Least safe cars!:
 

Robert Broady said:

Chances are excellent that your "American made" sails were cut and
stitched here out of materials made in another country.


Dupont...American Company

You must be thinking about your French boat.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

This is a key moment in defining the values of Bobspirt.


Yup, patriotism and loyalty are to be earned. Or as Peter Hastings on
BBR said today, "The American car buyer has finally had enough of what
has amounted to abuse of their loyalty to the US builders."
He then went on to say that DESIGN was the key area of failure for the
US builders, pointing out that Nissan and Honda won the truck market in
just 24 months with superior concepts.
Not a single US built SUV can match my Tribeca at ANY price, or even a
Honda Pilot for that matter and that's not even full time AWD!!!

RB
35s5
NY

Least safe cars!:
 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:27:06 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

It is truly American to buy the best product available for your money,
regardless of where it came from. That's capitalism and freedom!

Anything else is tribalistic jingoism.

Amen!

Agreed.

As one who ran manufacturing operations and is now unemployed as a
result of globalizaition, I have strong feelings on the subject.

Open competition is good. The consumer should be given a choice
between quality and cost and determine what value means to him.
Problem is, todays CEO's are taking away that choice.

I had the last domestic operation in my industry and the most
repected product. My product cost approximately 15% more than the
competition which was all Chinese and of questionable quality. My
business was growing because many continued to make the choice for
quality. Corporate decision to consolidate my location and outsource
about 70 percent of my business to China shut me down. It was pure
greed coupled with junior achievement management. I was making money
and growing but it is like the goose that was laying the golden egg.
Lets kill the goose and see where the gold is.

The results of this brilliant strategy. Sales are lower, profits are
lower, that reputation that had been maintained for 75 years is fading
at a rapid pace, 350 good people are out of work, the consumer of the
product has no choice but to accept poor quality because that is all
there is. The Chinese in this type of manufacture use processes that
were used in the '40s and '50s in the U. S. Batch manufacturing with
lots of set up breaks going from one junk machine to another. Casting
processes with individuals compacting sand by stomping on it in the
molds.

The brilliant strategists - when it became apparent what they had
done, sold the group and are still there to wreak havoc again.

The Japanese car makers competed honestly, basing their process on
Demming's, an American, system of statistical process control. Demming
went to the U. S. companies first and got laughed out of their
offices.Today, most U. S. Companies have adopted similar systems.
The Japs forced this and that was a good thing. U. S. cars are better
by far today than they were 25 years ago. The Chinese are bringing
nothing to the table but indentured servitude labor. A communist
Country that only takes care of the rich brokers who get the advantage
of that cheap labor.

My $.02 worth

Frank

Least safe cars!:
 

Not a single US built SUV can match my Tribeca at ANY price


why fer gawds sake would they want to. It's Ugly, has no leg room, is
over priced and has poor preformance.

You should have bought a nice Chevy Suburban like all the other house
wifes.


Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Everything America leads the world requires the workforce be highly
education.

You mean highly educated right?

No, education.


Education drives unions and low skilled labor away. Send jobs for
the ignorant to China

Right , you think the Chinese are stupid and un-educated?

As long as they stay in factory jobs.

Your in for a rude awakening, I know of many high tech products being
designed on US software by Chinese optical engineers in china for US
made products. Why pay a Phd or Master's degreed engineer here 150K
when you can find one in China for 30K.

Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these high
tech products? What is the software?

It's not a question of pay. It's a question of productivity. If I pay an
engineer in China 30K and he produces 1M$ of value, and I pay a US engineer
150K and he produces 2M$ of value, which engineer provides the most
production? Which engineer provides the greatest return on investment? Which
is the better engineer to hire?



keep the commies stupid.


I'm not worried at all. America will always be first in the hardest,
most
sophisticated industrial arenas.

Until all of our bright kids are working at Home-Depot or Burger King
because they can not find work here.

There's plenty of work for bright kids. Smart lawyers do well, the medical
field is going gang busters. There are too many engineers in this country.
We could use about 1/3 - 1/2 as many. Why is it that everyone believes smart
kids should study science and math? All the smart kids I know that studied
science and math and are now grown up are telling their kids to avoid
engineering and science careers.



Why? Because bean counting became priorty over making sure we remainded
the leader by training and fostering design and engineering here.

