katy wrote:


Marty
Does your medical coverage put age limits on some procedures like in
Great Britain? It is my understanding that in GB, if you are over
50, kidney transplant and I believe, dialysis, are not
available..also some heart treatments.


Not arbitrarily, sometimes out of necessity, my uncle had an aneurysm on
the anterior descending aorta, they wouldn't try to repair it as they
they thought the procedure itself would probably kill him, he was 82 at
the time.

Cheers
Marty

Dave wrote:

On Mon, 08 May 2006 07:57:31 -0400, Martin Baxter said:

So we pay about about the same allowing for exchange, there are however
two important differences: Everbody gets equal coverage here including
the indigent. No one can get dumped by his carrier.

There is, of course, the added cost that doesn't show up on anybody's
balance sheet--the cost of delaying needed care because of the system's
inability to provide it when needed.

I think that applies to just about any health care delivery system. If
by some miracle every person in the USA were to acquire medical
insurance, (this includes your millions of illegal aliens) then the
capacity of the system would be exceeded. Of course in both systems
there are those who eschew any form of preventive medicine for personal
reasons.

Cheers
Marty

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 05 May 2006 04:46:02 GMT, "Maxprop" said:

And the
cost of absorbing the expense of hosptial and medical care for the
uninsured, impoverished masses may just be the largest percentage.

According to reported figures that cost represents between 2 and 3% of the
total. I think you've been reading too much AMA propaganda.

Some numbers for you guys:

http://www.kff.org/insurance/7031/ti2004-1-5.cfm

21% for physician/clinical services, 30% hospital care. (2004 data)

The drug companies are doing well:

http://www.kff.org/insurance/7031/ti2004-1-21.cfm

If you do a little reading in Tenet's 4th quarter financial statement
you will see that they spent some $545 million on "uncompensated care",
this from an operating revenue of $2,299 million (this is the hospital
side of their operation). I believe Tenet is a reasonable exemplar of
this type of business, these numbers would seem to support Max's
position.

Cheers
Marty

"Martin Baxter" wrote
So we pay about about the same allowing for exchange, there are however
two important differences: Everbody gets equal coverage here including
the indigent. No one can get dumped by his carrier.


The problem in both (all?) countries is the lack of good old capitalistic
competition. The solution for the USA is to use our anti-trust laws to break
the back of the American Medical Association. Don't hold your breath ....

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 May 2006 14:03:22 -0400, "Vito" said:

What was
amazing was how a minor (1 or 2%) change in the supply/demand ratio increased
or
decreased prices and thus profits. Maybe some of the business majors here
can
provide the actual equation and typical figures.

It depends entirely on the slope of the two curves. The technical term is
"elasticity" of each of the two. That is, the amount by which a specific
increase in price makes producers willing to increase output, and the amount
by which it causes purchasers to reduce the quantity they're willing to buy
at that price.

Thanks. The equation included those factors and prof claimed that this
'elasticity" was very predictble for well established markets like automobiles,
oil, et cetera. He also mentioned a "poloroid" (?) scheme of sales. Say that a
small % of people would pay $100 for something, but a lot would buy it for $50
and it only costs $1 to produce. The smart way is to offer it at $100 until
sales begin to drop indicating a saturated $100 market then drop the price to
$75. That way you get $100 for some items and many people, who otherwise would
only pay $50, will snap up the "bargains". Interesting stuff I just never got
into.

"Maxprop" wrote
Often the MD suffix is synonymous with runaway ego.

I always thought Cadillac drivers were the same until I bought one, then I found
that other drivers make you that way. If one is deferred to often enough one
comes to expect it. After observing how folks treated his MD uncle a buddy of
mine began using it to his own advantage. For example, if you leave a message
for a friend he may or may not get it but if you say "Tell him Dr. Daniels
called about his lab results" he almost certainly will. The down side was he
was often asked for free diagnosis. He cured that by claiming to be a
proctologist!

I was just commenting on your willingness to use the phrase, but don't like
it when other people do. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 May 2006 13:10:22 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Reported figures? Don't trust this sort of language. Especially if "they"
report them. :-)

I used it simply because I read or skim a fair number of publications and
just don't remember the source of the number. If you have better numbers,
let's hear them.

In article , Vito
wrote:

"Maxprop" wrote
Often the MD suffix is synonymous with runaway ego.

