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Maybe your experiences in school led you to have these
prejudices against teachers? Dave wrote: My conclusions about today's unionized teachers do indeed derive in part from my own experiences in school Where you were ridiculed constantly for being so gullible & dumb? ... You see, my school days were before teachers became unionized, and my father was for a number of years the president of the local school board. I see. In other words, in the perpetual war between teachers and administrators, you hunker down on the administrator side. Why am I not surprised. Fast forward 20 years and the teachers in the public schools are almost without exception drawn from the ranks of those who can't master any substantive field and so study "education." Not surprised, again, to see that this is your attitude. You are part of the problem, and so it's not a bit surprising that you loudly & repeatedly miss all clues pointing towards a solution. DSK |
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How about freeing teacher's salaries from taxes? An easy way to give
them a raise without costing residents a penny. Ole Thom |
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Freeing Salary from taxes wouldn't give the Unions an excuse to raise
dues either |
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You are completely and totally wrong.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Dave" wrote in message ... Fast forward 20 years and the teachers in the public schools are almost without exception drawn from the ranks of those who can't master any substantive field and so study "education." Unionized. No merit pay. No work beyond the minimum required in the union contract. Impossible to fire if they're incompetent. And it's 30 years and out. |
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Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on
supplies that the schools should, but don't supply. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should not have to pay for their own supplies, for example. They don't. |
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Good idea. Some states give teachers tax breaks or provide them the
opportunity to purchase homes at reduced rates. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... How about freeing teacher's salaries from taxes? An easy way to give them a raise without costing residents a penny. Ole Thom |
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Not here they don't.
"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on supplies that the schools should, but don't supply. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should not have to pay for their own supplies, for example. They don't. |
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"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:40:20 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: Perhaps you simply have no ability to make your points concise and understandable. Of course it's always easier to blame everyone but yourself for the misperception. I never considered that I might have to "dumb down" my posts for you to be able to grasp them. I guess you are among those that the education system has failed to educate. Yeah, right. I understood your premise, but found it erroneously presented. Present your arguments intelligently and you won't become a target. Not even close. Unless you have kids that *want* an education, you're barking up a tree in the wrong forest. The solution must begin at home, where kids have to be instilled with the desire to be educated, and convinced that an education is critical to their future well-being. Of course if their parent(s) is/are clueless to these issues, the kid will be similarly clueless. The state requires the kid to attend school, which he/she hates and wants nothing more than to avoid. It can be the best, most innovative and efficient educational program in existence, but futile if the kid isn't interested. There you go, being small minded, and short sighted again, Jeff. Improve the education system so that successive generations will have more and more chance of being raised by parents that DO have a clue. The cultural rejection of education is self-perpetuating. You can alter and inprove the system until it encompasses the entire GDP and you'll still have a culture of people for whom education means nothing. (Hint: don't read race here--this culture of ignorance crosses racial lines rather nicely) The process must begin at home. We constantly hear how "bright" oriental students are; how they almost universally excel in primary, secondary, and college-level programs. Do you honestly believe they are genetically superior in terms of brilliance and the ability to learn and absorb? The primary difference between them and those who fail the educational process is parental/family motivation. Without that, the whole process is an exercise in futility. Throwing money at education has been tried, and it has failed. Answer this: why, if the system is so broken, do so many excel within the existing one? That's always the best concept, but you've got the methods all wrong. Well, I agree that a better education would not have helped you much, Jeffy. Care to compare advanced degrees? GPAs? Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... I think it starts, as you said, with instilling the desire to learn in kids from their parents. So, part of it is to try and keep families together, or if that's not possible, A lofty goal, to be sure, but we already have three or four generations of people (crossing all racial and ethnic lines, by the way) who are convinced that the two-parent home is obsolete and that education is pointless. The situation is exacerbating, not remitting. ensure that single parents have enough bandwidth to help their kids and still earn a decent wage. Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? We need to pay teachers more, since this will attract better teachers. Numerous studies have demonstrated redundantly that money is not the prime motivator in attracting individuals to certain professions, teaching included. But tying the teacher's hands with respect to discipline, leaving him prone to litigation, open to student abuse, and hating his/her job is hardly conducive to attracting quality individuals to education. Once again the *solution* of throwing money at the problem is and has been a failure. We need to test kids, but not put the emphasis of teaching to the test. Of course, all this smacks of socialism, but actually it makes good business sense. Education in the USA is highly socialistic already, so what's the big deal. A proper identification of the problem is the answer, however. Too bad that every time the problem is examined under a microscope and the real issues are unearthed, the political correctness police prohibit airing and dealing with them. Heaven forbid that we might examine the drawbacks of single-parent families, cultural anti-education biases, etc. Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message "DSK" wrote in message It's all communism, comrade. Why do you think a baby's first words are invariably "Da Da"? My grandson's first word was "nyet." Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. I won't accuse you of being a boy scout, but what a fairy tale. Sadly it doesn't work that way in our society. For example, is a pediatrician ($150K per year) of less value to society than a major league pitcher ($5-15million per year)? Is a college professor ($60K to 200K per year) of less value than a movie producer (up to $200 million per year or more)? People are paid based upon the relative rarity of their abilities. Almost any reasonably intelligent individual can teach high school history, but very few can average 22 points per game in the NBA or knock out two movies every three years that will gross $800 million apiece. Max |
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"DSK" wrote in message .. . Maxprop wrote: My logic is fine, despite your disagreement. Hurling insults and repeating oneself endlessly is not "logic." Did you go to public schools? Take a look at your own posts, Doug. You are truly the *King* of hurling insults and redundantly proclaiming your opinion to be gospel. I find your posts to be offensive and arrogant moreso than those of any other poster here. You are more than capable of cogent arguments, but for some arcane reason you consistently find it necessary to attack your opponent with ad hominems and comments such as the one above about public education. Why you find it expedient to whine about others doing the same to you is puzzling. Max |
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I'm pretty sure Cal has such a program... I'm not sure it's for all level of
teacher. I'll ask my friend. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... Not here they don't. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on supplies that the schools should, but don't supply. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should not have to pay for their own supplies, for example. They don't. |
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Well, I said close. Besides, a major league pitcher is much more valued than
a doctor, and that says a whole lot about the society. I don't think relative rarity is a good measure either. If that were the case, buggy whip makers would be billionaires. Some of them could make extraordinary buggy whips. Of course Bill Gates can make extraordinarily buggy software... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... "Capt. JG" wrote in message Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. I won't accuse you of being a boy scout, but what a fairy tale. Sadly it doesn't work that way in our society. For example, is a pediatrician ($150K per year) of less value to society than a major league pitcher ($5-15million per year)? Is a college professor ($60K to 200K per year) of less value than a movie producer (up to $200 million per year or more)? People are paid based upon the relative rarity of their abilities. Almost any reasonably intelligent individual can teach high school history, but very few can average 22 points per game in the NBA or knock out two movies every three years that will gross $800 million apiece. Max |
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"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... I think it starts, as you said, with instilling the desire to learn in kids from their parents. So, part of it is to try and keep families together, or if that's not possible, A lofty goal, to be sure, but we already have three or four generations of people (crossing all racial and ethnic lines, by the way) who are convinced that the two-parent home is obsolete and that education is pointless. The situation is exacerbating, not remitting. Well, you may be right, but one has to fight against the tide, else be drawn along with it. ensure that single parents have enough bandwidth to help their kids and still earn a decent wage. Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they actually have time to spend with the kids. We need to pay teachers more, since this will attract better teachers. Numerous studies have demonstrated redundantly that money is not the prime motivator in attracting individuals to certain professions, teaching included. But tying the teacher's hands with respect to discipline, leaving him prone to litigation, open to student abuse, and hating his/her job is hardly conducive to attracting quality individuals to education. Once again the *solution* of throwing money at the problem is and has been a failure. Something being a prime motivator has only a little to do with making it financially viable for people take on a profession. I don't think raising teacher salaries can be defined realistically as throwing money at a problem. We need to test kids, but not put the emphasis of teaching to the test. Of course, all this smacks of socialism, but actually it makes good business sense. Education in the USA is highly socialistic already, so what's the big deal. A proper identification of the problem is the answer, however. Too bad that every time the problem is examined under a microscope and the real issues are unearthed, the political correctness police prohibit airing and dealing with them. Heaven forbid that we might examine the drawbacks of single-parent families, cultural anti-education biases, etc. I think we would all benefit from knowing the answers. However, just because someone is a single parent does not preclude doing a good job with one's kids. |
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Scotty,
I'm not complaining, just clarifying: I usually drop a couple of grand a year on my students. This year, for instance, I've purchased 70 copies of "To Kill A Mockingbird" I don't "have to" do it but I wanted each kid to have his or her own copy. Some will treasure it, some will trash it. I've purchased everything from mousetrap car kits to DVDs. My wife does it too. I print my own handouts at home, on my paper with my ink; to the tune of many thousands of copies per year. I have about $500 sunk into the Mississippi trip, which is really about teaching our kids about community service. Most teachers I know get their supplies from a number of different sources, including their own wallets. When my wife worked in Trenton, in the urban schools, she brought in shopping bags full of food every week because the kids were hungry, real hungry. They were eating all the science experiments. Interesting thread. I agree with some of it. I took a major cut in pay to teach but I've never been happier. I'd like to see more people teach after spending a career in business and industry. I work with a whole building full of folks like that. There are a lot of folks here in asa who would make great teachers. Scout "Scotty" wrote in message ... Not here they don't. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on supplies that the schools should, but don't supply. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should not have to pay for their own supplies, for example. They don't. |
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Max
Yes, theoretically, teaching is easy; all one needs is good students. Check with Katysails about their recent adventure. Your comment that any reasonably intelligent individual can do makes me wonder why so many above average intelligence people can't. Scout "Maxprop" wrote in message nk.net... "Capt. JG" wrote in message Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. I won't accuse you of being a boy scout, but what a fairy tale. Sadly it doesn't work that way in our society. For example, is a pediatrician ($150K per year) of less value to society than a major league pitcher ($5-15million per year)? Is a college professor ($60K to 200K per year) of less value than a movie producer (up to $200 million per year or more)? People are paid based upon the relative rarity of their abilities. Almost any reasonably intelligent individual can teach high school history, but very few can average 22 points per game in the NBA or knock out two movies every three years that will gross $800 million apiece. Max |
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Maxprop wrote:
Take a look at your own posts, Doug. You are truly the *King* of hurling insults and redundantly proclaiming your opinion to be gospel. Excuse me? I always distinguish between my opinion and fact. Further, when stating my opinions I generally give the observations & experience behind it. You're just PO'd because you always feel like a dumb jerk... and rightly so... when trying to argue with me. DSK |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Well, I said close. Besides, a major league pitcher is much more valued than a doctor, and that says a whole lot about the society. I don't think relative rarity is a good measure either. If that were the case, buggy whip makers would be billionaires. Some of them could make extraordinary buggy whips. Of course Bill Gates can make extraordinarily buggy software... There are a lot of buggy whip shops in my area, Some are quite good at it. -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ |
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"Capt. JG" wrote i Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they actually have time to spend with the kids. Three jobs? Why would they need 3 jobs? When we planned to have kids we decided that Mom would not work till the kids were at least 14 YO. Sure this meant sailing a Mac instead of a Swan, driving a Dodge van instead of a Beemer, but you've got to get your priorities straight. Too many have it the wrong way today. -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ |
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Well, that was going to be my point, you *don't have to* spend