What is so important about fostering design and engineering here in the US?
If it is important, increase the pay for engineers. The high paying jobs are
in finance and lawyering. Good God, entry level nurses make more than
engineers with a decade of experience.

It's
not just grunt labor anymore Bob.

Engineers are treated like grunt labor. Layoffs every few years, abuse of
overtime (60-80 hour work weeks), reduction in benefits, no continuing
education, if you are over 35 you are toast. The IT guys have it even worse.

Look at America's highest paid groups:

Movie stars/ entertainers: generally high school education, only Bill Cosby
has PhD.

Athletes: college educated, usually in some goof ball major.

Corporate CEO's : some are educated, Bill Gates did not finish college.
Education is not really a factor.

So why would someone who is smart want to work so hard for relatively so
little? An experienced engineer may make 1.5 - 2 times what the UPS guy
makes with no overtime pay and work 60 hours/week. An
entertainer/athlete/CEO makes 10-500 times what an engineer makes for the
same work hours.

America needs less engineers and scientists.


Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:27:06 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

It is truly American to buy the best product available for your money,
regardless of where it came from. That's capitalism and freedom!

Anything else is tribalistic jingoism.

Amen!

Agreed.

As one who ran manufacturing operations and is now unemployed as a
result of globalizaition, I have strong feelings on the subject.

Open competition is good. The consumer should be given a choice
between quality and cost and determine what value means to him.
Problem is, todays CEO's are taking away that choice.

I had the last domestic operation in my industry and the most
repected product. My product cost approximately 15% more than the
competition which was all Chinese and of questionable quality. My
business was growing because many continued to make the choice for
quality. Corporate decision to consolidate my location and outsource
about 70 percent of my business to China shut me down. It was pure
greed coupled with junior achievement management. I was making money
and growing but it is like the goose that was laying the golden egg.
Lets kill the goose and see where the gold is.

The results of this brilliant strategy. Sales are lower, profits are
lower, that reputation that had been maintained for 75 years is fading
at a rapid pace, 350 good people are out of work, the consumer of the
product has no choice but to accept poor quality because that is all
there is. The Chinese in this type of manufacture use processes that
were used in the '40s and '50s in the U. S. Batch manufacturing with
lots of set up breaks going from one junk machine to another. Casting
processes with individuals compacting sand by stomping on it in the
molds.

The brilliant strategists - when it became apparent what they had
done, sold the group and are still there to wreak havoc again.

The Japanese car makers competed honestly, basing their process on
Demming's, an American, system of statistical process control. Demming
went to the U. S. companies first and got laughed out of their
offices.Today, most U. S. Companies have adopted similar systems.
The Japs forced this and that was a good thing. U. S. cars are better
by far today than they were 25 years ago. The Chinese are bringing
nothing to the table but indentured servitude labor. A communist
Country that only takes care of the rich brokers who get the advantage
of that cheap labor.

My $.02 worth

Frank


Well said, especially about junior achievement management.

Least safe cars!:
 

Here Here, Just 1 hour ago Dana announced they will have to lay off
800 Canooks. They musta made crappy stuff...no one wanted to buy.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/new...A-JOBS-COL.XML

Least safe cars!:
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here Here, Just 1 hour ago Dana announced they will have to lay off
800 Canooks. They musta made crappy stuff...no one wanted to buy.


http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/new...A-JOBS-COL.XML


Do you realize how many people making buggy whips were laid off when the
automobile became mass produced?

All of the coal shovelers out of work because of the diesel locomotive?

All of those out of work because of the invention of the knitting machine?

The demise of ocean travel industry because of reliable airplanes?

Say it ain't so Joe!

Least safe cars!:
 

So your saying axles are now obsolete?

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

Education drives unions and low skilled labor away. Send jobs for
the ignorant to China

Right , you think the Chinese are stupid and un-educated?


Bob Crantz wrote:
As long as they stay in factory jobs.


Not everybody in China works in a factory!


Your in for a rude awakening, I know of many high tech products being
designed on US software by Chinese optical engineers in china for US
made products. Why pay a Phd or Master's degreed engineer here 150K
when you can find one in China for 30K.


The only postgrad engineers I know of making $150K are ones
on the Board of Directors of the companies they work for.

Joe, you're dreaming again.


Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these high
tech products? What is the software?

