Dutchman System
 

I know the guy who makes them, but I don't get any
commission on selling them or anything like that. I do
wholeheartedly endorse the system and have one on
my boat, with the caveat that I think a good track system
is of equal or greater importance. I plan to put a Strong
Track on my boat this spring.

The Dutchman is a very nice system. Point to anything better
on the market! You can't because there is nothing better.
Perhaps if you have a slug of a boat with no sail shaping
capabilities you could make an argument for in-boom furling.
My choice would be to have some mast bend adjustability.

On the negative side. Dutchman systems are better used on
newer sails which can develop a shape memory, or heavier sails.


"Dave" wrote

Hate to say it, Bart, but in view of your affiliation this repeat of your
earlier message is approaching spam.

I don't disagree about its being a nice system. But one must exercise a
little restraint with his enthusiasm.

Dutchman System
 

The guy who developed and sells the Dutchman System is
a buddy of mine.

Dave and I have sailed together--on a Dutchman equiped
boat, owned by this same fellow. As I recall, you liked
the system Dave, didn't you? What is your opinion?

"Capt. JG" wrote
affiliation? what, with sailing?

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Quite frankly, you're just being a belligerent dumb-ass here.


Maxprop wrote:
Hi there, Doug. Just thought I'd remind you when you engage in name
calling, since you seem to believe you seldom or never do.


Not at all... did I say I *never* do? Just rarely, and only when
justified.

To blame this accident on the roller furler is just plain stupid. To use
this incident as "proof" that roller furlers are no good, and insist on
that proof loudly, is going a few step further.... what would you call
that?

You're absolutely right, of course. I couldn't agree more. My point is:
if you were discussing this with Joe over a beer and chips/salsa, would you
have referred to him as a "belligerent dumb-ass" to his face? The
impersonal nature of Usenet seems to bring out the worst sort of
belligerence in us all, I think.

Max

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Thom Stewart wrote:
I'd call that name calling!


Good thing this isn't an election. I just lost another vote!

At least you didn't shoot anyone.

Max

Dutchman System
 

I'll keep this in mind for my next boat!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
The guy who developed and sells the Dutchman System is
a buddy of mine.

Dave and I have sailed together--on a Dutchman equiped
boat, owned by this same fellow. As I recall, you liked
the system Dave, didn't you? What is your opinion?

"Capt. JG" wrote
affiliation? what, with sailing?

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Maxprop" wrote ...

You're absolutely right, of course. I couldn't agree
more. My point is:
if you were discussing this with Joe over a beer and
chips/salsa, would you
have referred to him as a "belligerent dumb-ass" to his
face? The
impersonal nature of Usenet seems to bring out the worst
sort of
belligerence in us all, I think.


Over beers and chips/salsa? I would call him a ''dumb-ass
Texan red neck lubber'' , while smiling, of course.

Scotty

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

To blame this accident on the roller furler is just plain stupid. To use
this incident as "proof" that roller furlers are no good, and insist on
that proof loudly, is going a few step further.... what would you call
that?


Maxprop wrote:
You're absolutely right, of course. I couldn't agree more. My point is:
if you were discussing this with Joe over a beer and chips/salsa, would you
have referred to him as a "belligerent dumb-ass" to his face?

That depends on how belligerent he was to start with. For
the most part, I believe in curtesy & good manners but I
don't waste my time trying to be polite to people who are
deliberately trying to start a fight.

... The
impersonal nature of Usenet seems to bring out the worst sort of
belligerence in us all, I think.


That's absolutely true. Explains why some people act that
way all the time!

DSK

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

Thom Stewart wrote:
I'd call that name calling!


Good thing this isn't an election. I just lost another vote!


Maxprop wrote:
At least you didn't shoot anyone.


Not this time, anyway. But the thread isn't over yet ;)

DSK

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

You could not handle our Salsa yankee boy.

Better stick to squirty cheese on your chips.

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy.... the Texas chili contest
 

Joe wrote:
You could not handle our Salsa yankee boy.

Better stick to squirty cheese on your chips.


