Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:

Are we saying that modern EU production line boats are not as strong as
the
ones made in 'the good old days' when things was done proper:-)

Yes, and no. Some say that a heavily laid-up boat must be intrinsically
stronger and more seaworthy than a lightweight boat. Others argue that
if a lightweight boat has adequate strength in the necessary areas then
materials saving in areas where strength is not required is not a
problem.

I'm new here, but if the 'B' word is Beneteau

No, another B.


What manufacturer is the 'B' then.

What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

/Bjarke

wrote in message
ups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:
"peter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Adrian Smith wrote:

Are we saying that modern EU production line boats are not as strong
as
the
ones made in 'the good old days' when things was done proper:-)

Yes, and no. Some say that a heavily laid-up boat must be intrinsically
stronger and more seaworthy than a lightweight boat. Others argue that
if a lightweight boat has adequate strength in the necessary areas then
materials saving in areas where strength is not required is not a
problem.

I'm new here, but if the 'B' word is Beneteau

No, another B.


What manufacturer is the 'B' then.

What manufacturers should one avoid if any?

I think maybe Bavaria.

Speaking for myself I've never had problems on the three Bavaria's I've
sailed but I have a friend who had terrible problems with Opal the
British importer.

Bjarke Christensen wrote:
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed a
Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at least
deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in Bavarias.
According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau First over
Bavaria anyday


--
Markus

Just the feel when touching the interior, the lockers, the wood and so on.
One thing I've noticed is that the floor of the Bavaria is more firm/stable
than the one of Beneteau. But I agree that it's totally subjective.

I'm in no doubt that the deck fitting of First is superior, but you have to
compare apples to apples, which in this case is Bavaria Cruiser to Beneteau
Oceanis.

Bjarke

"Markus Rautanen" wrote in message
...
Bjarke Christensen wrote:
Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed
a Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at
least deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in
Bavarias. According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau
First over Bavaria anyday


--
Markus

Bjarke Christensen wrote:
I'm in no doubt that the deck fitting of First is superior, but you
have to compare apples to apples, which in this case is Bavaria
Cruiser to Beneteau Oceanis.

I almoast wrote earlier that if you mean Beneteau Oceanis, that's a
different case. I agree with you - at least when considering older
Oceanis-models (311, 331, ...). I hear the new ones are better performing,
which wouldn't be a great accomplishment though considering the performance
of Oceanis 331...


--
Markus

Markus Rautanen wrote:
Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed a
Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at least
deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in Bavarias.
According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau First over
Bavaria anyday

http://www.sailing.hu/files/82/82558_640x480.jpg
Here's a picture of a Bavaria Match 42 keel .....
Full photo set at:
http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...ira_mare_kupa/

Report in English at:
http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

HTH.

But this is a MATCH. It's designed for performance over security, quality
and cost. It happens "every day" on performance boats. Just looking at the
keel design you can tell it's not the designed to last nor to blue water
sailing.

I'm talking Bavaria Cruiser vs B Oceanis Clipper.

No doubt that B. First is one of the better performance cruisers.

Bjarke


"BrianH" wrote in message
...
Markus Rautanen wrote:
Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed
a Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at
least deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in
Bavarias. According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau
First over Bavaria anyday

http://www.sailing.hu/files/82/82558_640x480.jpg
Here's a picture of a Bavaria Match 42 keel .....
Full photo set at:
http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...ira_mare_kupa/

Report in English at:
http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

HTH.

Bjarke Christensen wrote:
But this is a MATCH. It's designed for performance over security, quality
and cost. It happens "every day" on performance boats. Just looking at the
keel design you can tell it's not the designed to last nor to blue water
sailing.

I'm talking Bavaria Cruiser vs B Oceanis Clipper.

No doubt that B. First is one of the better performance cruisers.

Bjarke

It's certainly not designed very well for performance and isn't
performing very well in these photos. I think, generally, it has to
stay together to perform.

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Gaz

Gary wrote:

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Gaz
Sorry, stupid question. I just read the pidgeon english report.

Amazing.

Gaz

Gary wrote:

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Story he http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf