highway
driving.


Wrong again. We drove the car in PA. Locally, away from Route 80 we had
nearly 10 MPG more, which is consistant with other reports on Edmunds.

I'll trust the other automotive magazines I've read over your experience.
And since I haven't read Edmund's reports on hybrids . . .


Say, Bubbles--are you going to run that Bendy Toy on biodiesel? If
not, you
should be ashamed.


Judging by her light air ability demonstrated Sunday, that engine will
barely be used at all.

Since she'll seldom leave the dock, I concur.



I raced D and E production in SCCA track events for over 20 years.
Does
that qualify me to know "something about driving?"

Wow, and yet you still get so much wrong. Just goes to prove: Old
knowledge is often bad knowledge.

Wrong by your standards is probably right by everyone else's.


Max

I'll trust the other automotive magazines I've read over your
experience.
And since I haven't read Edmund's reports on hybrids . . .


More evidence that you can't even research properly. Edmunds has owner
forums and you can read what people are truly getting from a car in a
variety of locations. Magazine tests are too limited on their own to
judge something like MPG.

Wrong by your standards is probably right by everyone else's

According to Edmunds and the many Hybrid owners posting there, you're
wrong...about all of it.



RB
35s5
NY

But my BMW 323Ci

Gawd, talk about a silly car.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
But my BMW 323Ci

Gawd, talk about a silly car.

Do I detect just a note of jealousy, Bubbles? Huh? g

Max

Do I detect just a note of jealousy, Bubbles? Huh?


Maxi....Puhlease! It's a 3 series. I'm driving a Suburu STI and
Forester XT wagon...both of which would leave that 3 series in the dust
in any conditons. I like the 5 series though. The puny 3 series is
little more than an econobox. Even my Tribeca is cooler with its 250HP,
traction control and 18" wheels and it even has manual mode. Off the
line she's a tank (0-60 in 8.5), but at speed she's faster than the
Lexus 330 and I've had her up to 130 MPH.
I suppose you wanted a car as slow as your boat. Job well done!

RB
35s5
NY