As I was typing, I heard POP, POP which I recognized as high voltage
sparks and went into the other room where my technician was working on
an electron microscope. We spent a few minutes figuring where a cable
had broken down and decided to make a teflon bushing to go around it,
fun, fun. At the same time, I am waiting for a sputter system to pump
down so I can make an entirely new type of x-ray optic. I am excited
every morning when I come to work. Can lawyers say that?

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life. I have a
turn-of-the-century (1912) college physics text written by Millikan
(yes, that Millikan, you know, the electron charge measurement) and
it's tone is entirely different from the texts I learned from. My
texts were very strong on abstract theory and short on explaining the
real world. Millikans text is a great read explaining in detail how
steam engines work and the detailed thermodynamics behind them. He
explains EM waves and even explains how the spark-gap radio
transmitters of the time worked in great detail.
Today, Math and Physics are taught as if they are entirely theory
neglecting everyday real world problems. How many people have ever
gone around looking at their home appliances looking at the power
rating and figuring out how much it costs to run each one. This
excercise teaches the relation between power and energy and some
practical economics. How many kids have ever figured out how many
calories they burn by running up some stairs? Why doesnt this compare
correctly to the caloric content of food (one of the calorie units is
1000x the other is why).
Last year, I took my 15 yr old son on a long sailing trip during the
school year and had him plotting position, figuring out how leeway
would change our DR position, and doing coastal navigation. These real
world examples give a "feel" for trig relationships that you cannot get
just from books.
A person who know science, math and engineering can read a
psuedo-techie article in the paper and realize when the writer is full
of crap.

On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank


Try annealing or cooling in a magnetic field.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:13:55 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank


Try annealing or cooling in a magnetic field.



See there you go. Anyone can come up with a solution if cost is not
an issue. I said practical.

The solutions lie in the gating methods, shake out procedure, the
machining process itself. These are things that don't add cost.
Requires education and experience to come up with practical solutions.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:13:55 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank


Try annealing or cooling in a magnetic field.



See there you go. Anyone can come up with a solution if cost is not
an issue. I said practical.

The solutions lie in the gating methods, shake out procedure, the
machining process itself. These are things that don't add cost.
Requires education and experience to come up with practical solutions.

No, it usually requires trial and error and a large scrap bin.

If education and experience were really a factor, you wouldn't have had the
problem in the first place.

Education gives you the ability to anticipate problems you haven't
experienced, experience gives you a quiver of solutions to problems.


Problems arise due to lack of foresight, education or experience (actually
poor management is the root of most problems). Most of the ways problems are
solved is through trial, error and luck.

The only place education and experience really counts is for lawyers in the
courtroom. For that they are richly rewarded. An engineer with 30 or 40
years experience is over the hill.

Amen!

"Bob Crantz" wrote
Education gives you the ability to anticipate problems you haven't
experienced, experience gives you a quiver of solutions to problems.

I'm framing this and hanging it or my office wall -
Amen!
Scout

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:45:18 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 19:13:55 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 2 Feb 2006 08:03:47 -0800, wrote:

Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life.

That's true but I think it is getting better. I was approached by a
professor who taught metalurgy of casting and joining to come to his
class and present a case study. Anything that I wanted that was real
world and practical. My case study was on the difficulty in
maintaining the appropriate post machining flatness with cast iron saw
tables. I presented the process from the foundry to the consumer and
let them determine what they would do to improve the process. The
students took to it with great enthusiasm. Although I provided them
with a video of the process, some came to the factory to observe. The
professor says he does that a lot and so do others in the Engineering
Department.

I can't remember anything like that happening when I was in school.

Now, if we could only keep the jobs for these students in this
country!

Frank


Try annealing or cooling in a magnetic field.



See there you go. Anyone can come up with a solution if cost is not
an issue. I said practical.

The solutions lie in the gating methods, shake out procedure, the
machining process itself. These are things that don't add cost.
Requires education and experience to come up with practical solutions.

No, it usually requires trial and error and a large scrap bin.

If education and experience were really a factor, you wouldn't have had the
problem in the first place.

Education gives you the ability to anticipate problems you haven't
experienced, experience gives you a quiver of solutions to problems.


Problems arise due to lack of foresight, education or experience (actually
poor management is the root of most problems). Most of the ways problems are
solved is through trial, error and luck.