I'd like to know, too.
I know a number of Chinese engineers who are moving back to
China because they can make more money there.





Look at America's highest paid groups:

Movie stars/ entertainers: generally high school education, only Bill Cosby
has PhD.

Athletes: college educated, usually in some goof ball major.

Corporate CEO's : some are educated, Bill Gates did not finish college.
Education is not really a factor.

So why would someone who is smart want to work so hard for relatively so
little? An experienced engineer may make 1.5 - 2 times what the UPS guy
makes with no overtime pay and work 60 hours/week. An
entertainer/athlete/CEO makes 10-500 times what an engineer makes for the
same work hours.

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Hmmm, an interesting conclusion.

DSK

Least safe cars!:
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Education drives unions and low skilled labor away. Send jobs for
the ignorant to China

Right , you think the Chinese are stupid and un-educated?


Bob Crantz wrote:
As long as they stay in factory jobs.


Not everybody in China works in a factory!

Some work in restaraunts! Or pulling rickshaws!



Your in for a rude awakening, I know of many high tech products being
designed on US software by Chinese optical engineers in china for US
made products. Why pay a Phd or Master's degreed engineer here 150K
when you can find one in China for 30K.


The only postgrad engineers I know of making $150K are ones
on the Board of Directors of the companies they work for.

Or own their own company.


Joe, you're dreaming again.


Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In
fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these
high
tech products? What is the software?

I'd like to know, too.
I know a number of Chinese engineers who are moving back to
China because they can make more money there.

I also know of engineers who left the country for higher pay and better
working conditions.





Look at America's highest paid groups:

Movie stars/ entertainers: generally high school education, only Bill
Cosby
has PhD.

Athletes: college educated, usually in some goof ball major.

Corporate CEO's : some are educated, Bill Gates did not finish college.
Education is not really a factor.

So why would someone who is smart want to work so hard for relatively so
little? An experienced engineer may make 1.5 - 2 times what the UPS guy
makes with no overtime pay and work 60 hours/week. An
entertainer/athlete/CEO makes 10-500 times what an engineer makes for
the
same work hours.

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Hmmm, an interesting conclusion.

The pay is low because the supply is great. The claims of engineer shortage
is misleading. There are plenty of engineers. The shortage is of ones that
are real cheap.

Look through the engineering ads. How often do you see one asking for 20-30
years experience? 99% want entry level or 5-7 years tops.

It's the employers that cry about shortages. They don't want to pay and they
don't want to (God forbid!) invest in training or education.

If there were less engineers and scientists, there would be less
unemployment.




DSK

Least safe cars!:
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
So your saying axles are now obsolete?

Joe


Take a look at cars. Most are front wheel drive with independent suspension.
Vehicles are designed to last longer, even American ones. You can only build
so many cars. The Dana axles are for trucks and large SUV's.

Amen!

Least safe cars!:
 

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
....

You probably also frequent Dunkin Donuts without realizing it's owned
by the French.


Nope - it was just sold back to the US; the agreement was last week to
be finalize in Q1. The lead buyer is Bain Capital, the Boston based
venture firm created by Mitt Romney.

Least safe cars!:
 

Doug, I own a recruiting firm that places engineers.
If you like..... I will be happy to send you information to your
e-mail account.


Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

In article . net,
Bob Crantz wrote:
Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these high
tech products? What is the software?

Actually, they do around here.

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Fewer not less.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Least safe cars!:
 

Joe wrote:

Doug, I own a recruiting firm that places engineers.
If you like..... I will be happy to send you information to your
e-mail account.



OK

Make sure you include the ones specifying Masters+ and
paying $150K and up.

Got my email addy?

DSK

Least safe cars!:
 

Least safe cars!:
 

Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
On 20 Dec 2005 09:50:54 -0800, "Joe" wrote:


England .........our allies... and I bought it used. Has a Ford Main
engine BTW and all new American made sails.

How about you Frenchie?
Joe


For starters, your boat was positively NOT made in England. It was
also not made in the US. I did the research and found out where a boat
virtually identical to yours was built, and it sure wasn't from
England!

Were you aware that "American" cars have a large percentage of parts
made in mostly Asian countries? A LARGE percentage.

Same goes for Harley.

Unless your boat has been repowered since it was brought to the States
as an IMPORT, the Ford engine was not U.S. made. They have plants all
over the world.