your own money. Seems like the better teachers do. Lisa is constantly buying stuff for 'her kids', and yes, I complain about it, though not strongly. But for standard school supplies, she has a budget from the school. -- Scott Vernon Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ "Scout" wrote in message ... Scotty, I'm not complaining, just clarifying: I usually drop a couple of grand a year on my students. This year, for instance, I've purchased 70 copies of "To Kill A Mockingbird" I don't "have to" do it but I wanted each kid to have his or her own copy. Some will treasure it, some will trash it. I've purchased everything from mousetrap car kits to DVDs. My wife does it too. I print my own handouts at home, on my paper with my ink; to the tune of many thousands of copies per year. I have about $500 sunk into the Mississippi trip, which is really about teaching our kids about community service. Most teachers I know get their supplies from a number of different sources, including their own wallets. When my wife worked in Trenton, in the urban schools, she brought in shopping bags full of food every week because the kids were hungry, real hungry. They were eating all the science experiments. Interesting thread. I agree with some of it. I took a major cut in pay to teach but I've never been happier. I'd like to see more people teach after spending a career in business and industry. I work with a whole building full of folks like that. There are a lot of folks here in asa who would make great teachers. Scout "Scotty" wrote in message ... Not here they don't. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Actually, they do to a large extent. Many teachers spend their own money on supplies that the schools should, but don't supply. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Yes, it will work. You have to give people a living wage that's somewhere close to the value they contribute to society. Teachers should not have to pay for their own supplies, for example. They don't. |
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People make choices. Scott's wife and Scout both
made the choice to teach. From what I've picked up about both of them, they would probably both continue for next to nothing. I made the choice to teach sailing. I do it for next to nothing. In my experience of hiring and managing instructors, the ones who make more demands (wages, benefits, working conditions, etc) are also the least effective instructors. And if I meet one of those demands, there's always another. S. "Scotty" wrote in message ... : : "Capt. JG" wrote i : : Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? : : Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they : actually have : time to spend with the kids. : : : Three jobs? Why would they need 3 jobs? When we planned to have : kids we decided that Mom would not work till the kids were at : least 14 YO. Sure this meant sailing a Mac instead of a Swan, : driving a Dodge van instead of a Beemer, but you've got to get : your priorities straight. : Too many have it the wrong way today. : : : -- : Scott Vernon : Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_ : : |
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Dave wrote:
Doug, despite the fact I generally disagree with you I respect you ability to make a reasonably well-reasoned argument in many cases. Same with Max. But Max is right on this point. The ad hominem attacks detract from otherwise well-articulated arguments, rather than contributing to them. Baloney. You and Max are always calling names because you can't summon any facts or logic to support your statements. Perhaps you believe that my pointing out your errors is the same as insulting you? You simply have repeated this "ad-hominem" stuff so often that you believe it yourself. Now let's see the proof: quote at least three of my insults to you in the past month. Last time I challenged you to do so, you were rather quiet for a few days. DSK |
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Now let's see the proof: quote at least three of my insults
to you in the past month. Dave wrote: My observation was not directed solely, or even primarily, to insults to me, though I could certainly go back and pick out a few if I thought it worth the effort. Translation: Doug doesn't insult people nearly as much as he's accused of, but the people accusing him love to blather on & on & on about it as a distraction from their losing arguments DSK |
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In article ,
Scotty wrote: "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Well, I said close. Besides, a major league pitcher is much more valued than a doctor, and that says a whole lot about the society. I don't think relative rarity is a good measure either. If that were the case, buggy whip makers would be billionaires. Some of them could make extraordinary buggy whips. Of course Bill Gates can make extraordinarily buggy software... There are a lot of buggy whip shops in my area, Some are quite good at it. Exception noted, but they're not billionaires either. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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In article ,
Scotty wrote: "Capt. JG" wrote i Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they actually have time to spend with the kids. Three jobs? Why would they need 3 jobs? When we planned to have kids we decided that Mom would not work till the kids were at least 14 YO. Sure this meant sailing a Mac instead of a Swan, driving a Dodge van instead of a Beemer, but you've got to get your priorities straight. Too many have it the wrong way today. Some people are less fortunate than you by having a job that pays less well than yours. I know a guy with five kids. Both parents work at least two jobs, with my friend having sometimes worked three when his youngest had leukemia and he and his wife had inadequate health insurance. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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There are a lot of buggy whip shops in my area, Some are quite