Not a problem, Bob, a condition. A problem is when something changes
in an established process. A condition is your start state when you
want to achieve an end, maybe that has not been possible yet. And yes
there could be a lot of trial and error to get there. Education and
experience is what limits the amount of trial and error to get to the
end. And provides criteria for prioritizing the experiments. Makes
the process of improvement efficient.

If I currently can hold (by statistical capability study) .008"
diagonally measured flatness and I want to hold .004", I don't have a
problem, I have a current state and an improvement goal.

The only place education and experience really counts is for lawyers in the
courtroom. For that they are richly rewarded. An engineer with 30 or 40
years experience is over the hill.

Amen!

wrote in message
ups.com...
Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects. This
is even the case in college where the profs are great at theory but
have no understanding of how it all applies in real life. I have a
turn-of-the-century (1912) college physics text written by Millikan
(yes, that Millikan, you know, the electron charge measurement) and
it's tone is entirely different from the texts I learned from. My
texts were very strong on abstract theory and short on explaining the
real world. Millikans text is a great read explaining in detail how
steam engines work and the detailed thermodynamics behind them. He
explains EM waves and even explains how the spark-gap radio
transmitters of the time worked in great detail.


Millikan dry labbed the oil drop experiment. :

http://www.fofweb.com/Subscription/S...Pin=ffests0352

"Nobel Laureate physicist Robert Millikan (1868-1953) ignored some
observations in determining the charge on the electron because they violated
his expectations."

That's good lawyering if you ask me. Have the evidence thrown out!


Today, Math and Physics are taught as if they are entirely theory
neglecting everyday real world problems.

Modern physics is based upon ignorance of the real world. Invent a new
particle for every effect or invent dark matter that one can see or measure,
but it comes out in the math!

How many people have ever
gone around looking at their home appliances looking at the power
rating and figuring out how much it costs to run each one.

Unless they can measure/know power factor, not VARS, they can't!

This
excercise teaches the relation between power and energy and some
practical economics. How many kids have ever figured out how many
calories they burn by running up some stairs?

Science has brought them games boys. No need to exercise!

Why doesnt this compare
correctly to the caloric content of food (one of the calorie units is
1000x the other is why).



Last year, I took my 15 yr old son on a long sailing trip during the
school year and had him plotting position, figuring out how leeway
would change our DR position, and doing coastal navigation. These real
world examples give a "feel" for trig relationships that you cannot get
just from books.


You get the same feel from navigating or a text book. The text does give
real world examples. Navigation gives the immediacy, applicability and
practice of trigonometry. It is a more entertaining way to learn.

Did you know entertainers make more than lawyers!

A person who know science, math and engineering can read a
psuedo-techie article in the paper and realize when the writer is full
of crap.


The science crap in the newspaper is not the crap that one should be
worrying about.

Read the front of today's Wall Street Journal. They make a mockery of Bush's
State of the Union initiatives. Then go back and read my original post.

It's the crap that men of power espouse that one should be worried about.

Amen!

wrote in message
ups.com...
Part of the problem is the way math and science is taught as if they
were obscure theoretical subjects with little application to real life
and this is because most teachers do not understand the subjects.

My point exactly; or at least one of them. I work in a school with many
gifted teachers, they are engineers, PhD'd scientists (biomed), nurses,
technicians, machinists, carpenters, IT specialists, and on and on. They're
older people but new teachers. They've had successful careers but many have
wanted to try teaching and this is a great way to try it on for size. They
can and do bring math (and academics in general) to life for kids who wants
to learn. They do help the problematic kids who are "dumped" into the
vo-techs, but at the expense of that middle 50% who are now displaced by the
practices of the system. What a waste of talent when you consider that kids
sitting in sending schools are in effect being denied wonderful
opportunities because their guidance counselors and administrators have done
the evil and selfish deed of populating the vo-techs with trouble makers,
and then telling the good kids they're too "smart" for vo-tech. First they
create the environment and then they condemn it! So now the traditional
(sending) high school has highly trained special ed teachers who are working
with manageable groups of the 6 or 7 spec ed kids they kept, while the
engineers with very little training in spec ed have labs with 25 kids, 50%
of whom are spec ed or emotional support. Having said all that, I think the
engineers do a better job at spec ed than the spec ed teachers do! Maybe the
universe is in balance afterall!
Scout