DSK wrote:
Vito,
You ever go over to Cape Charles?

If he doesn't he should. Up to Tangier, too.


Vito wrote:
No, I had every intention but prolly will not soon due to bad health.
Chemo &
radiation left me too weak to handle a boat if the going got at all
rough so I
gotta stay within a short sail from the pier for now. Maybe this fall
....


Good sailing is just getting started up your way. You should recruit a
crew. I'd suggest some people from this unruly mob but I don't think
following orders is on any ASA'ers resume....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

heh...Vito and me on the same boat...would be a matter of who would
kill who first....

Anybody who does not own a weapon after seeing what happened in New
Orleans when cops are not available is a fool. I purchased an AR15 for
my "when the **** hits the fan" weapon. I also bought enough magazines
and ammo to hold off the criminal element for days until law
enforcement gets back on line. They will move on to easier pickins
after only a minute of trying to get into my house.

Ringmaster wrote:
Anybody who does not own a weapon after seeing what happened in New
Orleans when cops are not available is a fool. I purchased an AR15 for
my "when the **** hits the fan" weapon. I also bought enough magazines
and ammo to hold off the criminal element for days until law
enforcement gets back on line. They will move on to easier pickins
after only a minute of trying to get into my house.


You may only get into worse trouble. You might attract
heavyier caliber return fire, or you may become all that
much more attractive a target for theives who want your gun
& ammo.

Unless one has the capability... physical, intellectual,
emotional, whatever.... to deliberately kill another human
being without so much as an eyeblink of hesitation... one is
better off with a different means of deterrent than a gun.
That's the whole point of a great deal of military & police
training.

The next step is skill with the weapon. Special forces guys
average 200 rounds per day of live fire training! Join a gun
club and get into good practice. It's fun, too.

Regards
Doug King

You may only get into worse trouble. You might attract
heavyier caliber return fire, or you may become all that
much more attractive a target for theives who want your gun
& ammo.

Not true. In New Orleans the only houses that were spared were the
ones with people and weapons inside. Home owners with weapons
protected themselves, their loveones and their STUFF! If you didn't
have a weapon in your home the thugs/criminals were just walking in and
telling anyone inside that they were taking what they wanted and that
there was nothing you could do about it and the police would not be
responding.

Unless one has the capability... physical, intellectual,
emotional, whatever.... to deliberately kill another human
being without so much as an eyeblink of hesitation... one is
better off with a different means of deterrent than a gun.

Under anarchy I wouldn't blink.

AR15s are also the prefered weapon when 200 zombies are coming down
your front street.

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.


Flamethrower.

What are you going to use to keep the cops at bay?

That .223 is good for pigs, coyotes and squirrels. Get a real gun that
shoots real bullets. H&K Model 91 is a good start:

http://www.hkpro.com/hk91.htm

Amen!

God, guts and guns made America!

Glory!

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
. ..

"Ringmaster" wrote in message
oups.com...
one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.


Flamethrower.

What are you going to use to keep the cops at bay?

That .223 is good for pigs, coyotes and squirrels. Get a real gun that
shoots real bullets. H&K Model 91 is a good start:

http://www.hkpro.com/hk91.htm

Amen to that. Nothing quite like a .308 or 7.62x51 NATO for stopping a thug
with one shot.

Max

In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.

PDW

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.



Peter Wiley wrote:
My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.


What about rocksalt?
The nice thing about a pump action is that you can stuff it
with a variety of loads.


3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.


Yep. Especially at the ranges home defense is likely to occur.

Long time ago, the story was that the U.S. military picked
..223 in preference to .308 so as to wound enemy soldiers
rather than kill. Not out of humanity but because that way 2
of the wounded guy's buddies carry him to the rear, so 3 bad
guys leave the fight. Another reason was so that wimpy U.S.
men could pack more bullets into the fight.

Neither reason applies to home defense, although the flatter
trajectory might help produce hits.

I like the idea of a sturdy rifle with a bayonet. Only a
real psycho would rush a man with a bayonet. It's a terror
weapon, especially after you see a live person gigged like
frog before your eyes. It would help deter bad guys from
trying to grab the gun away from you, too.

In this day & time, I'd give consideration to non-lethal
deterrents too. We discussed stun grenades a while ago. They
are more effective than most people would believe, don't
know if civilians can get them.

Regards
Doug King

Peter Wiley wrote:
In article .com,
Ringmaster wrote:

one is better off with a different means of deterrent than a
gun.

Oh, I forgot to ask what better deterrent might be available under SHTF
conditions? SHTF conditions are no cops, no electricity, no
transportation, no nothing and roving bands of unafraid criminals are
coming. I'm not a gun nut so I'll truly listen.

My picks if I didn't care much about collateral damage:

1. flamethrower. Bit difficult to get hold of, tho.

2. pump action shotgun loaded with buckshot.

3. Any decent semiauto .308 loaded with 150 gr JHP

4. Any decent semiauto .223 loaded with 50gr JHP.

The 308 loaded with FMJ is going to go thru the bad guy, his buddy
behind him, the house behind *him* and maybe a few other items in the
way. With JHP or a nice Nosler solid base boat tail soft nose, the bad
guy is basically going to lose a limb with a hit there, or his chest is
gonna dissolve.

PDW

You can make your own homemade flamethrower....you use a can of
hairspray...you have to be careful, though, because sometimes it
backfires and then....you're gone....