** * ** * ** begin quote ** * ** * **
"Recently I was honored to be selected as an outstanding famous
celebrity in Texas, to be a judge at a chili cookoff, because no
one else wanted to do it. Also the original person called in
sick
at the last moment, and I happened to be standing there at the
judge's table asking directions to the beer wagon when the call
came. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that
the chili wouldn't be all that spicy, and besides they told me I
could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted."

Here are the scorecards from the event:

Chili # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili

JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.

JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.

ME: Holy smokes, what the hell is this stuff? You could remove
dried paint from your driveway with it. Took me two beers to put
the flames out. Hope that's the worst one. These hicks are
crazy.

Chili # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili

JUDGE ONE: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight
Jalapeno
tang.

JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken
seriously.

ME: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am
supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who
wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the
front of the beer line.

Chili # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili

JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more
beans.

JUDGE TWO: A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of red
peppers.

ME: This has got to be a joke. Call the EPA, I've located a
uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano.
Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way so I
could make it to the beer wagon. Barmaid pounded me on the back;
now my backbone is in the front part of my chest.

Chili # 4: Bubba's Black Magic

JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.

JUDGE TWO: Hint of lime in the black beans. Good sidedish for
fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.

ME: I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable
to taste it. Sally, the barmaid, was standing behind me with
fresh refills so I wouldn't have to dash over to see her.

Chili # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover

JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground,
adding considerable kick. Very impressive.

JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato.
Must
admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.

ME: My ears are ringing, and I can no longer focus my eyes. I
farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The
contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili had given
me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly
on it from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other
judges asked me to stop screaming.

Chili # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety

JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance
of spice and peppers.

JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and
garlic. Superb.

ME: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous
flames. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except
Sally the
barmaid.

Chili # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili

JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned
peppers.

JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef threw in canned chili
peppers at the last moment. I should note that I am worried
about
Judge Number 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress.

ME: You could put a grenade in my mouth and pull the pin, and I
wouldn't feel it. I've lost the sight in one eye, and the world
sounds like it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered
with chili, which slid unnoticed out of my mouth at some point.
Good! At autopsy they'll know what killed me. I've decided to
stop breathing, it's too painful, and I'm not getting any oxygen
anyway. If I need air I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch
hole in my stomach.

Chili # 8: Helen's Mount Saint Chili

JUDGE ONE: A perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili,
safe for
all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.

JUDGE TWO: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither
mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge
Number 3 fell and pulled the chili pot on top of himself.

DOC: -------(Judge #3 was unable to report)

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

Maxprop wrote:
"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

Thom Stewart wrote:

I'd call that name calling!


Good thing this isn't an election. I just lost another vote!


At least you didn't shoot anyone.

Max


Yet.......

Dutchman System
 

Bart & John;

I still prefer "LAZY JACKS" with full batten main to the"DUTCHMAN."
Mostly for the ability to remove the "Jack" completely from the Main
Sail. With the "Jacks" drawn to the Goose neck I have a completely clear
sail. I feel that a free sail has better ability for sail shape control;
especially Twist.

With the "Jacks" in place, I can get the same control in dropping the
sail and also allows the use of a standard Sail Cover. With a "Free
Footed Main" I have the ability to completely wrap the sail in a
standard sail cover; Free from contact with the Boom.

With the "Jacks" drawn; to free the Leech, the sail is free to Hoist
without problems



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

Lessons of a tragedy.... the Texas chili contest
 

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I used to participate in a
Jalapeño eating contests. I mostly lost, but it was interesting.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Joe wrote:
You could not handle our Salsa yankee boy.

Better stick to squirty cheese on your chips.


** * ** * ** begin quote ** * ** * **
"Recently I was honored to be selected as an outstanding famous
celebrity in Texas, to be a judge at a chili cookoff, because no
one else wanted to do it. Also the original person called in sick
at the last moment, and I happened to be standing there at the
judge's table asking directions to the beer wagon when the call
came. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that
the chili wouldn't be all that spicy, and besides they told me I
could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted."

Here are the scorecards from the event:

Chili # 1: Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili

JUDGE ONE: A little too heavy on tomato. Amusing kick.

