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Markus Rautanen wrote:
Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed a
Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at least
deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in Bavarias.
According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau First over
Bavaria anyday ;)

http://www.sailing.hu/files/82/82558_640x480.jpg
Here's a picture of a Bavaria Match 42 keel .....
Full photo set at:
http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...ira_mare_kupa/

Report in English at:
http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

HTH.

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But this is a MATCH. It's designed for performance over security, quality
and cost. It happens "every day" on performance boats. Just looking at the
keel design you can tell it's not the designed to last nor to blue water
sailing.

I'm talking Bavaria Cruiser vs B Oceanis Clipper.

No doubt that B. First is one of the better performance cruisers.

Bjarke


"BrianH" wrote in message
...
Markus Rautanen wrote:
Bjarke Christensen wrote:

Don't know about the hull but to me Bavaria feels more well build than
Beneteau....

Would you mind telling us what's your opinion based at? I've never sailed
a Bavaria, but I've been to them in boat shows. It seemed to me that at
least deck-equipment were much better in Beneteau First -line than in
Bavarias. According to this wast experience I have - I'd have Beneteau
First over Bavaria anyday ;)

http://www.sailing.hu/files/82/82558_640x480.jpg
Here's a picture of a Bavaria Match 42 keel .....
Full photo set at:
http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...ira_mare_kupa/

Report in English at:
http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

HTH.

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Commodore Joe Redcloud© writes:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:15:35 -0500, DSK wrote:

Some will even claim that 'back in the
old days' the boat builders did not know how strong
fiberglass was, so they made it incredibly thick & strong.
The fact is that engineering data was available on
fiberglass from the early 1950s on, readily available to
those who cared to look... is ignorance a good excuse?

The reason early fiberglass boats were built on the heavy side was not
because builders didn't know how strong it was. That may have been a
factor for a few, as not all boat builders are on the cutting edge of
technologhy at all times.

Most boat builders aren't even aware of where the cutting edge is.

--
================================================== ======================
Martin Schöön

"Problems worthy of attack
prove their worth by hitting back"
Piet Hein
================================================== ======================

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Bjarke Christensen wrote:
I'm in no doubt that the deck fitting of First is superior, but you
have to compare apples to apples, which in this case is Bavaria
Cruiser to Beneteau Oceanis.

I almoast wrote earlier that if you mean Beneteau Oceanis, that's a
different case. I agree with you - at least when considering older
Oceanis-models (311, 331, ...). I hear the new ones are better performing,
which wouldn't be a great accomplishment though considering the performance
of Oceanis 331... ;)


--
Markus

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Bjarke Christensen wrote:
But this is a MATCH. It's designed for performance over security, quality
and cost. It happens "every day" on performance boats. Just looking at the
keel design you can tell it's not the designed to last nor to blue water
sailing.

I'm talking Bavaria Cruiser vs B Oceanis Clipper.

No doubt that B. First is one of the better performance cruisers.

Bjarke

It's certainly not designed very well for performance and isn't
performing very well in these photos. I think, generally, it has to
stay together to perform.

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Gaz

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Gary wrote:

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Gaz
Sorry, stupid question. I just read the pidgeon english report.

Amazing.

Gaz

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Gary wrote:

Did the keel fall off or did the boat hit something?

Story he http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

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I assume all Bavaria's are made in Germany.

This boat I sailed was a 34 or 35' boat. I can't recall the
exact model. It might have been a little bigger. It seemed
to be a fairly new boat that was immediately put in charter.
There were no scratches on the hull and the interior looked
showroom new.

I can offer no explanation other than I found poor lifelines
terminations in this European Bavaria I sailed. It was quite
shocking to see the wire bent in a loop and clamped with
such cheap clamps.

Given the German reputation for so many other products I
would think they could do better. Every lifeline was this way
so I assume it was not a repair but the construction standard.

There were nice swaged lifeline fittings on the US Bavaria I saw.
This was a bigger boat and my impression was that it was nice
but not what I would purchase.

Perhaps this difference was a function of the year the boat was
built, or the model, or perhaps the US brokers upgraded them
because any customer seeing poorly terminated lifelines would
have laughed and walked away thinking the rest of the boat was
built so cheaply. It gave me a very bad impression.

This Bavaria I sailed in Barcelona was paid for by my girlfriends
company, as was the whole trip. I asked the hired Captain about
the boat and he told me the reputation of the Bavaria yachts was
very poor and that it was below that of all the other major builders.
It was after this that I noticed the lifelines, and pointed them out
and he shrugged and said, "it is as I said."

It may be that a few things, easy to correct, can be found on
the boat and the overall quality might be better than supposed.

I would like to hear other examples of such poor construction
on these boats--not just general impressions.

The boat sailed ok. It was a light air day and I found the helm
somewhat neutral to steer. I would have preferred a bit more
weather helm for a better feel. To give a proper evaluation I'd
need to sail it in windier conditions. I thought the winches were
rather small, but this is typical of all production boats in this class.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej,
I tought they were all build on the same factory in Germany ??

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote
It depends whether the Bavaria was made for Europe or the US.

I found the build quality in European Bavarias to be low grade.

For example. Life-line terminations. Good swages in the
US, cheap loops and clamps on a Bavaria I sailed in Barecelona.

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You have to be joking Bjarke! Even in racing boats,
keel bolts have backing plates. This is an obvious
error in construction and reveal serious quality control
and perhaps also a design problem.

"Bjarke Christensen" (nej,
But this is a MATCH. It's designed for performance over security, quality
and cost. It happens "every day" on performance boats. Just looking at the
keel design you can tell it's not the designed to last nor to blue water
sailing.

"BrianH" wrote
http://www.sailing.hu/files/82/82558_640x480.jpg
Here's a picture of a Bavaria Match 42 keel .....
Full photo set at:
http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...ira_mare_kupa/

Report in English at:
http://team.sailing.hu/Accident%20in%20Croatia.pdf

HTH.