good at it. Jonathan Ganz wrote: Exception noted, but they're not billionaires either. Of course not. What's the point of whipping a buggy? To get anywhere, you should whip the *horse*. DSK |
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Dave wrote:
Nah. Translation: I feel no need to scurry about trying to deal with such stuff and nonsense. Agreed. Your accusation that I have been insulting & making ad-hominem attacks is nonsense. DSK |
Bye Bye Tookie... ping NotPony
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Bye Bye Tookie... (back to Tookie for a moment)
I just want to add that I was outraged when I heard that there was a
memorial service for that murderer in LA after he was executed. I may be morally opposed to the death penalty, but to honor a convicted murderer who showed no remorse whatsoever, and who was the leader of huge criminal organization, was disrespectful to the people who lost loved ones due to his actions. I find it hard to believe that those doing the memorializing couldn't find a more worthy person in or out of prison. It was an absolutely disgusting display. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message ... On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:00:38 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: "Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 04:40:20 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: Perhaps you simply have no ability to make your points concise and understandable. Of course it's always easier to blame everyone but yourself for the misperception. I never considered that I might have to "dumb down" my posts for you to be able to grasp them. I guess you are among those that the education system has failed to educate. Yeah, right. I understood your premise, but found it erroneously presented. Present your arguments intelligently and you won't become a target. Not even close. Unless you have kids that *want* an education, you're barking up a tree in the wrong forest. The solution must begin at home, where kids have to be instilled with the desire to be educated, and convinced that an education is critical to their future well-being. Of course if their parent(s) is/are clueless to these issues, the kid will be similarly clueless. The state requires the kid to attend school, which he/she hates and wants nothing more than to avoid. It can be the best, most innovative and efficient educational program in existence, but futile if the kid isn't interested. There you go, being small minded, and short sighted again, Jeff. Improve the education system so that successive generations will have more and more chance of being raised by parents that DO have a clue. The cultural rejection of education is self-perpetuating. You can alter and inprove the system until it encompasses the entire GDP and you'll still have a culture of people for whom education means nothing. (Hint: don't read race here--this culture of ignorance crosses racial lines rather nicely) The process must begin at home. We constantly hear how "bright" oriental students are; how they almost universally excel in primary, secondary, and college-level programs. Do you honestly believe they are genetically superior in terms of brilliance and the ability to learn and absorb? The primary difference between them and those who fail the educational process is parental/family motivation. Without that, the whole process is an exercise in futility. Throwing money at education has been tried, and it has failed. Answer this: why, if the system is so broken, do so many excel within the existing one? That's always the best concept, but you've got the methods all wrong. Well, I agree that a better education would not have helped you much, Jeffy. Care to compare advanced degrees? GPAs? Max Good grief! You really ARE a moron. Have no fear, Jeffy. If you continue to bull**** yourself into "not getting it", there's a pretty good chance you never will. Your ignorance will be safe. Thanks, Rudeclod. A personal attack is always a cry of "uncle." Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message Well, you may be right, but one has to fight against the tide, else be drawn along with it. Agreed. I just don't know how to go about it. Throwing money at the problem has proved ineffective. More money is probably needed, but a viable plan should be formulated first. Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they actually have time to spend with the kids. Very true. It is a major problem with the working poor. Something being a prime motivator has only a little to do with making it financially viable for people take on a profession. Are you contending that teaching is not a financially viable profession? Most of the teachers I know earn between $50K and $80K for nine months of work. And their retirement plans are legendary. I don't think raising teacher salaries can be defined realistically as throwing money at a problem. It is if those same teachers are no more effective at higher pay rates than they are a lower ones. I think we would all benefit from knowing the answers. However, just because someone is a single parent does not preclude doing a good job with one's kids. Absolutely, but the statistics demonstrate preponderantly that single-parent families have a substantially higher school drop-out rate than two-parent families. We need to know why that is the case, but whenever we attempt to examine the situation, the PC cops put a stop to it, calling it discrimination. Inner city blacks have a higher drop-out rate, too, but we're not allowed to examine the etiology of that phenomenon either. It's really difficult to prescribe remedies to a problem without understanding the nature of the problem first. Max |