JUDGE TWO: Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild.

ME: Holy smokes, what the hell is this stuff? You could remove
dried paint from your driveway with it. Took me two beers to put
the flames out. Hope that's the worst one. These hicks are crazy.

Chili # 2: Arthur's Afterburner Chili

JUDGE ONE: Smoky (barbecue?) with a hint of pork. Slight Jalapeno
tang.

JUDGE TWO: Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken
seriously.

ME: Keep this out of reach of children! I'm not sure what I am
supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who
wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. Shoved my way to the
front of the beer line.

Chili # 3: Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili

JUDGE ONE: Excellent firehouse chili! Great kick. Needs more
beans.

JUDGE TWO: A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of red
peppers.

ME: This has got to be a joke. Call the EPA, I've located a
uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano.
Everyone knows the routine by now and got out of my way so I
could make it to the beer wagon. Barmaid pounded me on the back;
now my backbone is in the front part of my chest.

Chili # 4: Bubba's Black Magic

JUDGE ONE: Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.

JUDGE TWO: Hint of lime in the black beans. Good sidedish for
fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.

ME: I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable
to taste it. Sally, the barmaid, was standing behind me with
fresh refills so I wouldn't have to dash over to see her.

Chili # 5: Linda's Legal Lip Remover

JUDGE ONE: Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground,
adding considerable kick. Very impressive.

JUDGE TWO: Chili using shredded beef; could use more tomato. Must
admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.

ME: My ears are ringing, and I can no longer focus my eyes. I
farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The
contestant seemed hurt when I told her that her chili had given
me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue by pouring beer directly
on it from a pitcher. Sort of irritates me that one of the other
judges asked me to stop screaming.

Chili # 6: Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety

JUDGE ONE: Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance
of spice and peppers.

JUDGE TWO: The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and
garlic. Superb.

ME: My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous
flames. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except Sally the
barmaid.

Chili # 7: Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili

JUDGE ONE: A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned
peppers.

JUDGE TWO: Ho Hum, tastes as if the chef threw in canned chili
peppers at the last moment. I should note that I am worried about
Judge Number 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress.

ME: You could put a grenade in my mouth and pull the pin, and I
wouldn't feel it. I've lost the sight in one eye, and the world
sounds like it is made of rushing water. My clothes are covered
with chili, which slid unnoticed out of my mouth at some point.
Good! At autopsy they'll know what killed me. I've decided to
stop breathing, it's too painful, and I'm not getting any oxygen
anyway. If I need air I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch
hole in my stomach.

Chili # 8: Helen's Mount Saint Chili

JUDGE ONE: A perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili, safe for
all, not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.

JUDGE TWO: This final entry is a good, balanced chili, neither
mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge
Number 3 fell and pulled the chili pot on top of himself.

DOC: -------(Judge #3 was unable to report)

Dutchman System
 

Good point about the sail cover, the Dutchman does
require a custom sailcover with zippers for the sides
at the monofilament. However, they go on nearly as
fast as a normal sail cover and given that the sail needs
at most a few tugs to pull straight, the amount of work
a Dutchman saves more than offsets the time needed to
zip two zippers.

There is no problem with twisting the sail using a
Dutchman system. I do it all the time. There is no
negative impact on sail shaping--this is one reason why
I like it.

"Thom Stewart" wrote

I still prefer "LAZY JACKS" with full batten main to the"DUTCHMAN."
Mostly for the ability to remove the "Jack" completely from the Main
Sail. With the "Jacks" drawn to the Goose neck I have a completely clear
sail. I feel that a free sail has better ability for sail shape control;
especially Twist.

With the "Jacks" in place, I can get the same control in dropping the
sail and also allows the use of a standard Sail Cover. With a "Free
Footed Main" I have the ability to completely wrap the sail in a
standard sail cover; Free from contact with the Boom.

With the "Jacks" drawn; to free the Leech, the sail is free to Hoist
without problems

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

I've never seen a purple **** either.