I always thought Cadillac drivers were the same until I bought one, then I
found
that other drivers make you that way. If one is deferred to often enough one
comes to expect it. After observing how folks treated his MD uncle a buddy of
mine began using it to his own advantage. For example, if you leave a message
for a friend he may or may not get it but if you say "Tell him Dr. Daniels
called about his lab results" he almost certainly will.

Yeah. My wife found that when she got her PhD. All of a sudden she got
straight through doctors' secretaries without explanation when she was
wanting to get hold of them, and the med school students paid far more
attention as well.

Funny. I was an associate professor for a while, which caused my staff
a lotta amusement. Eventually I demoted myself as it was a PITA.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..


Thing is, *nobody* I know goes into R&D in most areas with the
expectation that they'll get filthy rich. They do it because they're
interested in a particular type/class of problem. In fact, obsessed
would be a better word than interested. If they do get rich, it's a
nice side effect.

I think you've got blinders on, Pete. Motivations for doing research among
the gifted academics are as wide and varied as with any endeavor by anyone.
Seldom do researchers have the monocentric interest (obsession) that you
describe without other motives. Money is a big one these days, especially
in some fields where the payoff can be huge, such as genetic engineering.
Prestige also tops the list--academics as a rule tend to be somewhat
egotistical, and peer recognition/adulation is a powerful motivator. So is
the desire to be the foremost individual in a particular field of endeavor.
It would be convenient to believe researchers have nothing but altruism
lighting their way, but that simply isn't the case, at least not very often.
Most prominent research scientists won't normally discuss their motives,
apart from telling you they have " . . .always been obsessed with . . ."
their topic of choice, but the other motives are there, and they are
powerful.

So - if those truly motivated in the main by money & prestige choose
some other profession than medicine, good. I don't regard a doctor
practising family medicine as all that much superior to a good auto
mechanic, to tell the truth.

Ridiculous. Next time you are seriously ill, consult your local mechanic.

They get bored, in fact. Friend of mine has given up being a GP and is
doing a PhD in a health related area instead.

It's more than just boredom. It's frustration with the legal climate
surrounding health care, the governmental intervention that imposes more and
more controls over how a qualified physician can practice medicine, and the
eroding doctor-patient relationship, thanks to the first two items. A close
friend, a cardiac surgeon, threw in the towel six years ago and bought a
convenience store (grocery + gas station) in Montana. He had practiced for
24 years, been junk-sued twice (he won both), and watched his malpractice
premiums rise to the level of 25% of his annual gross income. His
professional group broke up for legal reasons, and he found himself alone,
having to be on call constantly. Since leaving medicine, he's a very happy
man. Before he was consistently frustrated and often angry.

The media paint a very one-sided, distorted view of medical people, Pete.
If you are forming your impressions from them, you really need to change
your information-gathering methods.

Max

"katy" wrote in message
...
Martin Baxter wrote:
katy wrote:
Martin Baxter wrote:
katy wrote:
P.S. for Katy, presbyopia does not mean that I'm Presbyterian.
I knew that, Martin. So how much of your tax dollar per annum do
you contribute for health care?

Guess I should have included the smiley. ;-)

The average Canadian family pays about 48% of it's income in taxes,
(federal and provincial income, federal and provincial sales, booze,
gas..etc.), 40% of that goes to health care.

Cheers
Marty
OK, so according to 2001 stats, a median family income in Canada was
about 68k and you are paying around 13k out of your taxes for health
care that doesn't cover some things. If we were to COBRA (pay for
total policy on own) our BCBS plan, which covers many of the things
you've listed as exclusions, would cost us 9K per annum for a family
policy. We do have some small co-pays, which usually add up to
another 1.5k/annum ...

So we pay about about the same allowing for exchange, there are however
two important differences: Everbody gets equal coverage here including
the indigent. No one can get dumped by his carrier.

Cheers
Marty
Does your medical coverage put age limits on some procedures like in Great
Britain? It is my understanding that in GB, if you are over 50, kidney
transplant and I believe, dialysis, are not available..also some heart
treatments.

The "Hillary Health Care Plan" was a classic example of health-care
rationing. Over 50 and need dialysis? Sorry. Transplants after the same
age--wait your turn, and everyone younger gets first shot. Sounded a lot
like Russia.

Max