Chances are excellent that your "American made" sails were cut and
stitched here out of materials made in another country.

You probably also frequent Dunkin Donuts without realizing it's owned
by the French.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©
Do Americans make any consumer products these days? I know you have it
all over bombs, guns and spaceships but what about ordinary stuff?

Least safe cars!:
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Bob Crantz wrote:
Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In
fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these
high
tech products? What is the software?

Actually, they do around here.

You're right but it is the cost of living (housing) that drives up the
salaries there. Houses cost triple and salaries go up 50%.

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Fewer not less.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Least safe cars!:
 

What kind of engineers?



"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Doug, I own a recruiting firm that places engineers.
If you like..... I will be happy to send you information to your
e-mail account.


Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

Specialized engineers in a narrow nitch.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

That must have been the "good no rattle experimental Vette" they
built!!!! Too bad they couldn't do the rest. You sound rediculous.
Every long term test of Vette's complained of rattles and fit and
finish. Oh, and learn someting aboat cars. An Acura NSX is twice the
Vette and with a far more refined suspension system..

You really live in the past Boob****. People haven't bitched about
Vette rattles for years. That's old school. The current Corvette is
considered a world class high performance sports car for a bargain
price. And wait until the new ZO6 hits the street. As far as the NSX
goes all everybody ever says is that it's a reliable mid engine sports
car. Nobody has ever just reviewed/compared it on it's merits alone.

Least safe cars!:
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Specialized engineers in a narrow nitch.

Joe


niche. So how many PhD's does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Praise!

Least safe cars!:
 

I'd be more concerned by how many it takes to design one.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

"Gary" wrote in message
news:FE%pf.150854$ki.69682@pd7tw2no...
Commodore Joe Redcloud© wrote:
On 20 Dec 2005 09:50:54 -0800, "Joe" wrote:


England .........our allies... and I bought it used. Has a Ford Main
engine BTW and all new American made sails.

How about you Frenchie?
Joe


For starters, your boat was positively NOT made in England. It was
also not made in the US. I did the research and found out where a boat
virtually identical to yours was built, and it sure wasn't from
England!

Were you aware that "American" cars have a large percentage of parts
made in mostly Asian countries? A LARGE percentage.

Same goes for Harley.

Unless your boat has been repowered since it was brought to the States
as an IMPORT, the Ford engine was not U.S. made. They have plants all
over the world.

Chances are excellent that your "American made" sails were cut and
stitched here out of materials made in another country.

You probably also frequent Dunkin Donuts without realizing it's owned
by the French.


Commodore Joe Redcloud©
Do Americans make any consumer products these days? I know you have it
all over bombs, guns and spaceships but what about ordinary stuff?

welders, boats, cooking utensils, bbq grills, molded rubber products,
ceramics, epoxies and resins, pens, pencils, tires, light bulbs, rope,
envelopes, nose hair removers and beauty products.

Least safe cars!:
 

Do any work with carbon arc lamps?

Glory!

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'd be more concerned by how many it takes to design one.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

Only search lights on boats.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

Bob !!!!!
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
I don't look at this from an economic point of view but the political
and social points of view. The question really is whether America can
remain a great power or a dominant power if it becomes a primarily
service economy, and I doubt that. A country has to have an industrial
base in order to play a significant role in the world. And I am
concerned from that point of view.


America is the greatest world power.

America has a service based economy.

A service based economy can be the world power.


America does have a great industrial base. Cars are a commodity, labor
costs
are a big factor for commodities.

America leads in aircraft manufacturing. Aircraft are using more and more
composites so traditional machinists are being displaced.
America leads the world in financial services.
America leads the world in investment potential.
America leads the world in paper production, electrical generation, rocket
production, aluminum production, arms manufacturing, medicine,
pharmaceticals, house building, oil refining etc.

Everything America leads the world requires the workforce be highly
education. Education drives unions and low skilled labor away. Send jobs
for
the ignorant to China - keep the Commies stupid.

I'm not worried at all. America will always be first in the hardest, most
sophisticated industrial arenas. Leave the easy stuff for foriegners.

Amen!

Least safe cars!:
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yeah real short sighted self centered Americans do so....Thats the
problem.