"katy" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:
Lessons From a Tragedy
Monday, February 27, 2006 - Bangor Daily News

It was a boat accident that shouldn't have happened - for several
reasons. Here's how things went wrong, as pieced together by the Coast
Guard in a final report issued recently:

A 55-year-old Stratham, N.H., man and his son, 20, started out from
Rockland last Oct. 15, a Saturday, on their 41-foot sailboat, Naobi,
for Rye, N.H., to have the boat hauled for the winter.

The forecast was for bad weather. They had trouble starting the engine
on their dinghy, and their diesel engine sputtered and died, but they
went ahead under sail. They had lifejackets and safety harnesses
onboard but never put them on. Safety flares were onboard but weren't
used.

By nightfall, it was raining hard, the wind was gusting at perhaps 30
knots and they were being buffeted by nearly 5-foot seas. The son, new
to the boat, slept below and occasionally spelled his father at the
helm.

At about 9:30 p.m., with the weather worsening, the father summoned the
son on deck to help furl the sails. The father crawled out on the
bowsprit to try to fix the jammed furling mechanism on the jib sail
while the son tried to keep the boat headed into the wind.

It broached broadside to the wind and waves, took a lurch, and the stay
sail boom knocked the father overboard. He managed to grab the end of a
line, and the son tried to haul his father aboard, but the father lost
his grip and disappeared in the murk.

The son tried unsuccessfully to start the engine. He tried to use the
boat's shortwave radio but didn't know whether it was working. He tried
to call for help on his father's cell phone but could raise no one.

His mother became alarmed when she couldn't reach them by cell phone.
She called the Coast Guard on Monday, Oct. 17, and a search began
immediately of the long stretch of ocean between Rockland and Rye. On
the fourth day, a patrol plane finally spotted the battered sailboat
and radioed a nearby lobster boat for help. The crew found the son
still aboard and got him onto the lobster boat. The sailboat was towed
into Rockland harbor and examined by the Coast Guard.

The inspecting officer, Lt. Cdr. Michael Lindaitis, had these
recommendations for all sailors:

File a "float plan" with family or friends, giving the intended route
and time of arrival.

Make sure all necessary equipment is in order and all necessary safety
gear is aboard.

Make sure that crew members understand how to handle the boat and use
the safety gear.

Finally, if a boat is overdue, call the Coast Guard immediately.

Commercial boats and their captains are licensed, and crews may get
dockside safety training and inspection by the Coast Guard.

Maine has no similar requirements for recreational boating, but Cdr.
Lindaitis strongly recommends that pleasure sailors arrange with the
Coast Guard Auxiliary for training and inspection.

Adequate gear and training, prudent preparation and a float plan can
save lives and prevent tragedy.

Joe, your perception is very strange...their demise had nothing or little
to do with the roller furler and almost all to do with ineptitude, poor
planning, and ignorance. We've had furler fouls in that type of weather
and we're still here..but then, our engine works, we wear safety gear, and
we know what we're doing before venturing out into slop. On another note,
when we had the O'Day 27, pre-furler, we had an episode, in 9 foot waves,
where we wanted to change the job from working to the storm sail...the
halyard caught up at the masthead. Only way I could get that thing down
was to double tie myself off and use my full body weight to drag the jib
down...I landed on my rear on a padeye, but it did come down...the bruise
was very interesting...never seen taht color purple before. Should I blame
that on standard rigged jibs or on the fact that shot happens when you
sail no matter what?

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote ...

You're absolutely right, of course. I couldn't agree
more. My point is:
if you were discussing this with Joe over a beer and
chips/salsa, would you
have referred to him as a "belligerent dumb-ass" to his
face? The
impersonal nature of Usenet seems to bring out the worst
sort of
belligerence in us all, I think.


Over beers and chips/salsa? I would call him a ''dumb-ass
Texan red neck lubber'' , while smiling, of course.

Yes, but you'd say it in the nicest possible way, wouldn't you?

Max

Lessons of a tragedy.... the Texas chili contest
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I used to participate in a
Jalapeño eating contests. I mostly lost, but it was interesting.

Wimp. Try a habenero-eating contest, like we have here in . . . in . . .

Okay, I'm lying.

Max

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Thom Stewart wrote:
I'd call that name calling!


