"Scotty" wrote in message
...
I took a Skinner, single cyl., horizontal steam engine out to IN
last week. I think it's a Multi Flow.
These are the 3 big pieces to it. The smaller stuff will come
later.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/920863.JPG
http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/525767.JPG


The crank / flywheel / rotor assy. Weighs 9 ton.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data/sbvernon/38778.JPG


This is the sister engine, one serial # apart. We set this one up
about 10 years ago.
It's very dark in the powerhouse, so most pics came out too dark.

http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/621374.JPG
http://www.enter.net/photoalbum/data...non/197707.JPG

This is strictly out of my bailiwick, Scott, but I am very curious--what are
such engines used for? What sort of installations? And where in the
Hoosier State did it go?

Max

"Maxprop" wrote

This is strictly out of my bailiwick, Scott, but I am very
curious--what are
such engines used for? What sort of installations? And where
in the
Hoosier State did it go?

They power generators, for electric. Most are at lumber mills or
furniture plants where they burn the sawdust as free fuel. Many
of them came from different state gov'ts. where they were
powering state hospitals and prisons. Some were just sitting,
unused for years, in the basements of old factories.

I took this one to Rockville IN. West of Indy, on 36. Been there
about 8 times now. There's a great fishing creek right in back of
the power house. I then went to Allegan MI to pick up a pair of
big condensers (or evaporators).


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

Max,

The use is possibly interesting if you understand it.

These and many other engines and turbines were used for a very simple
reason:
It is cheaper to make high pressure steam than low. This is a curious
aspect of steam, the transition for liquid to gas take fewer BTUs per
pound as pressure increases.

So- why not make high pressure steam and then let the pressure down
before you send it off to heat buildings?
- Good Idea -
If you try to simply reduct the pressure you end up with velocity
problems. But, if you use the steam in something and then exhaust it at
the desired presure and temperature, you just got the steam qaulity you
wanted and some mechanical work done for the price of the steam.

The reason engines like this were contracted well into the 20th century
is also simple:
Turbines Want Superheated Steam.
Superheat is when something is heated to greater than the saturated
temperature at that pressure (15psi heated to 250F 212).
This requires an extras part in the boiler (steam generator) called a
superheater (-duh) and makes the operation of the plant much more critical.
Reciprocating engines find little value in superheat.

If the engine runs a generator (like this one did) it can offset the
elecric load required for any large facility. One place I worked years
ago had two of these side by side. Was very much like the pictured
unit. The other had a directly conected air compressor.

Matt Colie - Again

Maxprop wrote:



This is strictly out of my bailiwick, Scott, but I am very curious--what are
such engines used for? What sort of installations? And where in the
Hoosier State did it go?

Max

Matt Colie wrote:
Max,

The use is possibly interesting if you understand it.

These and many other engines and turbines were used for a very simple
reason:
It is cheaper to make high pressure steam than low. This is a curious
aspect of steam, the transition for liquid to gas take fewer BTUs per
pound as pressure increases.


Right because the change of state (liquid to gas) takes a
huge amount of energy in itself, so that is sort of a
built-in "overhead" cost of generating steam. Once you
generated that much heat to get steam in the first place,
you might as well make a little more heat and get a lot more
steam, proportionately. It's also more effective to transfer
heat from fluid to solid when the fluid is under pressure,
so the higher steam pressure makes the transfer of heat from
the metal of the boiler to the water more efficient too.


So- why not make high pressure steam and then let the pressure down
before you send it off to heat buildings?

Or use "waste heat" steam generated from some other process?

- Good Idea -
If you try to simply reduct the pressure you end up with velocity
problems. But, if you use the steam in something and then exhaust it at
the desired presure and temperature, you just got the steam qaulity you
wanted and some mechanical work done for the price of the steam.

The reason engines like this were contracted well into the 20th century
is also simple:
Turbines Want Superheated Steam.
Superheat is when something is heated to greater than the saturated
temperature at that pressure (15psi heated to 250F 212).
This requires an extras part in the boiler (steam generator) called a
superheater (-duh) and makes the operation of the plant much more critical.
Reciprocating engines find little value in superheat.


It's also difficult to add superheaters to small boilers,
waste heat boilers, trash furnace boilers, etc etc.

If the engine runs a generator (like this one did) it can offset the
elecric load required for any large facility. One place I worked years
ago had two of these side by side. Was very much like the pictured
unit. The other had a directly conected air compressor.


As the price of fuel goes up & up, it will be interesting to
see if more of these type plants go back into operation.

DSK

And interesting comment, I think, was mentioned in the story and movie,
"Sand Pebbles" When the Motor Mech was teaching the native about the
Steam engine and High Pressure Steam and Waste Heat steam. The Chinese
Trainee got the idea when he named; "Strong Steam and Sleepy Steam"
I've used the terminology in teaching measurement of Steam Flows.



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

"Matt Colie" wrote

If the engine runs a generator (like this one did) it can
offset the
elecric load required for any large facility. One place I
worked years
ago had two of these side by side. Was very much like the
pictured
unit. The other had a directly conected air compressor.


Where was that? I don't suppose you know if they're still there?

Scotty

Matt & Scott,
I don't want to dwell on old power production, in this Sailing group,
but it is a subject closes to my heart also.

My degree is in Instrumentation but I was employed by the Atlantic
Refinery in Philadelphia. It was OLD to say the least. We had a Power
Plt. that used those Generators which produced 25 cycle power, which was
still operating in 1969 when I transferred to the operation here in the
NW ( North Slope Crude) It was necessary because of all of the equipment
that used 25 cycle that wasn't upgraded.

Ah Yes! Golden Memories!



http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/Pneuma

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Matt & Scott,
I don't want to dwell on old power production, in this Sailing
group,
but it is a subject closes to my heart also.


That's OK. it's as on topic as 90% of the posts here.

And much more manly!

Scotty