Clowns like Bobspirt think they help Americans when they buy a toyota
ect because they are put together here, citing the American workers who
benefit from the purchase of a Toyota ...you know the Teamsters, sales
personnel and service personnel.

These same people, however, would benefit from the purchase of a
U.S.-built vehicle. Additionally, the design, engineering, information
services, human resources, manufacturing and purchasing personnel, us
suppliers, the tier 1s 2s 3s etc., would also benefit from the purchase
of a U.S.-built car. Not so with the Jap crap.

Now that GM has announced its intentions to eliminate 30,000 U.S. jobs,
does Robert see how this could possibly affect him?

How bout you Beck?

There will potentially be 30,000 fewer Americans in the market for a
new or used home, to invest in the markets, to pay for college, to take
a vacation, to pay taxes, etc.

Unfortunately, too many people won't realize the flaw in their decision
not to buy American until it affects them personally, and then it will
be too late for all of us.

Joe



Have my own business , That would be an American business I fix cars, every
job I ever had was in America it is a service world in which we live!!!! Its
like I said about JUNK doesn't matter what name is on it.... But worked for
a toyota dealer for 20 years maintenance is a easy life!

The U.S auto manufacturers do not have a clue , dates back to the 70's just
give us the same old crap we'll buy it , almost sounds like a song. The
problem with the American econ is I'LL DRIVE WHAT DADDY DROVE!!! Stuck in a
rut...........The student is now teaching the teacher.... Welcome to
reality. World Market
JB

Least safe cars!:
 

Lincoln! ..

Hey indian, your a dimwit too when it comes to cars. I picture you as
driving an old F150. The Lincoln LS V8 Sport was designed to compete
with the BMW 540 and it does so for $15k-$20k less. It's not your
daddy's Lincoln. On top of that it's an American car vs a German car
and the LS has only a handfull of TSBs where as the 540 has over 50.
Why does every BMW owner say "trade it in before the warranty expires"

Least safe cars!:
 

That would be a Chrysler mini van Bob!!!
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Just think if we had a level playing field with the Japs. We could buy
a new corvette for 16K, and put 100's of millions more into R&D.


If only a new Vette was any good and not a rattle-box after just 6
months. I'm not going to buy junk just because I feel bad that my
country doesn't have a level playing field. It's also a farce since the
the US has proven that poor design is at the heart of it's failure. Not
only can't we build a good car, we can't get one on paper either.
My Tribeca is a "new" car 1st year model and has not had a single
problem of any kind, has the highest crash rating EVER measured for
it's class and leads for handling and braking. A 10th generation
Chrysler Minivan can't touch it nor could any Ford Explorer.
I'm sorry. Spend YOUR money on USA junk. I'll use mine more wisely.


RB
35s5
NY


If you buy junk, you subsidize incompetence.

Who would go to a surgeon that kills 25% of his patients just so that
surgeon has work?

Who would send their kid to a school, that after 12 years, the kid can't
read?

Who would buy a mini van knowing that the transmission will need to be
replaced in 60K miles and have to pay for it?

If buying American is so essential and good, why not ban all imports?

Buy the best and forget the rest.

Amen!

Jesus drives a Subaru Tribeca!

Least safe cars!:
 

In article FE%pf.150854$ki.69682@pd7tw2no,
Gary wrote:
Do Americans make any consumer products these days? I know you have it
all over bombs, guns and spaceships but what about ordinary stuff?

We're really good at making lousy burgers.





--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Least safe cars!:
 

Thank God you got home!!!
JB
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Right, The guy in the next slip has a 2 yo Z vette. Ive rode and drove
it several times. Show me a jap car with 505 HP under 62K. BTW no
rattles at all. Great feedback and it will pin you to your seats.

I not a fan of vetts myself, If in that kind of market I'd buy a ford
GT or a Saleen S7 both great american cars.

Have you seen the new Dodge Charger ?
How bout the Dodge Hemi wagon? Great family car. It don't look like a
vagina either.

Keep your jap crap pin head. I hope when your boy grows up and wants a
job he can find one.

""The ultimate test of a man's conscience and wisdom may be his
willingness to sacrifice something today for future generations whose
words of thanks will not be heard." " -- Gaylord Nelson

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

Joe wrote:
Specialized engineers in a narrow nitch.