Good thing this isn't an election. I just lost another vote!


Maxprop wrote:
At least you didn't shoot anyone.


Not this time, anyway. But the thread isn't over yet ;)

Please aim high. :-o

Max

Dutchman System
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I'll keep this in mind for my next boat!

Jon--no one who has the Dutchman furling system on their mains in our marina
likes them. They all seem to work reasonably well, but the antipathy toward
them is universal among the folks I know. Not sure why, but FWIW . . .

Max

Lessons of a tragedy.... the Texas chili contest
 

Heh... no thanks. I tried some of that stuff once. I heard about people
putting it in their bottom paint, which I tried... hard to tell if it made a
difference, but I sure don't want to "taste" it again. It took me a 1/2 hour
to get over it enough to open my eyes.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I used to participate in
a Jalapeño eating contests. I mostly lost, but it was interesting.

Wimp. Try a habenero-eating contest, like we have here in . . . in . . .

Okay, I'm lying.

Max

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

Your 'salsa' is made in NEW YAWK!

Ha ha ha


"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
You could not handle our Salsa yankee boy.

Better stick to squirty cheese on your chips.

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Maxprop" wrote ...

You're absolutely right, of course. I couldn't agree
more. My point is:
if you were discussing this with Joe over a beer and
chips/salsa, would you
have referred to him as a "belligerent dumb-ass" to his
face? The
impersonal nature of Usenet seems to bring out the
worst
sort of
belligerence in us all, I think.


Over beers and chips/salsa? I would call him a
''dumb-ass
Texan red neck lubber'' , while smiling, of course.

Yes, but you'd say it in the nicest possible way, wouldn't
you?


I don't do nice.

SV

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:36:49 GMT, "jlrogers"
wrote:

I've never seen a purple **** either.



I've never seen a purple ****
I never hope to see one
But I can tell you anyhow
I'd rather see, than be one

You are a yellow ****, chicken****.

SV

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

2 bright red bigboy fresh chopped tomatoes (Cucumbers if in season)
3/4 Texas A&M sweet onion, chopped
4 tbsp fresh cilantro, chopped
1 Cup fresh jalapeño's and habenero chilies, chopped
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp granulate sugar
3 tbsp paul newmans balsimic vinegar
2 tbsp of lime juice

White corn chips

A huge picture of frozen lime margritas.
Mix all ingredients thoroughly. Serve immediately..

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

Joe,

You should try it with a PITCHER of cold Margaritas. Works on on the
heat in your mouth better



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

A huge picture of frozen lime margritas.

That's the trouble with you guys down there. Visuals are no substitute for
the real thing.

Max

Dutchman System
 

Action Item: Max to talk to people and get back to us.
Deadline: two weeks :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:54:54 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

That's strange. The system seemed to work really well, but I haven't
spoken
with an owner directly. If you happen to speak to one them, I'd be
interested in their comments.

As would I. Got a new main coming from the sail maker, and was thinking
about having the system added.

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

I'd rather have a pitcher of it than a picture... :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
2 bright red bigboy fresh chopped tomatoes (Cucumbers if in season)
3/4 Texas A&M sweet onion, chopped
4 tbsp fresh cilantro, chopped
1 Cup fresh jalapeño's and habenero chilies, chopped
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp granulate sugar
3 tbsp paul newmans balsimic vinegar
2 tbsp of lime juice

White corn chips

A huge picture of frozen lime margritas.
Mix all ingredients thoroughly. Serve immediately..

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
I don't do nice.
SV



You're going to be nude eating my NY Salsa and chips,

you're weird, Joe.

yet offer
to picnic with some NYer and provide sandwiches?


It was a ''knuckle'' sandwich. You don't want one of those,
do you?





What kind of BS is that? You better be a good swimmer if
you carry
that attitude down here.

Jerk....

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

jeeeeeze one little katytype .

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

Heheheh... it's an important subject!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
jeeeeeze one little katytype .

Joe

Lessons of a tragedy....Roller furlers suck
 

made me laugh out loud with that shovel comment!

Dutchman System
 

I've sailed lots of boats with this system. Large and small.
In my opinion, I would do without it.

