I would not argue with anything you've said. I feel it is
essential to fully understand conventional piloting prior
to relying on Electronic Navigation. I've seen chart plotters
that were off 2 miles from the correct location. A real
pilot figures this out quickly because he or she uses
multiple sources of data including the best method
for piloting--the eyeball.

You brought up a good point CM. The stuff has to work
too. That means things like spares, good wiring, and
thoughtful design--otherwise the stuff won't work. If you
install it yourself, your chances of being able to repair it
yourself are greater.

I still think Electronic Navigation is a skill that should
be mastered, particularly if you sail out of home waters,
or in dangerous areas--as Frank so aptly stated.

Other benefits would be the speed in which one could
answer questions like: Will I make it in before sunset, or
should I lay-to overnight? ETA, or distance to a buoy
or destination--the uses are astoundingly fast and greatly
impact calcuation times.

I know for a fact that in challenging conditions I've found
myself double and triple checking my work and reached
a point where I felt I had to start over again. All because
of the distractions of rough conditions and it's associated
nausea, and all the other sorts of distractions that happen
while underway. I've been so short of sleep that my thought
processes required extra time to perform a task! The
speed and accuracy in which one can make calculations with
electronic means is not just valuable--at times it is a huge
help.

Columbus would have used electronic naviation and I'll
be delighted to have a good system on my boat. That sort
of thing also helps keep your crew comfortable with what is
going on. Instead of pestering you, when they don't have a
clue what piloting is all about, you can get them out of your
hair, and learning something by studying charts and tracks
on a chartplotter.

It's also worthwhile to learn new systems on the computer at
home before installing them in the boat. Radios, radar, and
some navigation and computer programs can be studied
and tested on shore, until the operator is 100% comfortable
using them, before installation in the boat. Trying to learn
how to operate a radio or something complicated while
underway is much more difficult than when standing still
without distractions.

Speaking of radios, the number of HF SSB Radios that
can be computer controlled is growing. It makes operating a
radio easier and one can store an unlimited frequencies. I hate
programming radios in a seaway. That is a nauseating thing to
do. Much better to punch a few buttons or keys to implement
programming pre-accomplished on shore, to start listening or
transmitting immediately while underway. It is all about
preparation and Electronic Navigation allows you to prepare
better before you leave the dock or mooring.

A laptop means rapid radio programming changes with minimal
effort. I use one laptop to program my Yaesu FT-8500
2m/70cm FM radios. Withy five identical radios and I need only
run the programming once each to make them all the same.
Likewise I've several programmed configurations, the one for the
boat includes a partial list of marine VHF frequencies for emergency
use. It is my backup communications system.

It is clear that laptops on boats have many uses.

"Capt.Mooron" wrote
I agree it's cool stuff... next year's models will be even cooler. It's
almost required on a power boat, due to the inherent incompetence
portrayed by a large number of their ilk. Seriously... I am dedicated to
removing all but the most basic electronic systems aboard.

There is no way you will convince me that a cluster of digital instruments
is either required nor denotes a better standard of sailing/navigation. If
such was the case... Bobsprit would surely hold court.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
I would not argue with anything you've said. I feel it is
essential to fully understand conventional piloting prior
to relying on Electronic Navigation. I've seen chart plotters
that were off 2 miles from the correct location. A real
pilot figures this out quickly because he or she uses
multiple sources of data including the best method
for piloting--the eyeball.

My point regarding electronic equipment aboard a wet, corrosive environment
is based on the time honoured tradition of belief in Murphy's Law


You brought up a good point CM. The stuff has to work
too. That means things like spares, good wiring, and
thoughtful design--otherwise the stuff won't work. If you
install it yourself, your chances of being able to repair it
yourself are greater.

One cannot "repair" modern circuit technology if your mutli data bank
connected with the latest seatalk kacks on you mid trip.....


I still think Electronic Navigation is a skill that should
be mastered, particularly if you sail out of home waters,
or in dangerous areas--as Frank so aptly stated.

Certainly.... stand alone hand held GPS, ...stand alone handheld compass,
..... stand alone Radar, ...... stand alone Sounder, ....stand alone Log.
Many "electronic" and mechanical instruments require "mastery". my distrust
lies in instrumentation that incorporates multi tasking of information based
on a single unit and possible repeater station.

Other benefits would be the speed in which one could
answer questions like: Will I make it in before sunset, or
should I lay-to overnight? ETA, or distance to a buoy
or destination--the uses are astoundingly fast and greatly
impact calcuation times.

If you haven't fiqured that out long before glancing at your instrument
array... you are in dire straits when coastal sailing. I can tell you within
the hour how long a passage will take based on fixes updated and plotted....
without the use of a nav array that would make a starship captain blush with
envy.