Joe

niche

Least safe cars!:
 

In article . net,
Bob Crantz wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Bob Crantz wrote:
Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In
fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these
high
tech products? What is the software?

Actually, they do around here.

You're right but it is the cost of living (housing) that drives up the
salaries there. Houses cost triple and salaries go up 50%.

True enough... but housing prices are probably going to decline again
soon.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Least safe cars!:
 

Soooo, The british are cool but not the chinooks or the spics in your words
.. Get over it, move on!
"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
It was buildt by or fine allies the British. And I'm proud to support
countries that support America.

I bought her used here in Texas from a Texan.

Spent many thousands using American companies and supplies restoring
her. She is wrapped in American paint applied by Americans using
American paint brushes. Parts of her steel hull now have American steel
welded in place by American welders.

Even when doing bottom jobs I use the outfit in the yard that has
Americans doing the grunt work, not cheaper illegal Mexican labor.

She has a Ford main engine, All of her new electronics are American
made, same with the sails, and the computor im typing with now.

My boat purchace in 1994 has had nothing but positive effects on
American companies.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

So noisey you couldn't hear them. That's why they make them in convertibles
.
JB
"rgnmstr" wrote in message
ups.com...
That must have been the "good no rattle experimental Vette" they
built!!!! Too bad they couldn't do the rest. You sound rediculous.
Every long term test of Vette's complained of rattles and fit and
finish. Oh, and learn someting aboat cars. An Acura NSX is twice the
Vette and with a far more refined suspension system..

You really live in the past Boob****. People haven't bitched about
Vette rattles for years. That's old school. The current Corvette is
considered a world class high performance sports car for a bargain
price. And wait until the new ZO6 hits the street. As far as the NSX
goes all everybody ever says is that it's a reliable mid engine sports
car. Nobody has ever just reviewed/compared it on it's merits alone.

Least safe cars!:
 

My boat was made in california , my truck a Toyota in Indiana. Trust me I
know where they come from. The heartbeat of America is made in
Canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Fords,, The just reuse scrape metal ,, What A POS.
JB
"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
...
On 20 Dec 2005 08:53:11 -0800, "Joe" wrote:

Yeah real short sighted self centered Americans do so....Thats the
problem.


Clowns like Bobspirt think they help Americans when they buy a toyota
ect because they are put together here, citing the American workers who
benefit from the purchase of a Toyota ...you know the Teamsters, sales
personnel and service personnel.

These same people, however, would benefit from the purchase of a
U.S.-built vehicle. Additionally, the design, engineering, information
services, human resources, manufacturing and purchasing personnel, us
suppliers, the tier 1s 2s 3s etc., would also benefit from the purchase
of a U.S.-built car. Not so with the Jap crap.

Now that GM has announced its intentions to eliminate 30,000 U.S. jobs,
does Robert see how this could possibly affect him?

How bout you Beck?

There will potentially be 30,000 fewer Americans in the market for a
new or used home, to invest in the markets, to pay for college, to take
a vacation, to pay taxes, etc.

Unfortunately, too many people won't realize the flaw in their decision
not to buy American until it affects them personally, and then it will
be too late for all of us.

Joe

Where was your boat made?


Commodore Joe Redcloud©

Least safe cars!:
 

How bout that C8 Dupont never told anybody about. A carcinogen. Grew up
near a dupont plant still wonder whats in it for me????
"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
Robert Broady said:

Chances are excellent that your "American made" sails were cut and
stitched here out of materials made in another country.


Dupont...American Company

You must be thinking about your French boat.

Joe

Least safe cars!:
 

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Hmmm, an interesting conclusion.


Bob Crantz wrote:
The pay is low because the supply is great. The claims of engineer shortage
is misleading. There are plenty of engineers. The shortage is of ones that
are real cheap.


The shortage is of *good* ones that will work cheaply enough
to convince an army of beancounters to keep work here in the
U.S.


Look through the engineering ads. How often do you see one asking for 20-30
years experience? 99% want entry level or 5-7 years tops.


Honestly don't know, I am lucky enough to have not needed to
look for a job in years. In fact over a decade now, a
personal record ;)


It's the employers that cry about shortages. They don't want to pay and they
don't want to (God forbid!) invest in training or education.


That's true.

If there were less engineers and scientists, there would be less
unemployment.


Also true if there were less people. And we know how to
solve that, don't we!

DSK