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"Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote i Care to translate your "bandwidth" analogy into English? Not having to have three jobs to make ends meet, so that they actually have time to spend with the kids. Three jobs? Why would they need 3 jobs? When we planned to have kids we decided that Mom would not work till the kids were at least 14 YO. Sure this meant sailing a Mac instead of a Swan, driving a Dodge van instead of a Beemer, but you've got to get your priorities straight. Too many have it the wrong way today. Perhaps you weren't working a $6/hr. job, Scoot. Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message Well, I said close. Besides, a major league pitcher is much more valued than a doctor, and that says a whole lot about the society. Volumes. I don't think relative rarity is a good measure either. If that were the case, buggy whip makers would be billionaires. Some of them could make extraordinary buggy whips. Of course Bill Gates can make extraordinarily buggy software... Um, you missed the point, Jon. Rarity in and of itself is not the point. Rarity in a field of demand is the point. If you are the only maker of buggy whips and everyone drives horse-drawn carriages, you prosper. Today, however . . . Max |
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"Scotty" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... Well, I said close. Besides, a major league pitcher is much more valued than a doctor, and that says a whole lot about the society. I don't think relative rarity is a good measure either. If that were the case, buggy whip makers would be billionaires. Some of them could make extraordinary buggy whips. Of course Bill Gates can make extraordinarily buggy software... There are a lot of buggy whip shops in my area, Some are quite good at it. It's gotta be a lot like those consummate craftsmen who build costly wooden dinghies. They slave endlessly over their creations, lovingly producing watercraft of aesthetically-pleasing lines and textures, building only a few each year. And they all have to plow snow and mow yards to pay the bills. Max |
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"Scout" wrote in message ... Max Yes, theoretically, teaching is easy; all one needs is good students. Check with Katysails about their recent adventure. Your comment that any reasonably intelligent individual can do makes me wonder why so many above average intelligence people can't. Scout Okay, so I was wrong. I should have said *anyone of relatively modest intelligence* can teach. g Max |
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"DSK" wrote in message Maxprop wrote: Take a look at your own posts, Doug. You are truly the *King* of hurling insults and redundantly proclaiming your opinion to be gospel. Excuse me? I always distinguish between my opinion and fact. In which parallel universe is this happening? Certainly not here. Further, when stating my opinions I generally give the observations & experience behind it. *Your* observations and experience? Um, I believe that would still qualify them as opinions. You're just PO'd because you always feel like a dumb jerk... and rightly so... when trying to argue with me. It would be difficult to feel anything but vindicated when debating anyone so blatantly arrogant and self-important. Ad hominem attacks are tantamount to admitting you have no argument; an admission of defeat. When your debate fails, attack the opponent, right? Max |
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"DSK" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: Doug, despite the fact I generally disagree with you I respect you ability to make a reasonably well-reasoned argument in many cases. Same with Max. But Max is right on this point. The ad hominem attacks detract from otherwise well-articulated arguments, rather than contributing to them. Baloney. You and Max are always calling names because you can't summon any facts or logic to support your statements. Perhaps you believe that my pointing out your errors is the same as insulting you? You simply have repeated this "ad-hominem" stuff so often that you believe it yourself. Now let's see the proof: quote at least three of my insults to you in the past month. Last time I challenged you to do so, you were rather quiet for a few days. 12/14 8:35pm to Maxprop: " . . . don't you neo-cons usually dismiss this kind of stuff with a laugh?" 12/19 8:18pm to Dave: "Where you were ridiculed constantly for being so gullible and dumb?" 12?20 6:48pm to Maxprop: "You're just PO'd because you always feel like a dumb jerk . .and rightly so . . .when trying to argue with me." Shall I continue? Max |
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"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... I'm pretty sure Cal has such a program... I'm not sure it's for all level of teacher. I'll ask my friend. You are correct about this point, Jon, but it's not universal. The poorest rural and inner city schools often don't have the resources to provide what some teachers consider mandatory for their classes in terms of supplies. There are good resources--some published by the DOE--detailing just how financially deficient some school systems are in impoverished areas. Some schools don't have enough funds for textbooks for each student, let alone school supplies. But most do. Max |
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"Scotty" wrote in message ... Well, that was going to be my point, you *don't have to* spend your own money. Seems like the better teachers do. Lisa is constantly buying stuff for 'her kids', Dinner, drinks, dancing? Gotta watch those promiscuous 15 year old boys. and yes, I complain about it, Think of it this way--when the dust settles you've got first book and TV mini-series rights. g Max |
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