I know for a fact that in challenging conditions I've found
myself double and triple checking my work and reached
a point where I felt I had to start over again. All because
of the distractions of rough conditions and it's associated
nausea, and all the other sorts of distractions that happen
while underway. I've been so short of sleep that my thought
processes required extra time to perform a task! The
speed and accuracy in which one can make calculations with
electronic means is not just valuable--at times it is a huge
help.

I find navigation to effect me in the reverse of that... it focuses me on my
environment.... it invigorates me with challenge .......it keeps me sharp.


Columbus would have used electronic naviation and I'll
be delighted to have a good system on my boat. That sort
of thing also helps keep your crew comfortable with what is
going on. Instead of pestering you, when they don't have a
clue what piloting is all about, you can get them out of your
hair, and learning something by studying charts and tracks
on a chartplotter.

There is a very big difference between redundant navigational equipment on
long trans-oceanic passages and daysails or overnight coastal forays.


It's also worthwhile to learn new systems on the computer at
home before installing them in the boat. Radios, radar, and
some navigation and computer programs can be studied
and tested on shore, until the operator is 100% comfortable
using them, before installation in the boat. Trying to learn
how to operate a radio or something complicated while
underway is much more difficult than when standing still
without distractions.

You needn't learn underway... but you won't get past "theory 101" doing
navigation at home on a laptop.


Speaking of radios, the number of HF SSB Radios that
can be computer controlled is growing. It makes operating a
radio easier and one can store an unlimited frequencies. I hate
programming radios in a seaway. That is a nauseating thing to
do. Much better to punch a few buttons or keys to implement
programming pre-accomplished on shore, to start listening or
transmitting immediately while underway. It is all about
preparation and Electronic Navigation allows you to prepare
better before you leave the dock or mooring.

That is a nonsensical stance to present Bart..... in no way on earth will a
nav program on a laptop better prepare you before you leave the dock! No
Way!


A laptop means rapid radio programming changes with minimal
effort. I use one laptop to program my Yaesu FT-8500
2m/70cm FM radios. Withy five identical radios and I need only
run the programming once each to make them all the same.
Likewise I've several programmed configurations, the one for the
boat includes a partial list of marine VHF frequencies for emergency
use. It is my backup communications system.

I despair at the thought of requiring 5 radios and computer guided
programing software to set them up. I usually don't bother even turning on
my VHF while underway unless I'm hailing someone.


It is clear that laptops on boats have many uses.

Yeah...... some make great DVD Movie players!

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote

My point regarding electronic equipment aboard a wet, corrosive
environment is based on the time honoured tradition of belief in Murphy's
Law

And you would be right about that. Given a choice, I'd still
perfer to have things that work on-board instead of pulling
out the astrolabe.

thoughtful design--otherwise the stuff won't work. If you
install it yourself, your chances of being able to repair it
yourself are greater.

One cannot "repair" modern circuit technology if your mutli data bank
connected with the latest seatalk kacks on you mid trip.....

I've found most problems lay with sensors or wiring,
not PCB's. Perioding inspections, cleaning, and re-terminating
wire usually keep them working.

If you haven't fiqured that out long before glancing at your instrument
array... you are in dire straits when coastal sailing. I can tell you
within the hour how long a passage will take based on fixes updated and
plotted.... without the use of a nav array that would make a starship
captain blush with envy.

Ok. what about navigating tight passages, with numerous shoals
in fog? I've felt my way though difficult situtations with nothing
but a compass, depth sounder and my ears, taking when I heard
the birds get particularly loud. I'll gladly use a chart plotter hooked
up to WAAS GPS for this, with radar too, given a choice. For
one thing it is safer. For another, it is another skill to master and
something new is always interesting.

It's also worthwhile to learn new systems on the computer at
home before installing them in the boat. Radios, radar, and
some navigation and computer programs can be studied
and tested on shore, until the operator is 100% comfortable
using them, before installation in the boat. Trying to learn
how to operate a radio or something complicated while
underway is much more difficult than when standing still
without distractions.

You needn't learn underway... but you won't get past "theory 101" doing
navigation at home on a laptop.

It is true there is no substitute for experience. There are,
however, numberous cases where prior planning prevents
poor performance--the five P's.

How about figuring out how to program a strange radio?
Once I've mastered the operation of the radio over weeks
of playing with it at home, I can operate it by reflex when
mobile or maritime mobile. I've found it nearly impossible
to learn how to operate a new radio while driving or sailing.

I've also built and test custom wiring for different navigation
systems and made sure they worked before installing them in
the boat. It made it all a breeze when the time came to install
in the boat. I could then focus on refining how to use them.

I like being able to program my navigation software to
broadcast my course--when I'm off watch, I still have an
idea of what is going on with the other watch.