"Dave" wrote
"Capt. JG" said:

That's strange. The system seemed to work really well, but I haven't
spoken
with an owner directly. If you happen to speak to one them, I'd be
interested in their comments.

As would I. Got a new main coming from the sail maker, and was thinking
about having the system added.

Dutchman System
 

The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:14:01 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. wrote:

This topic deserves it's own thread.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
To remove a Dutchman, you lower the sail. It self
flakes. Next you lower the toping lift and disconnect
the topping lift from the wire provided for the Dutchman.
Remove the sail from the boom.

How many mains do you have for a given boat? If you are
racing, you don't need it if you have a big crew. Still I have
seenn some racing boats with Dacron sails using Dutchman's.

It really is a nice system. It works best with newer sails.
Let the sail sit flaked up for a winter and it will fall perfectly
every time.

Combine this with a track system and you can make a nice
coil of main halyard, and simply throw the rope clutch off and
the sail will fall completely down. Rarely will you have to
tug the sail down. I find that if pointed directly into the wind
with this system it falls all the way down as fast as you can
snap your fingers twice.

A Dutchman, with a good track system, and roller furling on
the headsail, means easy sail dousing. The Dutchman also
holds the sail on the boom when the sail ties are removed.
No huge mess of sail falling everywhere.

Without a doubt it is a fabulous system for shorthanded or
solo sailing.

"Capt. JG" wrote
Yeah, I do like the system... I guess it's just the idea of having to put
holes in every new main you get. Has to be custom done for each situation
right? Also, what's the effort like if you have to remove the sail from
the boat? I don't like the standard Lazy Jacks that much because they
tend to interfere with the sails going up sometimes. They do make the
more complicated setup that moves the LJs while the sail goes up and
down, but that yet another level of complexity.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Small holes, with reinforcing patches. The monofilament is
pretty thin stuff. It is certainly not something worth complaining
about compared to other systems with bigger hassles.

"Capt. JG" wrote
The only bummer about the Dutchman system is that you have to put holes
in your sail.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
My choice is a Dutchman System, with a good track system
--which gives you all the benefits of sail shaping, as well as easy
hoisting and lowering, and the benefit of keeping the sail where
you want it.

Dutchman System
 

I disagree. Personally, I sail a Freedom 36 with a 500 sf main, solid
vang and lazyjacks. The boat was never meant to have a traditional
topping lift. In fact, it was originally designed with the lazyjacks
AS the topping lift. The trend today is to fractional rigs with full
roached mains. These preclude a toppinglift due to interference with
the roach. Using a topping lift to flake your main and then have to
constantly adjust it to keep from fouling the roach is silly. If you
have and use a topping lift, the Dutchman works, if not, use lazy
jacks.

On 2 Mar 2006 12:28:13 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:59:33 -0500, Marc wrote:

The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

Foolish statement. The most that can be said based on the above is
that a lazyjack system is better if you are a racer with such a large
roach that the topping lift interferes with it.

Dutchman System
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:59:44 -0500, "Bart Senior" .@. said:

I've sailed lots of boats with this system. Large and small.
In my opinion, I would NOT do without it.

Is that last sentence what you intended to say?

Dutchman System
 

Except that with full battens lasy jacks foul
unless you get them out of the way before
hoisting. That is a headache IMHO.

How many boat had full roach mains? Not
all that many.

"Marc" wrote
The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.

Dutchman System
 

The only LJ system I know that doesn't foul fully roached mains adjusts as
the sail is raised and lowered. It adds complexity to the rigging of the LJ
system. I haven't tried it, but it sounds interesting. I don't know if there
would be any cost savings.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...
Except that with full battens lasy jacks foul
unless you get them out of the way before
hoisting. That is a headache IMHO.

How many boat had full roach mains? Not
all that many.

"Marc" wrote
The Duthman is a partial answer at best. They are impractical for full
batten full roached mains as they need a topping lift to operate.
Sailors with full roached mains want to get RID of topping lifts,
hence the advent of solid vangs. Kind of stupid to sail with a topping
lift only for the purpose of flaking your main. A well designed
lazyjack system is the answer for all applications.